[champignon]

Originally Posted by wdc330i

Maybe consider a 235i/240 AWD to replace your 135 coupe and Golf R.

I will never buy an AT car, any AT car, unless literally forced to do so. If they sold the 240ix in a 6MT version for the USA, I would very likely do exactly what you are suggesting, I've actually thought about that.

On the Golf R forums which I seldom read anymore, there were many 6MT vs. DSG threads, and proponents claim that the DSG is a way better automatic transmission than the 6MT is a manual. This may all be well and good, but I never would have even considered buying a Golf R if it did not come in a MT version.

There are just so many interesting cars out there that come only with an Automatic Transmission, that I have never considered buying. If I were to decide to get an AT vehicle, I'd spend some months surveying what is out there, and I really doubt that I would be buying any 2-Series car if that was what I was looking at.

But thanks for the suggestion, it is very rational.

[Drtsk]

Plus, 6 cars for one person is a bit over the top, and 7 would just be wholly ridiculous . . . . . :-)[/QUOTE]

And I thought I had too many cars!
I’ve seen lots of guys with 3+ 911s, but your the first person I’ve come across with 3 1series.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Drtsk

Plus, 6 cars for one person is a bit over the top, and 7 would just be wholly ridiculous . . . . . :-)

And I thought I had too many cars!
I’ve seen lots of guys with 3+ 911s, but your the first person I’ve come across with 3 1series.

I'm not a huge Porsche fan, even though I do have a 2003 996 TT.

The 1M really shouldn't be thrown in with the other 2, it is a unique vehicle, as the M2 is when compared to the rest of the 2-Series.

The 135is convertible is a really unique and cool car. There were slightly more than 40 of the 135is convertibles with 6MT that were produced, and mine, with a black exterior and red interior, is one of only 3 in the whole production run. That doesn't make it valuable, but it is a really cool car, and then you throw in the other mods that came with the "is" and it is really special. It was essentially brand new when I bought it at 2 years of age, 40% off of the original MSRP.

The 135i coupe was my sort of personal re-engaging with the brand, as it reminded me of my all-time favorite vehicle of the past, back when I only owned 1 car, which was a 1993 325i sedan bought new and which I owned for 10 years. The cars drive very similarly other than for the fact that the 135i has about twice as much power.

But I will probably go ahead when I have an opportunity to buy a base M2 at a good price, and trade the coupe in on it, so I won't have 3 of these cars for long.

[Drtsk]

Originally Posted by champignon

No one who cared about performance or ride in their 1-Series car left the run crap tires on the car for any longer than they needed to. All three of my 1-Series cars got brand new tires as soon as I could get them mounted after receiving the used cars (the 1M because the tires were old and worn out, and the others because I could not tolerate the run-craps). All three of these cars have newish MPSS, which aren't all that expensive and its an easy fix to the crap tires that were supplied on the 135i, 135is, and 128i.

So yes, positively, if someone bought a 1-Series and kept the run craps on it, then that's +1 for any 2-Series that came with regular summer sports tires. Otherwise, you can easily have staggered MPSS or whatever you want, on a 1 or a 2-Series car.

I'm really not trying to convince myself of anything, trust me. My 135is convertible is a long term keeper and I bought it as such 2 years ago with ~6000 miles on it. My 1M is obviously a keeper. I haven't been looking at regular 2-series cars, but I have interest in them since I'm interested in BMWs in general, and because I will probably buy an M2 in the near term. When I do buy the M2, I will trade in my 135i coupe, and I will use the M2 just as I use the 135i Coupe now; as a year round car for which I will buy snow tires.

I will trade in the 135i Coupe because it is my least remarkable/least useful car, although very much fun to drive. My Golf R is way more useful being as it has AWD, but way less fun to drive than the 135i. Unfortunately, I need to have *one* practical vehicle, so the R stays. If I had parking for an additional car, I would keep the 135i coupe, but I don't, so it's the logical car to go, not because I don't like it, but because I will not have anywhere to garage it.

Plus, 6 cars for one person is a bit over the top, and 7 would just be wholly ridiculous . . . . . :-)

You sound like a BMW guy through and through.
Your 996TT is special, even though it’s under appropriated in the Porsche community.
I have couple 911 myself, 11’ 997.2 gets coupe, 14’ 991.1 c2s cab.
I want to get a 2007 GT3, but my wife me to get 1M. She says, it reminds her of the e30 325i calypso red we use to date in.
Btw, all my cars are MT. So I am in agreement with u about auto vs manual.
The big overpowered auto Bmws are my wife’s. And DCT is auto to me!

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Drtsk

You sound like a BMW guy through and through.
Your 996TT is special, even though it’s under appropriated in the Porsche community.
I have couple 911 myself, 11’ 997.2 gets coupe, 14’ 991.1 c2s cab.
I want to get a 2007 GT3, but my wife me to get 1M. She says, it reminds her of the e30 325i calypso red we use to date in.
Btw, all my cars are MT. So I am in agreement with u about auto vs manual.
The big overpowered auto Bmws are my wife’s. And DCT is auto to me!

Power in small sporty cars like these is highly over-rated; once you get much over 300 hp, you can't really do anything with it unless you track the car. My 996 TT was sold to me with a software tune, so it makes 500 hp. What this means is that if you want to make yourself or your passenger throw up, you have the power to do so. But from a practical standpoint, if I compare the 996 TT to my most "under-powered" car, which is my 2000 Z3M Coupe with the "lowly" S52 engine, which makes only 240 hp, there really isn't that much difference.

I drive a lot on two lane roads in the mountains. When I have to pass a snail, does it really matter much if it takes me 3.2 seconds in the Z3M Coupe, vs. 2.7 seconds in the 996 Twin Turbo?

My personal opinion is that in a small sporty car weighing under 3500 lbs, 350 hp is about as much as you can use, and 300 is more than adequate. The rest is all about handling.

[Drtsk]

Originally Posted by champignon

Power in small sporty cars like these is highly over-rated; once you get much over 300 hp, you can't really do anything with it unless you track the car. My 996 TT was sold to me with a software tune, so it makes 500 hp. What this means is that if you want to make yourself or your passenger throw up, you have the power to do so. But from a practical standpoint, if I compare the 996 TT to my most "under-powered" car, which is my 2000 Z3M Coupe with the "lowly" S52 engine, which makes only 240 hp, there really isn't that much difference.

I drive a lot on two lane roads in the mountains. When I have to pass a snail, does it really matter much if it takes me 3.2 seconds in the Z3M Coupe, vs. 2.7 seconds in the 996 Twin Turbo?

My personal opinion is that in a small sporty car weighing under 3500 lbs, 350 hp is about as much as you can use, and 300 is more than adequate. The rest is all about handling.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.
This is the reason for my love for bmw and Porsche of the past.
When I see a evo, WRX Sti, focus RS, 135 and e9x with funky racing stickers on the window or license frame on the road in my 911, I avoid eye contact. I figure they will destroy me with their 500+ hp stage x tune cars. I make sure to go extra slow.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Drtsk

Couldn’t have said it better myself.
This is the reason for my love for bmw and Porsche of the past.
When I see a evo, WRX Sti, focus RS, 135 and e9x with funky racing stickers on the window or license frame on the road in my 911, I avoid eye contact. I figure they will destroy me with their 500+ hp stage x tune cars. I make sure to go extra slow.

The "hot hatch" genre of cars is exploding, and it's where the action is for people who are interested in MT cars. Unfortunately, almost all of them are "boy racer" cars, with the sole exception of the Golf R, which is very sedate in comparison. Wish it were not true, but the Golf R isn't all that much fun to drive. It has enough power, it does come in a MT option, and the AWD makes it very functional for use in sloppy weather. On the other hand it is biased towards being a FWD car, the electric steering is middling, and it has "clinical" feel to it, sort of like eating broccoli so that you can move on to dessert. The other cars in this group (Focus, Honda Civic R, the Ford, the STi) are likely more fun to drive but the trade off is that they are no fun to be in, and they look like they should be driven by the teenager who mows your lawn.

I guess we should be glad that some manufacturers are trying to keep the tradition of "fun in driving" alive, although the current class offerings don't offer much of interest to anyone older than say, 32.

[jordantii]

I have been a BMW owner since I was 18, i'm 50 now. My entire driving life has been in BMW's. from my first 2002 (had 7), 1600, bavaria, to the CS Coupe, M3, M5's, 335, 135, race cars and now the 235. I was also involed on Professional Motorsports for several years and got to work with Auberlin, Hand, Turner, Fall Line, and Rahal-Letterman. I am a BMW guy for sure.

So in regards to the M235 being superior to the 135, everything has been improved. The rear axle is better located, the Adaptive suspension, the power upgrade and delivery. the ZF8 is an insanely great AT gearbox. Dimesionaly like an e46. Better ride, grip and acceleration. This was the sleeper BMW snuck into the market like the 330 zhp.

When I was deciding on my next car I saw the Motor Trend M235 test with Randy Pobst. He really liked the car. So I gave him a call (I worked with Randy for a full season in World Challenge) to get his impression and feedback regarding the M235. We spoke for about 10 minutes and after that call, I went and bought one. He was spot on.

So in my opinion as an overall "street car" the M235 is superior to the 135. don't get me wrong, I loved my 135 it was a great fun car. But, then M235 is just better for me.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by jordantii

I have been a BMW owner since I was 18, i'm 50 now. My entire driving life has been in BMW's. from my first 2002 (had 7), 1600, bavaria, to the CS Coupe, M3, M5's, 335, 135, race cars and now the 235. I was also involed on Professional Motorsports for several years and got to work with Auberlin, Hand, Turner, Fall Line, and Rahal-Letterman. I am a BMW guy for sure.

So in regards to the M235 being superior to the 135, everything has been improved. The rear axle is better located, the Adaptive suspension, the power upgrade and delivery. the ZF8 is an insanely great AT gearbox. Dimesionaly like an e46. Better ride, grip and acceleration. This was the sleeper BMW snuck into the market like the 330 zhp.

When I was deciding on my next car I saw the Motor Trend M235 test with Randy Pobst. He really liked the car. So I gave him a call (I worked with Randy for a full season in World Challenge) to get his impression and feedback regarding the M235. We spoke for about 10 minutes and after that call, I went and bought one. He was spot on.

So in my opinion as an overall "street car" the M235 is superior to the 135. don't get me wrong, I loved my 135 it was a great fun car. But, then M235 is just better for me.

Randy Probst hated the 1M, if my memory serves, which put him at odds with just about everyone else out there reviewing cars. I'm sure his opinions are worth consulting, just that needs to be taken into consideration.

It sounds like a lot of your preference for the M235i is based on what you see as improvements in the automatic transmission, which would of course be of primary importance to people selecting an automatic.

My Golf R has DCC, or "dynamic chassis control," which is a tunable sort of adaptive suspension. I liked it at first, and I do like being able to go between a more punishing suspension to one that is more comfortable for longer distance driving, but on the whole I like the suspension I have in my 135i coupe just as well or better.

[Drtsk]

Thank you everyone for the advice.
I’ve found one locally (BMW of Silver Spring).
It is a MG 240i with 6MT. I’m going to test drive it this Saturday.
I will keep an open mind since I have no loyalty to one model?
If all goes well, it may be on my driveway by next week.
In the meantime, I’m going to continue my due diligence on 2addict.
One can never have too much info!
I welcome more suggestions.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by Drtsk

Thank you everyone for the advice.
I’ve found one locally (BMW of Silver Spring).
It is a MG 240i with 6MT. I’m going to test drive it this Saturday.
I will keep an open mind since I have no loyalty to one model?
If all goes well, it may be on my driveway by next week.
In the meantime, I’m going to continue my due diligence on 2addict.
One can never have too much info!
I welcome more suggestions.

Report back after your test drive! You're lucky to have found a 6MT to test out.

[Drtsk]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Report back after your test drive! You're lucky to have found a 6MT to test out.

They actually have a 230i at bmw of Alexandria in 6MT. Unfortunately it does not have Msport or track handling package. No sense in test driving something I am not going to buy.

[champignon]

Good luck and give us your impressions, whatever you decide to do.

[Drtsk]

Originally Posted by champignon

Good luck and give us your impressions, whatever you decide to do.

Will do.

[Ron Jeffries]

Today the temperature exceeded 15C (60F) so obviously I put the M240i's top down. Had a nice winding road to drive home on, and the miles are finally above 2000, so I feel I can get on it a bit. Sport mode on.

The M240i is xDrive and 8AT. The 135is was DCT. I think I've got a good sense of how they compare.

The 135is is more "raw", more sports car, while the M240i is more refined, more GT. However, there's no doubt in my mind that the M240i is faster and does better on the road than the 135is. On a track? I don't know but I think my money would be on the M240i. It has more power, more torque, and with the adaptive suspension and xDrive, I think it can use it better.

The 135is had a wonderful snarl, and the MPE on the M240i is deeper, more refined, and not quite as loud. I am hoping it'll get louder with a few more miles on it. If not, I may have to take a chance on mid-pipe or some other solution. Or learn to act my age.

I miss the DCT most of all. The 8AT is great but it is discernibly an automatic and the DCT is discernibly a real transmission.

As for the 6MT, well, that's up to you. I wouldn't go that way myself because day in and day out it wouldn't add enough fun for my taste.

Anyway bottom line, I think the 135is is more fun on its best days, and the M240i is more fun on good, average, and poor days. I expect it will result in more total fun over the course of the year.

[jordantii]

Originally Posted by champignon

Randy Probst hated the 1M, if my memory serves, which put him at odds with just about everyone else out there reviewing cars. I'm sure his opinions are worth consulting, just that needs to be taken into consideration.

It sounds like a lot of your preference for the M235i is based on what you see as improvements in the automatic transmission, which would of course be of primary importance to people selecting an automatic.

My Golf R has DCC, or "dynamic chassis control," which is a tunable sort of adaptive suspension. I liked it at first, and I do like being able to go between a more punishing suspension to one that is more comfortable for longer distance driving, but on the whole I like the suspension I have in my 135i coupe just as well or better.

Well, This is my second AT out of over 30 cars I have owned. It was a decision I made considering the amount of street driving I now do and living in FL. We don't have many corners. The ZF8 changed the game in the AT world. Yeah it's not engaging like a manual. But I have made enough heel and toe downshifts in my life to know what is ultimately faster. I remember picking up Jeff Altenburg up at the airport in my Lotus and when approaching a corner I made a HT downshift, Jeff looked over and said nice. I didn't even think about it. I was just a habit. The AT suits my current needs. And quite frankly is fun as hell in Sport+.

As far as Randy goes, I will listen to a guy who has won the 24 of Daytona twice and multiple World Challenge championships. I too have an extensive track and racing/teaching background. I also worked with a ton of Data Acquisition so I understand what the numbers mean. I loved my 135 6sp. But I know that I would be faster on track in a 235i. Randy liked the 1M, he did not like it's inability to but power down on corner exit.

The 135's rear axle is just poorly located and required M3 bushing to make it right. The shorter wheelbase effects stability and rotation and I could never get low enough in the car. I would say the brakes felt better due to softer pads. So bite was there but the 235 ultimately has more brake torque deeper into the breaking zone. So initial confidence is lacking. Bite gives a false sense of security if you ask me. Modulation rules the day. I'm sure I could go on about more of the two cars dynamics but whats the point??

There was a ton of hype around the 1M. Limited, what BMW should be doing, agreesive looks etc. That all plays into it. And the 1M vs 135 is not a contest. They do not compare dynamically. And dynamics is what any driver is looking for. How does the car perform? How does it transition? How easy it it to manage the weight which ultimately tranmslates into grip? This is what I am interested in along with what I am going to use the car for, its intended purpose.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by jordantii

Well, This is my second AT out of over 30 cars I have owned. It was a decision I made considering the amount of street driving I now do and living in FL. We don't have many corners. The ZF8 changed the game in the AT world. Yeah it's not engaging like a manual. But I have made enough heel and toe downshifts in my life to kniow what is ultimately faster. I remember picking up Jeff Altenburg up at the airport in my Lotus and when approaching a corner I made a HT downshift, Jeff looked over and said nice. I didn't even think about it. I was just a habit. The AT suits my current needs. And quite frankly is fun as hell in Sport+.

As far as Randy goes, I will listen to a guy who has one the 24 of Daytona twice and multiple World Challenge championships. I too have an extensive track and racing/teaching background. I also worked with a ton of Data Acquisition so I understand what the numbers mean. I loved my 135 6sp. But I know that I would be faster on track in a 235i.

The 135's rear axle is just poorly located and required M3 bushing to make it right. The shorter wheelbase effects stability and rotation and I could never get low enough in the car. I would say the brakes felt better due to softer pads. So bite what there but the 235 ultimately more brake torque deeper into the breaking zone. So initial confidence is lacking. Bite gives a false sense of security if you ask me. Modulation rules the day. I'm sure I could go on about more of the two cars dynamics but whats the point??

There was a ton of hype around the 1M. Limited, what BMW should be doing, agreesive looks etc. That all plays into it. And the 1M vs 135 is not a contest. They do not compare dynamically.And dynamics is what any driver is looking for. How does the car perform? How does it transition? How easy it it to manage the weight which ultimately tranmslates into grip? This is what I am interested in along with what I am going to use the car for, its intended purpose.

If I bought street cars for their intended purpose, I'd own one or two, not 6, and one would be a minivan, and the other an SUV, or a truck :-)

A race car driver's opinion of a street vehicle, is not necessarily worth any more than the opinion of an experienced automotive journalist, or even just a random car enthusiast with enough experience driving a wide range of passenger vehicles. It doesn't matter how many races the race car driver has won, his skill set is not necessarily the skill set that would tell regular car drivers what they will enjoy driving. I don't track cars, and I doubt that more than 5% of the people on the 1 & 2 Series boards (including the 1M and M2) track their vehicles. Of those who do track, they don't necessarily track these (1&2's) cars, they may have a dedicated track car.

You obviously know Mr. Probst well enough to conclude that his opinion of a car would be similar to yours, and that's great. I didn't know Robert Parker, but I did ultimately get to know his taste well enough to know when I should consider it in wine purchasing decisions, and when I should not, depending on the type of wine being evaluated, the vintage year, and the phase of the moon :-)

Anyway, there is no substitute for actually driving a car before deciding if you like it. I have bought a few cars without test driving them, based solely on reviews and reading enthusiast boards. In some cases I really liked the cars, and in some cases I did not, after the thrill of having the car wore off.

I suspect that the M2 is objectively a superior vehicle to a 1M, if one goes only by measurable parameters, yet a number of experienced automotive people have voted with their feet and purchased a 1M, when they could have bought an M2. Similarly, I would be surprised if a random 2-Series vehicle didn't score higher on metrics vs. its corresponding 1-Series car. That doesn't make the 2-Series vehicle more satisfying or fun to drive in the eyes of a random person testing both of them.

When winemakers know what the critics are looking for in their scoring systems, they design their wines to score higher, ergo the "Parker effect," especially in California, Chateauneuf-du-Pape, and in Bordeaux. I would be very surprised if BMW and every other performance car maker did not design their cars with the intent of scoring higher on measurable metrics that critics and others will use. That's just intelligent marketing.

None of this says that the M2 is more fun to drive than an E46 M3, even though the M2 has benefitted from more than 10 years of further experience in materials, car manufacturing, and racing.

So, my summary statement is that someone else's opinion of what car is going to please someone else is only worth so much; there is no substitute for going out and test driving whatever it is that you are considering driving, and then drawing your own, personal, conclusions.

[jordantii]

Originally Posted by champignon

If I bought street cars for their intended purpose, I'd own one or two, not 6, and one would be a minivan, and the other an SUV, or a truck :-)

A race car driver's opinion of a street vehicle, is not necessarily worth any more than the opinion of an experienced automotive journalist, or even just a random car enthusiast with enough experience driving a wide range of passenger vehicles. It doesn't matter how many races the race car driver has won, his skill set is not necessarily the skill set that would tell regular car drivers what they will enjoy driving. I don't track cars, and I doubt that more than 5% of the people on the 1 & 2 Series boards (including the 1M and M2) track their vehicles. Of those who do track, they don't necessarily track these (1&2's) cars, they may have a dedicated track car.

You obviously know Mr. Probst well enough to conclude that his opinion of a car would be similar to yours, and that's great. I didn't know Robert Parker, but I did ultimately get to know his taste well enough to know when I should consider it in wine purchasing decisions, and when I should not, depending on the type of wine being evaluated, the vintage year, and the phase of the moon :-)

Anyway, there is no substitute for actually driving a car before deciding if you like it. I have bought a few cars without test driving them, based solely on reviews and reading enthusiast boards. In some cases I really liked the cars, and in some cases I did not, after the thrill of having the car wore off.

I suspect that the M2 is objectively a superior vehicle to a 1M, if one goes only by measurable parameters, yet a number of experienced automotive people have voted with their feet and purchased a 1M, when they could have bought an M2. Similarly, I would be surprised if a random 2-Series vehicle didn't score higher on metrics vs. its corresponding 1-Series car. That doesn't make the 2-Series vehicle more satisfying or fun to drive in the eyes of a random person testing both of them.

When winemakers know what the critics are looking for in their scoring systems, they design their wines to score higher, ergo the "Parker effect," especially in California, Chateauneuf-du-Pape, and in Bordeaux. I would be very surprised if BMW and every other performance car maker did not design their cars with the intent of scoring higher on measurable metrics that critics and others will use. That's just intelligent marketing.

None of this says that the M2 is more fun to drive than an E46 M3, even though the M2 has benefitted from more than 10 years of further experience in materials, car manufacturing, and racing.

So, my summary statement is that someone else's opinion of what car is going to please someone else is only worth so much; there is no substitute for going out and test driving whatever it is that you are considering driving, and then drawing your own, personal, conclusions.

I get what your saying and there is a lot of truth to it. Different types of buyers come to different conclusions. The older a car gets the more romantic we can get about the car. I loved my first 2002tii. It was the greatest car I ever owned, until I bought my 88 m3. That became the greatest car I ever owned. Then the Lotus and the list goes on.

And all I was stating was how I go about my purchasing. I do value a Pro drivers opinion on vehicle dynamics over a journalist. I ran a high performance driving school for 3 years. and I would only employ actual race car drvers as instructors as opposed to someone without racing experience. They just know more and have situational awareness based on experience. And comparing wine to cars is a bit of a stretch. That is a matter of taste. Taste does have a role in driving a car. Certain people like certain things. I get that but at what sacrifice? Now we are talking about feel, which can be quite subjective. Either way both cars are fantastic. To each his own.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by jordantii

I get what your saying and there is a lot of truth to it. Different types of buyers come to different conclusions. The older a car gets the more romantic we can get about the car. I loved my first 2002tii. It was the greatest car I ever owned, until I bought my 88 m3. That became the greatest car I ever owned. Then the Lotus and the list goes on.

And all I was stating was how I go about my purchasing. I do value a Pro drivers opinion on vehicle dynamics over a journalist. I ran a high performance driving school for 3 years. and I would only employ actual race car drvers as instructors as opposed to someone without racing experience. They just know more and have situational awareness based on experience. And comparing wine to cars is a bit of a stretch. That is a matter of taste. Taste does have a role in driving a car. Certain people like certain things. I get that but at what sacrifice? Now we are talking about feel, which can be quite subjective. Either way both cars are fantastic. To each his own.

I appreciate your opinion and it is obviously a valid opinion.

The similarity between wine and cars is that no one in their right mind spends ~$50K on a car for purely functional reasons, when $20K or less will get you as much "functionality and practicality." Ergo, no one in their right mind spends $50 or $500 or $5000 for a bottle of wine, when $20 might get something that is drinkable, and has as much health benefits (and detriments) as the more expensive bottle.

These kinds of car purchases are something we do out of passion and for pleasure, as is that bottle of Lafite Rothschild you decided that you just had to have :-)

So, there is no "need" for this kind of car, it is a want, and as a want and a passion the criteria for buying it are largely subjective. I have a couple of older cars in my stable, a 2003 Porsche 996 TT, and a 2000 Z3M Coupe. Neither are very practical or modern, and like your 2002 tii, I would not want to have to drive them regularly nor would I want to drive them at all unless I happened to want that sort of vintage car experience, which I do want from time to time but not most of the time.

A BMW sports sedan/coupe is for many people going to be a weekend or summer car; they have an SUV or (god forbid) a Camry for the rest of the time. So, they should buy what they imagine to fill that "want" deep in their soul, whatever that want is for!!

[jordantii]

Originally Posted by champignon

I appreciate your opinion and it is obviously a valid opinion.

The similarity between wine and cars is that no one in their right mind spends ~$50K on a car for purely functional reasons, when $20K or less will get you as much "functionality and practicality." Ergo, no one in their right mind spends $50 or $500 or $5000 for a bottle of wine, when $20 might get something that is drinkable, and has as much health benefits (and detriments) as the more expensive bottle.

These kinds of car purchases are something we do out of passion and for pleasure, as is that bottle of Lafite Rothschild you decided that you just had to have :-)

So, there is no "need" for this kind of car, it is a want, and as a want and a passion the criteria for buying it are largely subjective. I have a couple of older cars in my stable, a 2003 Porsche 996 TT, and a 2000 Z3M Coupe. Neither are very practical or modern, and like your 2002 tii, I would not want to have to drive them regularly nor would I want to drive them at all unless I happened to want that sort of vintage car experience, which I do want from time to time but not most of the time.

A BMW sports sedan/coupe is for many people going to be a weekend or summer car; they have an SUV or (god forbid) a Camry for the rest of the time. So, they should buy what they imagine to fill that "want" deep in their soul, whatever that want is for!!

You know, I have to agree with you on this. Well said and true. There are compromises that we have to make. And I think my point was that as an overall street car the M235i is a great choice. Oh and I was given 6 bottles of Lafite Rothschild as a gift from Edgar Winter along with some Hine Antique and a few cohibas. Who knew he would be into that???

Best to you.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by jordantii

You know, I have to agree with you on this. Well said and true. There are compromises that we have to make. And I think my point was that as an overall street car the M235i is a great choice. Oh and I was given 6 bottles of Lafite Rothschild as a gift from Edgar Winter along with some Hine Antique and a few cohibas. Who knew he would be into that???

Best to you.

Which vintage?

:-)

[wdc330i]

That Hine is good stuff, too.