THE LARGEST BMW 2-SERIES FORUM ON THE PLANET
2Addicts
2Addicts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum LSD and M brakes custom exhaust

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-26-2014, 11:24 AM   #133
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
4462
Rep
9,160
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

I don't know why I'm wading into this stupid discussion, but just to try to interject a modicum of logic in here, the E46 M3 was indeed $49k base in 2006, but that's still $57.4k in today's money, using a conservative 2% inflation rate. Use 3%, which is closer to what the EU has seen, and it would be $62k. Further, we won't see the M2 until at the earliest, next year, so you should account for another year or two of inflation for that too.
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2014, 11:41 AM   #134
ska///235i
***** noob
ska///235i's Avatar
United_States
1354
Rep
10,479
Posts

Drives: 325xi>M235i>428GCx Mspor
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston

iTrader: (34)

Garage List
2006 325xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer4life24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi View Post
Where are you getting your info from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi View Post
Ok buddy, we're not talking about e46 pricing.
Did you not ask me where I got my info from?

My point is the M3...or M4 now...has evolved into a higher class model since 2008, replacing the E46 M3. Therefore, BMW will not lose that E46 market so they will replace it with the M2 (market in similar price range).

THE M2 IS NOT A HIGHER CLASS CAR THAN THE E46 M3 PERIOD.

But to be honest, if a lot more people talk like you here thinking of a high price tag, your just giving BMW an excuse to overprice their cars some more.
Sorry not to argue with you but i just cant agree with your thinking.

When I ask where you got your info from, I was talking about the m235i going to be replaced with a 4 cylinder 235tii (thats what you told me) and you seem to have a source on the low M2 pricing.

Anyways, if you believe the M2 will price under $50k then thats fine...its just hard to believe by many of us here on this board
__________________
2006 325xi (Sold)
2014 M235I (Current)
2015 428xi Gran Coupe (STB)
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2014, 11:49 AM   #135
ska///235i
***** noob
ska///235i's Avatar
United_States
1354
Rep
10,479
Posts

Drives: 325xi>M235i>428GCx Mspor
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston

iTrader: (34)

Garage List
2006 325xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread
I don't know why I'm wading into this stupid discussion, but just to try to interject a modicum of logic in here, the E46 M3 was indeed $49k base in 2006, but that's still $57.4k in today's money, using a conservative 2% inflation rate. Use 3%, which is closer to what the EU has seen, and it would be $62k. Further, we won't see the M2 until at the earliest, next year, so you should account for another year or two of inflation for that too.
Totally agree

The M235i is already a replacement of the e46 m3. The M2 is a level above and my guess it'll be at least in the mid $50k+
__________________
2006 325xi (Sold)
2014 M235I (Current)
2015 428xi Gran Coupe (STB)
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2014, 12:00 PM   #136
bimmer4life24
Lieutenant
bimmer4life24's Avatar
United_States
266
Rep
505
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2 Comp
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I don't know why I'm wading into this stupid discussion, but just to try to interject a modicum of logic in here, the E46 M3 was indeed $49k base in 2006, but that's still $57.4k in today's money, using a conservative 2% inflation rate. Use 3%, which is closer to what the EU has seen, and it would be $62k. Further, we won't see the M2 until at the earliest, next year, so you should account for another year or two of inflation for that too.
I'm done discussing the potential price of the M2. Now we're up to $57.4k for it I just hope BMW does not look at this for an excuse to increase their price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi View Post
Sorry not to argue with you but i just cant agree with your thinking.

When I ask where you got your info from, I was talking about the m235i going to be replaced with a 4 cylinder 235tii (thats what you told me) and you seem to have a source on the low M2 pricing.

Anyways, if you believe the M2 will price under $50k then thats fine...its just hard to believe by many of us here on this board
Supposedly, that is what SCOTT said. Although I do not trust him, multiple sources have said the M235i will be replaced when the M2 comes out. It only makes sense to make the 235 with a high powered 4 cylinder as that is what all other manufactures are doing.
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2014, 12:15 PM   #137
BEM-S4
Major General
BEM-S4's Avatar
United_States
4515
Rep
8,942
Posts

Drives: Dinan M235, Dinan Sport Wagon
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (5)

Assuming the M235 does go 4-cyl (not opining on that argument) you guys think the 6 will command a premium in the preowned market? Thinking about when Audi went from NA 8 to turbo 6 in the S5.
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2014, 01:13 PM   #138
bernstem
Private First Class
bernstem's Avatar
United_States
40
Rep
185
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis

iTrader: (0)

If the 235 goes to a 4 cyl, the value of the current 6 cyl will depend on the quality of the new engine.
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2014, 06:46 PM   #139
bladeomatic
Lieutenant
bladeomatic's Avatar
United_States
115
Rep
418
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Frankly, the original cost of *anything* from 2008 is not pertinent…inflation or otherwise.
It's market baby…supply and demand. If Subaru gets a nicer, more civilized approach on their WRX and removes that piano bench from the trunk, they could upend this entire segment with a much lower price.

Just read an article (Car and Driver?) that said the "base" price of the m4 was going to be about $65k. Doing a little deductive reasoning here….

It seems to me that BMW likes to stagger the tiers/prices of their cars such that if you fully load a model, it rises over the base cost of the next higher model. (see 328 vs 335). Try this out on the their website and see. This is intended to get folks to notice how close they are to a slightly superior car and just bite the bullet, and move up a notch.

I think M cars are put (intentionally) a bit further out of reach from their non-M brethren (Fully twisted 335i is around $61k, base m4 is supposed to start around $65k).

It also seems to me that if you max out the options on many models, it can add about 20-30% to the base cost.
Example: M235i base: $43.1k, Loaded: $53.5, (~20%). Base vs. loaded 335i is about 30%.

That said, in order for an M2 to be slightly over the max of an M235i (cuz it's an M) and yet still have plenty of option room before it kisses against the base of an M3/4, I would guess that it will start with a base near $55k and option up over $65k.

Any takers?
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2014, 06:49 PM   #140
ska///235i
***** noob
ska///235i's Avatar
United_States
1354
Rep
10,479
Posts

Drives: 325xi>M235i>428GCx Mspor
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston

iTrader: (34)

Garage List
2006 325xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeomatic
Frankly, the original cost of *anything* from 2008 is not pertinent…inflation or otherwise.
It's market baby…supply and demand. If Subaru gets a nicer, more civilized approach on their WRX and removes that piano bench from the trunk, they could upend this entire segment with a much lower price.

Just read an article (Car and Driver?) that said the "base" price of the m4 was going to be about $65k. Doing a little deductive reasoning here….

It seems to me that BMW likes to stagger the tiers/prices of their cars such that if you fully load a model, it rises over the base cost of the next higher model. (see 328 vs 335). Try this out on the their website and see. This is intended to get folks to notice how close they are to a slightly superior car and just bite the bullet, and move up a notch.

I think M cars are put (intentionally) a bit further out of reach from their non-M brethren (Fully twisted 335i is around $61k, base m4 is supposed to start around $65k).

It also seems to me that if you max out the options on many models, it can add about 20-30% to the base cost.
Example: M235i base: $43.1k, Loaded: $53.5, (~20%). Base vs. loaded 335i is about 30%.

That said, in order for an M2 to be slightly over the max of an M235i (cuz it's an M) and yet still have plenty of option room before it kisses against the base of an M3/4, I would guess that it will start with a base near $55k and option up over $65k.

Any takers?
+1000
__________________
2006 325xi (Sold)
2014 M235I (Current)
2015 428xi Gran Coupe (STB)
Appreciate 0
      03-27-2014, 01:29 AM   #141
bimmer4life24
Lieutenant
bimmer4life24's Avatar
United_States
266
Rep
505
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2 Comp
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeomatic View Post
Frankly, the original cost of *anything* from 2008 is not pertinent…inflation or otherwise.
It's market baby…supply and demand. If Subaru gets a nicer, more civilized approach on their WRX and removes that piano bench from the trunk, they could upend this entire segment with a much lower price.

Just read an article (Car and Driver?) that said the "base" price of the m4 was going to be about $65k. Doing a little deductive reasoning here….

It seems to me that BMW likes to stagger the tiers/prices of their cars such that if you fully load a model, it rises over the base cost of the next higher model. (see 328 vs 335). Try this out on the their website and see. This is intended to get folks to notice how close they are to a slightly superior car and just bite the bullet, and move up a notch.

I think M cars are put (intentionally) a bit further out of reach from their non-M brethren (Fully twisted 335i is around $61k, base m4 is supposed to start around $65k).

It also seems to me that if you max out the options on many models, it can add about 20-30% to the base cost.
Example: M235i base: $43.1k, Loaded: $53.5, (~20%). Base vs. loaded 335i is about 30%.

That said, in order for an M2 to be slightly over the max of an M235i (cuz it's an M) and yet still have plenty of option room before it kisses against the base of an M3/4, I would guess that it will start with a base near $55k and option up over $65k.

Any takers?
Agree with everything you said except the M3 is starting at $62k and you're forgetting the M235i will stop production when M2 is around. There will be a regular 235i that should cost less. Maybe base around $41k? (I believe the 135i was around $40k).

Using your logic, with the M3 at $62k base, a fully loaded M2 would be no higher than $61k. Subtract the $10k in upgrades, that gives you $51k. It makes sense if you look at it from a marketing standpoint which is the number 1 thing that people here are overlooking.

These numbers would target every market:
228i - $32k-$42k
235i - $41k-$51k
M2 - $51k-$61k
M3/4 - $63-$80K
M5 - +$92K

M235i is a car that is between the potential 235i (135i) and M2.
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2014, 05:45 PM   #142
ska///235i
***** noob
ska///235i's Avatar
United_States
1354
Rep
10,479
Posts

Drives: 325xi>M235i>428GCx Mspor
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston

iTrader: (34)

Garage List
2006 325xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer4life24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi View Post
Theres no way an M2 with only cost $5k more than the M235. Knowing BMW, they will not do that.

It will be price below the M3 and above the 1M...should be in line with the rest of the real M models
Why do you think BMW will make the M2 cost drastically more than the 1M and E46 M3? I mean even the initial E92 M3 was $56k with a V8.

M2 will be the new generation E46 M3 that appeals to BMWs young market. Mid 50s would steer that market away to other manufactures. You have to also look at it from a marketing standpoint.

Plus, remember the M235i will be gone when the M2 arrives. It will be replaced by a 235i or "tii" as others have noted with a 4 cylinder. The price tag on that will more than likely be dropped to around $41k (where the 135i was). Now your looking at a $9k difference for the M2.

$49,900 with destination! Mark it!
http://m.leftlanenews.com/bmw-m2.html
__________________
2006 325xi (Sold)
2014 M235I (Current)
2015 428xi Gran Coupe (STB)
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2014, 10:59 PM   #143
RPM90
Major General
890
Rep
7,047
Posts

Drives: 340i M-sport AT
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer4life24 View Post
Agree with everything you said except the M3 is starting at $62k and you're forgetting the M235i will stop production when M2 is around. There will be a regular 235i that should cost less. Maybe base around $41k? (I believe the 135i was around $40k).

Using your logic, with the M3 at $62k base, a fully loaded M2 would be no higher than $61k. Subtract the $10k in upgrades, that gives you $51k. It makes sense if you look at it from a marketing standpoint which is the number 1 thing that people here are overlooking.

These numbers would target every market:
228i - $32k-$42k
235i - $41k-$51k
M2 - $51k-$61k
M3/4 - $63-$80K
M5 - +$92K

M235i is a car that is between the potential 235i (135i) and M2.
Can you please point me to where you read the M235i will be dropped when the M2 arrives?
I'm genuinely curious as that doesn't make any sense to me.

I've not heard or read that the M235i will be discontinued and replaced with a higher HP 4 cyl.
The 228i is a 4cyl.

The base price difference between a 228i and 235i is mostly the engine and added standard equipment.
If BMW drops the M235i only to replace it with a 235i with a 4cyl, who then buys the greatly more expensive 4 cylinder 235i over the 228i?

With the 1 series there was the 128i and 135i, then came the 1M.
BMW didn't drop the 135i just because of the 1M.

I now digress a bit.

An M car is not a replacement for a fully loaded non M car.
It's a different niche, different automobile, and the price goes up accordingly.
Who actually x-shops a loaded 3 series or an M3?
No one. You either want all the tech and lux options on the 3 series, or you're an M buyer who buys it for the performance.
The 2 models are not related in that regard.

Just because a base M might be within reach of the price for a fully loaded non M doesn't then mean a person simply decides to "move up" to the M.
A base M is a base car. It doesn't come with all of the gee-whiz and gotta-have options. Those lux and tech options are still offered for the person who has to have all the performance AND the options. And to get that the price moves up even more.
For the gotta-have-it fully loaded buyer the fully loaded M is not even close in price to the fully loaded non M.
Those price points are vastly different, just as those cars are vastly different.

Getting an M is not the next bigger option to add to the non M.

BMW should not have named this car M235i. It should have been a 235i, and then add in the Msport options if you like.
Putting the "M" in the front of 235i is just marketing. It's not a M car, not even close. It's a 235i with an M sport package just like my
335i Msport. I have no delusions or expectations that I'm driving anything close to an M3, because it simply isn't.

BMW's current "M" marketing may be causing confusion at best, and at worst, for the uninitiated buyer, it may dilute what an M car really is.
It's not just an optional "M" package.
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2014, 10:31 AM   #144
Greenkirby21
Vrooom :)
Greenkirby21's Avatar
United_States
313
Rep
2,602
Posts

Drives: C7 Stringray
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dream Land

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer4life24 View Post
Agree with everything you said except the M3 is starting at $62k and you're forgetting the M235i will stop production when M2 is around. There will be a regular 235i that should cost less. Maybe base around $41k? (I believe the 135i was around $40k).

Using your logic, with the M3 at $62k base, a fully loaded M2 would be no higher than $61k. Subtract the $10k in upgrades, that gives you $51k. It makes sense if you look at it from a marketing standpoint which is the number 1 thing that people here are overlooking.

These numbers would target every market:
228i - $32k-$42k
235i - $41k-$51k
M2 - $51k-$61k
M3/4 - $63-$80K
M5 - +$92K

M235i is a car that is between the potential 235i (135i) and M2.
Can you please point me to where you read the M235i will be dropped when the M2 arrives?
I'm genuinely curious as that doesn't make any sense to me.

I've not heard or read that the M235i will be discontinued and replaced with a higher HP 4 cyl.
The 228i is a 4cyl.

The base price difference between a 228i and 235i is mostly the engine and added standard equipment.
If BMW drops the M235i only to replace it with a 235i with a 4cyl, who then buys the greatly more expensive 4 cylinder 235i over the 228i?

With the 1 series there was the 128i and 135i, then came the 1M.
BMW didn't drop the 135i just because of the 1M.

I now digress a bit.

An M car is not a replacement for a fully loaded non M car.
It's a different niche, different automobile, and the price goes up accordingly.
Who actually x-shops a loaded 3 series or an M3?
No one. You either want all the tech and lux options on the 3 series, or you're an M buyer who buys it for the performance.
The 2 models are not related in that regard.

Just because a base M might be within reach of the price for a fully loaded non M doesn't then mean a person simply decides to "move up" to the M.
A base M is a base car. It doesn't come with all of the gee-whiz and gotta-have options. Those lux and tech options are still offered for the person who has to have all the performance AND the options. And to get that the price moves up even more.
For the gotta-have-it fully loaded buyer the fully loaded M is not even close in price to the fully loaded non M.
Those price points are vastly different, just as those cars are vastly different.

Getting an M is not the next bigger option to add to the non M.

BMW should not have named this car M235i. It should have been a 235i, and then add in the Msport options if you like.
Putting the "M" in the front of 235i is just marketing. It's not a M car, not even close. It's a 235i with an M sport package just like my
335i Msport. I have no delusions or expectations that I'm driving anything close to an M3, because it simply isn't.

BMW's current "M" marketing may be causing confusion at best, and at worst, for the uninitiated buyer, it may dilute what an M car really is.
It's not just an optional "M" package.
The M235i is called the M235i because the M division had input on it whether you like it or not. They were in charge of the engine, suspension, steering, and exhaust. They are not the same as what you get in the 335i for example.

As far as I am aware, the M division did not touch the standard models.

But I do think less badges and 235is would have been more appropriate
__________________
2014 C7 Corvette Stringray - Laguna Blue - NPP Exhaust - Competition Seats
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:10 AM.




2addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST