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      07-17-2014, 12:32 PM   #1
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M235i vs EB Mustang ...?

Ford finally released the HP & TQ figures for the new s550 based 2015 Mustangs.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/show...ower-2501.html


The similarities between the EB (EcoBoost) and the M235i are too obvious, not to cross shop.

2.3L EcoBoost -- 310 HP / 320 LB-FT (on 93 octane)
Twin-scroll turbo
Compression ratio: 10.5:1
Manual curb weight: 3532 lbs
Automatic curb weight: 3524 lbs



5.0L V8
435 HP / 400 LB-FT (on 93 octane)
Compression ratio: 11:1
Manual curb weight: 3705 lbs (+87 lbs over 2014 S197)
Automatic curb weight: 3729 lbs (+54 lbs over 2014 S197)





The 2015 Mustang EcoBoost performance package also includes:

Front brakes: Four-piston, 46-millimeter fixed aluminum calipers with 352-millimeter rotors
Rear brakes: Single-piston, 45-millimeter floating iron calipers with 330-millimeter rotors
19x9-inch alloy wheels with Pirelli 255/40R19 Y-speed-rated tires front and rear
3.55:1 final drive ratio



The 2015 Mustang GT performance package includes:

Front brakes: Brembo six-piston, 36-millimeter fixed aluminum calipers with 380-millimeter rotors
Rear brakes: Single-piston, 45-millimeter floating iron calipers with 330-millimeter rotors
19x9-inch alloy wheels with Pirelli 255/40R19 Y-speed-rated tires, front; 19x9.5-inch alloy wheels with Pirelli 275/40R19 Y-speed-rated tires, rear
Strut tower brace
3.73:1 final drive ratio with Torsen differential
Unique front splitter to channel cooling air to the front brakes




*NOTE*
Understand, this is a comparison thread (vs), to discuss the virtues of each. This is NOT a thread asking if you like the new Mustang, but the virtues of each of these machines.
Secondly, we all know the Ford won't have the level of luxury, as BMW. That is nothing new & why it is considerably cheaper.


Last edited by w3rkn; 07-19-2014 at 11:14 PM..
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      07-17-2014, 12:37 PM   #2
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I don't see how someone would cross shop these. Maybe on performance, but it stops there. Two totally difference kind of cars in my opinion.
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      07-17-2014, 12:45 PM   #3
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i can see some people trying to decide between the 2 but in my opinion 2 different cars and i would pick the 235 any day.
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      07-17-2014, 01:14 PM   #4
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Any Mustang GT holdouts?
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      07-17-2014, 03:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post

2.3L EcoBoost -- 310 HP / 320 LB-FT (on 93 octane)
Twin-scroll turbo—the first ever used on a Ford
Compression ratio: 10.5:1
Manual curb weight: 3532 lbs
Automatic curb weight: 3524 lbs
The numbers on 2.3L Mustang sound good on paper, but you might want to wait until some full road tests are completed by the major automotive magazines. Beyond that, one is a Ford and the other is a BMW. I've owned a lot of brands over the years, including Ford products. My new M235i is far and away the best car I've ever owned.

Besides, there are way too many Mustangs on the road.
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      07-17-2014, 04:14 PM   #6
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Mustangs are American Muscle. Anyone who gets the EB or a 6 banger is not getting true American Muscle. It's kinda like kissing your sister or drinking light beer.

Still, the EB seems like it'll be cool but it's just not the same. I was disappointed to see the GT add 200#, but only and 10/15 hp/tq. It's still a wait and drive before I order a GT or 235i.
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      07-17-2014, 05:56 PM   #7
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Any Mustang GT holdouts?
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      07-17-2014, 10:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperzulu View Post
eh... that^ was closed about 2 weeks ago...



First, the s550 based Mustang is 100% new.
So, those who are trying to knock it, will look very ignorant come release. There is enough information to easily understand what this s550 is.

Secondly, the s550 based Mustang did not gain 200lbs, but only 87lbs. But take a look at the EB's weight (3,532lbs), compare it to the M235i. How much weight did the 2-series gain, over the 1-series..?

Thirdly, the EB Mustang is $14,000 less than the M235i and comes with a LSD.. which actually makes it nearly $18k less. (How many upgrades can you buy for a Mustang for $15k... )

Forth, If you want MORE, you can always get the V8 GT w/Performance pack for $37k... which will have 100 horsepower more than the M235i.



I can sense many of you have not invested enough time researching the new s550. I was never a Mustang fan, never cared about a Mustang, would never drive a Mustang... that is why I paid $52k for a BMW 135is.

But..

Quote:
Horsepower Unleashed – Motivating the All-New Ford Mustang with Improved Power-to-Weight Ratios

5.0-liter V8 headlines all-new Ford Mustang lineup with 435 horsepower and 400 lb.-ft. of torque and improved power-to-weight ratio

New 2.3-liter EcoBoost® brings turbocharging and direct injection to Mustang with 310 horsepower and 320 lb.-ft. of torque – best-ever power density from a Ford engine.

Manual transmission provides smoother shifting than previous Mustangs; automatic transmission features steering wheel-mounted paddle shifters and downshift rev-matching.

The all-new 2015 Ford Mustang offers three great engines including a standard 300-horsepower V6, a brand-new 310-horsepower EcoBoost® or an upgraded 435-horsepower V8. Each powerplant is available with either a manual or automatic transmission that makes the pony car a great all-around performer – no matter how the equipment is mixed and matched to suit any individual driving style.

The fewer the pounds a car carries for every unit of horsepower generated by the engine, the quicker and nimbler it feels, making power-to-weight ratio a key measure of performance. A recent study by Autoblog of cars currently available in the U.S. market puts Mustang at the top of the charts in power-to-weight ratio for all three price categories a customer can specify.

Mustang extends its lead further for 2015 with the EcoBoost-powered fastback now carrying fewer than 11.4 pounds per horsepower; Mustang GT has as few as 8.52 pounds per horsepower.

Less is more, EcoBoost comes to Mustang
The addition of a new 2.3-liter EcoBoost engine brings turbocharging to the Mustang powertrain lineup. This engine was designed specifically for Mustang, to meet the needs of drivers looking for outstanding performance and fuel efficiency.

The geometry of the EcoBoost intake manifold and turbocharger housing has been optimized to provide better breathing and higher output in Mustang. Producing 310 horsepower and 320 lb.-ft. of torque, the 2.3-liter EcoBoost engine fits the bill for a true Mustang powerplant – with the highest power density yet from a Ford engine.

“This EcoBoost engine delivers the healthy output Mustang drivers expect, regardless of the car’s speed,” said Scott Makowski, EcoBoost powertrain engineering manager. “It delivers where a Mustang driver expects it to – with a broad, flat torque curve and great driveability under any conditions.”

The newest member of Ford’s global EcoBoost engine family, the 2.3-liter continues to take advantage of state-of-the-art technologies including direct fuel injection, twin independent variable camshaft timing and turbocharging to produce big-engine power and torque with improved fuel efficiency.

The 2.3-liter EcoBoost is the first Ford engine to use a low-inertia twin-scroll turbocharger that provides quicker boost response while enabling lower emissions and improved efficiency. The cylinder head features an integrated exhaust manifold that separates the inner and outer pairs of cylinders into each of the two inlet passages to the turbo.
Keeping the exhaust pulses separated from the next cylinder in the firing order virtually eliminates mixing losses and maximizes the pulse energy to the turbine wheel. The result is similar performance to a more complex twin-turbocharger configuration, meaning quicker turbine spin-up and torque delivery when the driver needs it for passing maneuvers.

The separated exhaust ports also enable the exhaust valves to stay open longer for reduced pumping losses that improve specific fuel consumption compared to a single-scroll turbocharger configuration.

With a compact mill generating nearly 135 horsepower per liter and more than 139 lb.-ft. of torque per liter – powering a performance car whose drivers are more inclined to use it – ensuring engine durability was critical. Enhancements to the Mustang EcoBoost engine to withstand the added stresses include:

Forged-steel crankshaft
Piston-cooling jets
Steel piston ring carriers
Premium bearing materials
Upgraded valve seat materials
Forged-steel connecting rods
High-pressure die-cast aluminum cylinder block with ladder-frame bearing caps
Deep-sump, die-cast aluminum oil pan
The beating heart of a pony
No Ford Mustang engine lineup would be complete without a great V8 engine at its core. The 5.0-liter V8 powers into a new generation with a host of upgrades that help it breathe better, especially at higher engine speeds. Many of these changes are derived from lessons learned in developing the special-edition 2012 Mustang Boss 302.
Getting air into the cylinders and exhaust out is key to generating more power and torque from any engine. That has been the focus in the development of this V8, which features:

Larger intake valves
Larger exhaust valves
Revised intake camshafts
Revised exhaust camshafts
Stiffer valve springs ensure valves close completely at high rpm
New cylinder head casting – revised ports provide straighter path to the valves for less restrictive intake and exhaust flow; combustion chamber modifications accommodate larger valves
Sinter forged connecting rods are lighter and more durable for high-rpm operation
Redesigned piston tops – deeper cutouts clear the new larger valves
Rebalanced forged crankshaft to support higher-rpm operation
These upgrades have boosted output of the V8 to 435 horsepower and 400 lb.-ft. of torque.

A new intake manifold includes charge motion control valves to partially close off port flow at lower engine speeds. This increases the air charge tumble and swirl for improved air-fuel mixing, resulting in better fuel economy, improved idle stability and lower emissions.

The variable camshaft timing on the intake side now has a greater range of adjustment available thanks to mid-lock phasers. This enables better optimized control of the valve timing over a broader range of engine speeds and loads for improved fuel economy and emissions.

Shifting gears
More than most drivers, Mustang owners like to take control and shift for themselves. Whether they select a fully manual gearbox or the updated automatic transmission, the experience will be better than in any previous pony.

The manual has a new shift linkage design for easier engagement and improved precision. The shift lever is now positioned closer to the driver and away from the cupholders, creating a clear path for shifting.

Mustang blends outstanding all-around performance and everyday usability. Drivers who prefer to let the car handle the shifting during their daily work run, but who still want to take control when the roads get twisty, will appreciate the new steering wheel-mounted shift paddles with rev-matching downshifts – now standard with the SelectShift® six-speed automatic transmission.

The automatic also features a redesigned case with cast-in ribs that help make it stiffer and reduce weight. Internally, clutches are optimized and operating temperature increased to reduce friction. The output shaft is now supported by a ball bearing that enables a top speed of 155 mph for Mustang GT.

With a choice of powertrains to suit driving preferences and lifestyles, the new Mustang has cutting-edge technology under the hood to match its modern design. Yet regardless of engine choice, the car remains quintessentially Mustang.


I see the M235i & EB Mustang as EXACT competitors. I am waiting patiently for the M2, but the vids of the Mustang GT350 are mind blowing.. I don't think the Mustang GT and the BMW M235i are even in the same league performance wise. ANd it still remains to be seen about the fit & finish of the car. But I've seen & touched the new interior at a cruise and those materials are no less than My 135is. So..


Also, for every red-blooded human: (GT350 vs M4 ..?)
For every read blooded human: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2084XOt-Sj4



There should be a M235i vs sub-forum..


.
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      07-17-2014, 10:58 PM   #9
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Many say that 135i materials were very inferior. It is not a case with 235i, totally redone.
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      07-17-2014, 11:07 PM   #10
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I don't care if Mustangs had 1,500 HP and cost $20,000 less than a M235i. I would take the M235i without blinking any day of the week.
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      07-17-2014, 11:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
eh... that^ was closed about 2 weeks ago...



First, the s550 based Mustang is 100% new.
So, those who are trying to knock it, will look very ignorant come release. There is enough information to easily understand what this s550 is.

Secondly, the s550 based Mustang did not gain 200lbs, but only 87lbs. But take a look at the EB's weight (3,532lbs), compare it to the M235i. How much weight did the 2-series gain, over the 1-series..?

Thirdly, the EB Mustang is $14,000 less than the M235i and comes with a LSD.. which actually makes it nearly $18k less. (How many upgrades can you buy for a Mustang for $15k... )

Forth, If you want MORE, you can always get the V8 GT w/Performance pack for $37k... which will have 100 horsepower more than the M235i.



I can sense many of you have not invested enough time researching the new s550. I was never a Mustang fan, never cared about a Mustang, would never drive a Mustang... that is why I paid $52k for a BMW 135is.

But..





I see the M235i & EB Mustang as EXACT competitors. I am waiting patiently for the M2, but the vids of the Mustang GT350 are mind blowing.. I don't think the Mustang GT and the BMW M235i are even in the same league performance wise. ANd it still remains to be seen about the fit & finish of the car. But I've seen & touched the new interior at a cruise and those materials are no less than My 135is. So..


Also, for every red-blooded human: (GT350 vs M4 ..?)
For every read blooded human:




There should be a M235i vs sub-forum..


.
I knew your name was familiar from M6G (<- oppo). Two more vids of the GT350.

Best part in this one is 00:46-00:54. That exhaust is perfect imo.


Best part here is also around the same timestamp starting around 00:48. That thing keeps winding out... I wonder what that mule's redline is.
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      07-17-2014, 11:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patbrass View Post
I don't care if Mustangs had 1,500 HP and cost $20,000 less than a M235i. I would take the M235i without blinking any day of the week.
What he said.

Have owned Fords before. No thanks.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101444215
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      07-18-2014, 12:25 AM   #13
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It's pretty much the same answer I give to question "what do you think about the new Corvette?". It looks nice on the sheet, video, etc. but being Chevrolet (Ford in Mustang case), something will go wrong and I will be disappointed. It's sad that most of American cars companies have forgotten how to make a proper car.
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      07-18-2014, 12:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeomatic
Quote:
Originally Posted by patbrass View Post
I don't care if Mustangs had 1,500 HP and cost $20,000 less than a M235i. I would take the M235i without blinking any day of the week.
What he said.

Have owned Fords before. No thanks.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101444215" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.cnbc.com/.../101444215</a>" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://<a href="http...444215</a></a>" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://<a href="http...15</a></a></a>
By the way, i considered Tesla S, and test driven it before getting M235i. That car can not rank 99 out of 100, at least for a price/value reason. While most of car industry is reasonably priced, Tesla is ridiculously overpriced, just because there is no competition. For company having such a huge profit margin on their product I would already drop at least 10 points. There is no great designer hand in it too, looks like an average car on a street, nissan or jaguar. But the price tag is over a $100k.
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      07-18-2014, 01:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeryBadman View Post
It's pretty much the same answer I give to question "what do you think about the new Corvette?". It looks nice on the sheet, video, etc. but being Chevrolet (Ford in Mustang case), something will go wrong and I will be disappointed. It's sad that most of American cars companies have forgotten how to make a proper car.
That's interesting because I'm going from a C6 'Vette to a 228i. Never had an issue and it's very inexpensive to maintain and upgrade. But it was just too much car for the street--so much unusable [legally/safely] performance. Might've sprung for a C7 but that's even more overkill. Drove the 300 hp Mustang V-6 for a week and was very impressed, just not willing to spend the buck$ they wanted for it. My biggest issue with BMW is all the negative press about reliability, but the 4-year free maintenance helped me get over that. Had a European car once and it cost a ton to maintain. Hardly spent a nickel on all my American and Japanese cars I've owned since. Was waiting for the Mustang but got completely blindsided by the 228i, a car that wasn't even on my shopping radar, because it's the best balanced car I've driven in nearly 10 years. Picking it up Saturday with crossed fingers and an optimistic outlook.

Last edited by Daddycat; 07-18-2014 at 01:23 AM..
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      07-18-2014, 02:37 AM   #16
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The 2 models can be compared somehow, but the concept is so different that is difficult to see them as direct rivals. At least from an European perspective
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      07-18-2014, 08:41 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeomatic View Post
What he said.

Have owned Fords before. No thanks.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101444215
Yep. Same. Multiple fords of different vehicle varieties. Will never take another Ford, not even for free.

Also, note in that link that the M235i later got 98/100 just behind Tesla. Two of the best scoring cars ever.
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      07-18-2014, 10:28 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
eh... that^ was closed about 2 weeks ago...
I don't care. Same crap will be said in this thread as was in THAT thread.
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      07-18-2014, 12:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperzulu View Post
I don't care. Same crap will be said in this thread as was in THAT thread.
I get it.. you a supremacist, right?
With no ability to discuss or debate, right..? Totally afraid of an open discussion.. or, most likely just a BMW whore?



Again, 100% new, so previous opinion are moot.

Since you haven't bothered to educate yourself, you've rendered yourself moot, your opinion moot. That is how logic works... don't thread-crap plz, this is an open discussion about the virtues of each car... related to each other.

Additionally, I own a 2013 BMW 135is, (my 3rd).. it's lighter than your M235i.. and quicker..

So, I don't care where you are coming from, you have to respect a respectable car. The old mustang wasn't an even comparison, because of the live rear axil and over-all design. But that has changed, & so has the focus of this new breed of Mustang.


If you can't counter, rebuttal, or simply discuss the virtues of each car, know that we understand your ploy.




Vlads & Pat, why can't they be compared..?
Or, is it that typically nobody would compare a Ford to a BMW.. and odd that many of us are now..?

I can bet the GT350 and the M4 will be compared and tested against each other.. so why can't a Mustang with less engine be compared to a M235i..?


Honestly, I just think this s550 caught everyone off-guard and people still trying to internalize what they are seeing. Mulally said BMW is going to have a fight on their hands... looks like he wasn't kidding.
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      07-18-2014, 12:29 PM   #20
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The last thread was directly discussing the NEW 2015 Mustang. Did you read it? Your thread will add NOTHING new. THAT is my point. You are starting another thread asking the opinions that have already been discussed! YOUR STUPID THREAD IS STUPID!
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      07-18-2014, 12:31 PM   #21
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Video posted of a quick ride in the new 2.3 & 5.0 Mustangs.

That 2.3 sounds pretty good... (no where near as good as a 135is..)

And the 5.0 sounds great, even though he never gets on it..




Last edited by w3rkn; 07-18-2014 at 12:39 PM..
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      07-18-2014, 12:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperzulu View Post
The last thread was directly discussing the NEW 2015 Mustang. Did you read it? Your thread will add NOTHING new. THAT is my point. You are starting another thread asking the opinions that have already been discussed! YOUR STUPID THREAD IS STUPID!
Poor child... that thread was closed, how are you unable to grasp that.



Secondly, Ford released Horsepower & weight figures yesterday.. the exact reason I started this thread, since we now know what the Mustang is packing, and what it weighs. So now it can be legitimately compared to other cars.



HERE, so you can not plead ignorance:

3.7L V6
300 HP / 280 LB-FT (on 93 octane) (down from 305 HP of 2014 S197)
Compression ratio: 10.5:1
Manual curb weight: 3526 lbs (+30 lbs increase over 2014 S197)
Automatic curb weight: 3530 lbs (+12 lbs increase over 2014 S197)

2.3L EcoBoost -- 310 HP / 320 LB-FT (on 93 octane)
Twin-scroll turbo
Compression ratio: 10.5:1
Manual curb weight: 3532 lbs
Automatic curb weight: 3524 lbs

5.0L V8
435 HP / 400 LB-FT (on 93 octane) (up from 420 HP / 390 LB-FT of 2014 S197)
Compression ratio: 11:1
Manual curb weight: 3705 lbs (+87 lbs over 2014 S197)
Automatic curb weight: 3729 lbs (+54 lbs over 2014 S197)


What does the M235i weigh...?
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