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      05-11-2018, 10:13 AM   #45
capt_and
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Originally Posted by Erebus View Post
Which model did you go with? It looks like either the RT4000WX or RT4009... did you go with standard or wide?
I went with the 4009W. The wide makes it great for driving around town since there is enough space to be comfortable. I think the standard would probably be better for track use but I couldn't really move around.
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      05-14-2018, 09:04 AM   #46
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Went out to MSR Cresson for the SCCA TT this last Saturday on the 1.7 mile CCW track. I wound up placing 2nd in the Street Touring 2 class and I believe I was about 0.3 seconds off of the winner.

Brakes did not hold up at all. The brakes went soft and lost stopping power. We bled the brakes but that didn't seem to help. He then did a full flush which did help a little but the brakes still felt spongy. After the last session, I check on the pads and they crumbled! Keep in mind these are supposed to be high temperature endurance pads that operate up to 2000*F.

The seats were great and definitely did their job. The combination of seats, harnesses, and HANs took some getting used to. The HANs made it pretty tough to turn my head on some sharp turns. I am not totally used to it yet so lots more seat time is needed to make the adjustment.
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      05-14-2018, 09:32 AM   #47
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^ That's never fun to experience anywhere, let alone on the track! What was your lap time?
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      05-14-2018, 09:36 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by cxp213 View Post
^ That's never fun to experience anywhere, let alone on the track! What event was this? What was your lap time?
It was coming into rattlesnake when the brakes gave! The best I could do for the day was a 1:26.01 (as recorded by my laptimer). The official results aren't posted yet so it could be off by a little.
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      05-14-2018, 10:20 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by capt_and View Post
It was coming into rattlesnake when the brakes gave! The best I could do for the day was a 1:26.01 (as recorded by my laptimer). The official results aren't posted yet so it could be off by a little.
That's still a very good time; guess all those mods you recently did are helping quite a bit (and seat time too)!

Per the entry list, looks Armstrong was your only real competition in your class. He's a good driver and a really nice guy. He and I used to battle it out when I used to autox/track more. With the mods on your car (and considering it's a STU build), you should get faster with a bit more seat time.

BTW, car looks good! Not sure if you've seen or know about Lightspeed Images, but he attends a lot of events and posts pictures:
https://www.lightspeedimages.com/Tex...rials-5-12-18/
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      05-14-2018, 10:46 AM   #50
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Looks like your pads were letting the rotors' heat get into your fluid, resulting in the spongy pedal. The brake duct kit you're going to install may make a noticeable difference in how long your pads hold up.

All pads give up sooner or later, each one in its own way. Hawk's HT10s, for example, begin to break up at 1/2 thickness and should be replaced at that time. At 18mm, the OEM pads' thickness isn't very great, which doesn't help.

Too bad the AP kit isn't out yet - one of those along with a brake duct kit would erase brakes from your list of things to be concerned about.
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      05-14-2018, 10:48 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by cxp213 View Post
That's still a very good time; guess all those mods you recently did are helping quite a bit (and seat time too)!

Per the entry list, looks Armstrong was your only real competition in your class. He's a good driver and a really nice guy. He and I used to battle it out when I used to autox/track more. With the mods on your car (and considering it's a STU build), you should get faster with a bit more seat time.

BTW, car looks good! Not sure if you've seen or know about Lightspeed Images, but he attends a lot of events and posts pictures:
https://www.lightspeedimages.com/Tex...rials-5-12-18/
You got it, Armstrong won the class. Yes, the set up is amazing. The key aspect in this build is to only do things as I outgrew the items. Some people don't like hearing that but their business model seems to be centered around making people go fast with the fewest mods possible and on stock power. I have the LSD, coilovers, camber plates, pads, wheels/tires - basic run of the mill stuff you see on all of the cars out on the track. What really makes the difference in my opinion is how the car is set up with those components. There are so many variables and minor adjustments that make a huge difference.

You are right about the need for more seat time, I think I can break 1:25 in the near term on this set up... And good weather .

There is one project coming up that isn't a need but is going to be a lot of fun. I have decided to do the m235iR widebody kit and we have it on order.
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      05-14-2018, 11:06 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by capt_and View Post
You got it, Armstrong won the class. Yes, the set up is amazing. The key aspect in this build is to only do things as I outgrew the items. All of which was guided by Texas Track Works. Forrest really has no issue with telling people that they don't need something or aren't ready for it. Some people don't like hearing that but their business model seems to be centered around making people go fast with the fewest mods possible and on stock power. I have the LSD, coilovers, camber plates, pads, wheels/tires - basic run of the mill stuff you see on all of the cars out on the track. What really makes the difference in my opinion is how the car is set up with those components. There are so many variables and minor adjustments that make a huge difference.

You are right about the need for more seat time, I think I can break 1:25 in the near term on this set up... And good weather .

There is one project coming up that isn't a need but is going to be a lot of fun. I have decided to do the m235iR widebody kit and we have it on order.
That's going to be a nice addition to your current list of mods!

Just curious, do you have a M2 or on the way? Your info says "week 33 MY18 M2" so just wondering.
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      05-14-2018, 11:13 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
Looks like your pads were letting the rotors' heat get into your fluid, resulting in the spongy pedal. The brake duct kit you're going to install may make a noticeable difference in how long your pads hold up.

All pads give up sooner or later, each one in its own way. Hawk's HT10s, for example, begin to break up at 1/2 thickness and should be replaced at that time. At 18mm, the OEM pads' thickness isn't very great, which doesn't help.

Too bad the AP kit isn't out yet - one of those along with a brake duct kit would erase brakes from your list of things to be concerned about.
That was the 3rd weekend on those pads, they should've lasted a lot longer.
The guys at TTW aren't huge believers in BBKs but I am going to have them consider the Stoptech Trophy Rs up front. I think that with the cooling should definitely close the book on brakes, aside from the foot controlling them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cxp213 View Post
That's going to be a nice addition to your current list of mods!

Just curious, do you have a M2 or on the way? Your info says "week 33 MY18 M2" so just wondering.
Oops, I had one on order last year and decided to go in a different direction. Totally forgot to change it.
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      05-14-2018, 10:11 PM   #54
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Those pads look terrifying!
Cool track build, would love to do something similar with my 2 series in the future.
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      05-15-2018, 09:08 PM   #55
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Quote:
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...they should've lasted a lot longer.
That's just it - we take our experience and use it to judge how we should move forward. IOW, there is no "should have" - please believe this.
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      05-16-2018, 08:44 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
That's just it - we take our experience and use it to judge how we should move forward. IOW, there is no "should have" - please believe this.
What pads are you running? What types of events/skill level are you? It sounds like you've done some trial and error, maybe you can steer me in the right direction. I had the Carbotech XP12 up front and blew through them quickly. The most recent set was the Carbotech XP24 which is supposed to be their high temp endurance pads. We are using Motul 600 and have had to flush twice in 3 weekends.
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      05-16-2018, 09:24 AM   #57
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I'll chime in here too, as I'm more concerned about your 'expectations' then your pads, which imho (based only off photos) crumbled because they were way passed worn out... there is no really simple equation that you should get X number of hours out of a pad. how long your pads will last depend on many factors, track, setup, weight, how you drive, etc. And given your setup, tracks and noted time around msrc you are on the aggressive side of all those. Just as an example I've seen miata's, which can weigh over 1000lbs less and have over 200 less hp, blow through endurance pads in as little as 9 hours but also last over 24... why? it just depends on all the factors listed above. Lessoned learned, check, check, check, fluids, tires, brakes, etc. Last thing you want is your brakes to not function to expectation when 3 cars unexpectedly check up in front of you when you are doing 100+.

Otherwise cool build... don't let this discourage you but use it as a lesson learned and have fun! and most importantly take comments, like mine, from internet forums with a small grain of salt. No matter what I tell you, you really have no idea what my experience is or if what I'm saying holds value :-).
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      05-16-2018, 11:09 AM   #58
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What pads are you running...
PM sent.
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      05-16-2018, 09:06 PM   #59
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PM sent.
Why is this a secret?
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      05-17-2018, 09:34 AM   #60
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Why is this a secret?
probably trying to sell him hawks
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      05-17-2018, 05:06 PM   #61
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Why is this a secret?
Good question. It's not a secret, but it was a very long message that would have taken the OP's post off-topic.

The short answer is that I ran Hawk DTC-60s in my last track car, and that pads are very much a personal thing. Ask ten fast drivers (not necessarily in fast cars, mind you, but drivers who are getting the most out of their setups), and you may well find them running ten different pads. Different drivers have different preferences for initial bite and modulation and release characteristics. The last thing I would suggest is "Go get some DTC-60s because they worked very well for me."

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probably trying to sell him hawks
Now don't be that way!
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      05-17-2018, 08:49 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
Good question. It's not a secret, but it was a very long message that would have taken the OP's post off-topic.

The short answer is that I ran Hawk DTC-60s in my last track car, and that pads are very much a personal thing. Ask ten fast drivers (not necessarily in fast cars, mind you, but drivers who are getting the most out of their setups), and you may well find them running ten different pads. Different drivers have different preferences for initial bite and modulation and release characteristics. The last thing I would suggest is "Go get some DTC-60s because they worked very well for me."


Now don't be that way!
^this.

I am going to go back out this weekend to test out some carbotech xp20 and PFC 11.
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      05-17-2018, 10:39 PM   #63
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I liked DTC-60s.
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      05-18-2018, 05:23 PM   #64
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I liked DTC-60s.
Sorry nothing against hawks it was just the first brand that came to mind

That said I usually use Glocs (Carbotech's bastard son) or Pagid
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      06-13-2018, 12:06 PM   #65
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UPDATE:

We went to Hallett for the NASA event this last weekend. The car did pretty well. There were of couple of complaints:

1. I bought a new helmet - Stilo ST5 with built in communications. This muffled the sound of the car to the point where I was mis-shifting because I couldn't hear the car. I will need to explore the muffler delete option.

2. During my lesson with a pro coach, he pointed out that the Ohlins didn't have enough damping for the spring rates on the car. (We increased from spring rate to 550lb) This causes the car to hop on hard turns. When the dampers get warm, the problem is exacerbated. Friday's test and tune was when I set my best time - temperature was in the low 80s. On Saturday and Sunday, it got up to 96* outside and the damping caused me to lose as much as 1 second on my time. I originally thought it was the tires overheating but after reviewing the data, there was a turn where the hopping was unsettling the car so much that it cost me 8mph on the exit.

3. Brake calipers were rebuilt (pistons and seals had to be replaced - the pistons were completely warped) but towards the end of Sunday, the pedal got soft on me again. I chose to sit out the last two sessions.

So, what's next? Stoptech ST brakes will be installed this week. Next week will be starting the process to have the m235iR widebody, wing, brake ducts, 18x10" wheels, and anti-rollbar installed. We are exploring options on the shocks - MCS or JRZ. The Ohlins make a great street and occasional track suspension but I am asking too much of them.

What this means is that I will have two sets of wheels, Ohlins, and brand new PFC 11 front pads up for sale soon.
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      06-13-2018, 12:43 PM   #66
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We are exploring options on the shocks - MCS or JRZ.
I've run JRZ 2-ways and Moton 3-ways (the people at MCS were formerly with Moton). Either will solve your problem while being a much better shock.

Have you been able to install brake ducts yet?

I know you don't have time to wait around, but Essex Parts says they may have a kit in their Radi-CAL line in the next couple of months. I offered them the car I'm picking up next week to use for measuring - no response yet, but I'll be following up with them.
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