[Sportstick]

I promised in the "what did you do today" thread to report back on the LCA installation. I am probably suffering from all sorts of bias in making the comparison, but I picked the car up a little over and hour ago and drove home in moderate traffic. But, I am in LCA love. Here are some initial observations:

• I don't sense any change in efforts, although it's possible that maybe a less than 5% increase, but almost invisible, if at all.
• Steering transition is very smooth off-center, not at all "darty".
• But, reaction is instant...the bit of on-center looseness/slop which was there previously is gone.
• In the couple of corners I could take a bit aggressively, the car feels more planted, more solidly digging in to the turn, and in these brief, initial attempts, I think I sense more actual feedback...placebo effect? Don't know yet.

Other than cost, and maybe taking a few miles off the tire life, I can't think of a single performance reason not to do this mod, and I am initially absolutely happy that I did!

I bought the kit from Turner, who was very helpful both before and after the sale. There was some confusion with the little headlamp adjustment rod for my Lighting Package car, but Turner was great in calling my dealer to discuss the installation while my car was still there, and some slight modifications to the headlamp rod installation were made on-site.

All-in-all, a great mod. But, here's the problem. This steering response will now spoil me for anything else I usually drive.

[Dylan86]

Thanks for the feedback, OP. I'm looking forward to installing my Dinan springs, M4 LCA's and camber plates in the new season. This makes me even more excited for spring, as I'm only two week away from our "snow" season

[Sportstick]

Great! Enjoy....here are some photos....

[MrBucket]

Sorry for not getting back to your PM on that for me. I had never actually done the mod myself and I'd been very busy the past few weeks and knew that others on here would be able to help you out.


Also you pictures aren't loading for me.


I sorta did the same upgrade that you did, I've got the same lower control arms now but they came on the car :P

[rich8566]

Can you share the cost of the installation?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by rich8566

Can you share the cost of the installation?

The installation of the actual parts was under labor op S31 (Diagnose/repair front axle) for $520. I'm not sure it actually took 4 hours, but this is the rate for the LCA replacement job.

The 4 wheel alignment (labor op Z51), allowing for the additional 1 degree of negative camber, was $198.

The loaner was free and they took the photos along the way for me. They also did not charge for extra time to work out the issue with the headlamp adjustment rod and consulting with Turner.

I know I likely paid more to have a BMW dealer do the work, but considering such issues as the unforeseen headlamp rod concern, I wanted BMW to be hands-on for the entire job.

Erhard Farmington Hills is a great dealership!

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

The installation of the actual parts was under labor op S31 (Diagnose/repair front axle) for $520. I'm not sure it actually took 4 hours, but this is the rate for the LCA replacement job.

The 4 wheel alignment (labor op Z51), allowing for the additional 1 degree of negative camber, was $198.

The loaner was free and they took the photos along the way for me. They also did not charge for extra time to work out the issue with the headlamp adjustment rod and consulting with Turner.

I know I likely paid more to have a BMW dealer do the work, but considering such issues as the unforeseen headlamp rod concern, I wanted BMW to be hands-on for the entire job.

Erhard Farmington Hills is a great dealership!

damn.... shouldn't take more than an hour really....

only thing they had to do with the rod was to pop the stock ball end and put in one of the ball ends from the M4 rod into the stock rod and reuse the stock rod into to M4 LCA...

Also for $500 I hope they did adjust your headlamp height as the position of the sensor will not be the same as the old one so you need to adjust the height from the white screw on top of the headlight...

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

damn.... shouldn't take more than an hour really....

only thing they had to do with the rod was to pop the stock ball end and put in one of the ball ends from the M4 rod into the stock rod and reuse the stock rod into to M4 LCA...

Also for $500 I hope they did adjust your headlamp height as the position of the sensor will not be the same as the old one so you need to adjust the height from the white screw on top of the headlight...

Yes, the headlamps were set up properly. Labor op timing does not necesssrily reflect the actual time on the clock to do a job...just a reality of almost anything done at a dealership. They provided a quote going in and the final was the same to the dollar so no surprises.

[Tpeterson]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Yes, the headlamps were set up properly. Labor op timing does not necesssrily reflect the actual time on the clock to do a job...just a reality of almost anything done at a dealership. They provided a quote going in and the final was the same to the dollar so no surprises.

What was the reason you didn't purchase the LCA's from the dealership since they're BMW parts? Cost? Usually they like to make some profit on the parts as well as on the labor. I'm surprised they installed customer supplied parts.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Tpeterson

What was the reason you didn't purchase the LCA's from the dealership since they're BMW parts? Cost? Usually they like to make some profit on the parts as well as on the labor. I'm surprised they installed customer supplied parts.

I asked them about that. I noted that Turner had the kit with the supposedly necessary headlamp parts ready for order at favorable pricing. My SA said he installs parts that people bring on a regular basis and it wasn't a concern. For sake of simplicity, rather than having to ask the Parts dept to find everything needed, given some small hardware which did turn out to be part of this job, it was easier at home one night to just order from Turner, and it worked out well. I have bought other parts at the dealer so this was a one time event for them, and they are so accommodating to work with!

PS. Glad to discuss any aspect of this, but am a bit surprised at the greater interest in the cost and process than in the mod itself and how it turned out!

[Tpeterson]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

PS. Glad to discuss any aspect of this, but am a bit surprised at the greater interest in the cost and process than in the mod itself and how it turned out!

For me, I've read enough of the discussions on the suspension sub forum to know it is very good mod. I was more interested in the cost and the installation process because now I can decide whether to spend 1100 or so dollars making it happen.

[rwalker]

did you consider doing the TSes at the same time? if so, why did you decide against?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by rwalker

did you consider doing the TSes at the same time? if so, why did you decide against?

Sorry...please help me with that abbreviation.

[rwalker]

sorry: TS == Tension Strut, the frontmost control arm

doing the F8x lower control arms without also doing the tension struts moves the front wheel forward in the wheel well, reducing clearance to the fender, and introducing lateral stress on the inner LCA bushing, this is because the stock TS is meaningfully shorter than the F8x TS

there's a fair amount of discussion in the F2x and F3x Suspension and Brakes forums, if you look at where I've been posting you can find 'em

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by rwalker

sorry: TS == Tension Strut, the frontmost control arm

doing the F8x lower control arms without also doing the tension struts moves the front wheel forward in the wheel well, reducing clearance to the fender, and introducing lateral stress on the inner LCA bushing, this is because the stock TS is meaningfully shorter than the F8x TS

there's a fair amount of discussion in the F2x and F3x Suspension and Brakes forums, if you look at where I've been posting you can find 'em

Thanks...very interesting from what I just read. Tension struts never came up when talking with Turner, so I must admit this is new information to me. What do you think the implications are for a car which is street only....never sees a track? The change in wheel position must be somewhat subtle, as I did not observe it visually. I did note some comments that the required spacers do deteriorate ride comfort, which will be a non-starter at my house (she has an Audi A6 daily driver and already thinks my car is a bit too "sporty"). Thanks in advance.

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Thanks...very interesting from what I just read. Tension struts never came up when talking with Turner, so I must admit this is new information to me. What do you think the implications are for a car which is street only....never sees a track? The change in wheel position must be somewhat subtle, as I did not observe it visually. I did note some comments that the required spacers do deteriorate ride comfort, which will be a non-starter at my house (she has an Audi A6 daily driver and already thinks my car is a bit too "sporty"). Thanks in advance.

I think the only implication of skipping the TSes on a street car would be potentially accelerated wear of the inner LCA bushing. I say "potentially", but I think the probability is pretty low. I tracked LCAs without TSes for over a year and saw no ill effects (I run DOT tires at the track). Pparana runs slicks and saw his LCAs migrating up the bushing.

[allthatisntnow]

I concur: street tyres, street usage, you won't suffer any problems running LCAs only. The stresses slicks and track use put on the control arms (and the car in general) is a whole other ball game. Just do an annual visual inspection of the LCA - subframe bushing if it concerns you. If the bushing wears out or displaces to a major degree, you'll be able to feel it anyway.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by rwalker

I think the only implication of skipping the TSes on a street car would be potentially accelerated wear of the inner LCA bushing. I say "potentially", but I think the probability is pretty low. I tracked LCAs without TSes for over a year and saw no ill effects (I run DOT tires at the track). Pparana runs slicks and saw his LCAs migrating up the bushing.

Originally Posted by allthatisntnow

I concur: street tyres, street usage, you won't suffer any problems running LCAs only. The stresses slicks and track use put on the control arms (and the car in general) is a whole other ball game. Just do an annual visual inspection of the LCA - subframe bushing if it concerns you. If the bushing wears out or displaces to a major degree, you'll be able to feel it anyway.

Thanks to both of you for your counsel...will have taking a look at it be a part of the annual maintenance.

[rich8566]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I asked them about that. I noted that Turner had the kit with the supposedly necessary headlamp parts ready for order at favorable pricing. My SA said he installs parts that people bring on a regular basis and it wasn't a concern. For sake of simplicity, rather than having to ask the Parts dept to find everything needed, given some small hardware which did turn out to be part of this job, it was easier at home one night to just order from Turner, and it worked out well. I have bought other parts at the dealer so this was a one time event for them, and they are so accommodating to work with!

PS. Glad to discuss any aspect of this, but am a bit surprised at the greater interest in the cost and process than in the mod itself and how it turned out!

Thanks for sharing the cost info. The benefit of the conversion is crystal clear. Sorry, but sometimes this stuff turns into a bit of a cost/benefit analysis.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by rich8566

...The benefit of the conversion is crystal clear...

Yes, a few days in, the car, as good as it was, feels like it has even more "come to life". When I look for reasons to change lanes just to twitch the wheel, you know the steering feels a lot better! And, it really digs into corners...somewhat surprised this isn't the geometry on anything short of an M2/M3/M4 given how great it feels.

[Tpeterson]

Originally Posted by rich8566

Thanks for sharing the cost info. The benefit of the conversion is crystal clear. Sorry, but sometimes this stuff turns into a bit of a cost/benefit analysis.

Much more succinct than what I posted!