[Machinebuilder]

I currently have a bmw 335 Ix 6 mt coupe which is rare. It's the old e92 body with the excellent hydraulic steering. I also have a bmw 2014 328 gt with the new steering which is not as satisfying. It's good but the old steering was sublime in comparison. The golf r appeals to me because it's the only car I can get 4 wheel drive and a manual other the Subaru wrx the suburu body style is not as practical and it's ride is harsh and shifter agricultural compared to the vw. I am not nocking subaru They are great cars and my old outback xt was bombproof but the new wrx is tough to drive daily in traffic filled roads. It's more exciting and has its own appeal. Younger drivers may prefer it. The golf r has a great seating position, nice shifter, good steering, compliant ride and a practical hatchback. It's a niche car but I commend vw for making it.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by NEUE02

I have owned my M235i for about 18 months. The styling is what keeps me going. Mine is red with carbon mirrors, and spoiler, sill blades and stickers. And the engine is sweet. But the steering is a huge disappointment for me. The brakes are strong but a little over boosted. The suspension is compliant and a good balance of handling and comfort but can be very bouncy. But overall it's a good car. I like it, but I don't really love it.

I shopped the GTI before I bought the M235i. The only reason I didn't pull the trigger was that the Performance Package wasn't yet available. Yes, the styling is a bit pedestrian which gives me some pause. And what? No Homelink? Really? I have since driven the R several times and I really, really like it. IMO, the steering is much better than the M235i's. The brakes are excellent. The suspension is awesome with a great ride and excellent control. The engine isn't as sexy as the 2's but is sounds great and I like it a lot.

Like I said, I like my M235i and don't want to sell it and take a depreciation bath. But if one day I came out to the garage and found a Golf R I wouldn't mourn the loss of the 2 for too terribly long.

Well said, and very accurate.

D

[bryan_G01]

my buddy running stage 2 R with full suspension, track tires FBO, manual @ 27 psi.

On a drag, beat him by a car length. On track (LimeRock), i was 5 seconds quicker.

[ABPReader]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

my buddy running stage 2 R with full suspension, track tires FBO, manual @ 27 psi.

On a drag, beat him by a car length. On track (LimeRock), i was 5 seconds quicker.

Do you have something more than Enzo tune ? What stage 2 tune does your friend have ? APR ? These golfs are really quick when FBO and stage 2 tune

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

my buddy running stage 2 R with full suspension, track tires FBO, manual @ 27 psi.

On a drag, beat him by a car length. On track (LimeRock), i was 5 seconds quicker.

The MK6 R is leagues behind the new MK7 and I can absolutely see that happening at LimeRock vs your car. The MK6 understeers really bad, something they've fixed on the MQB platform. That said, a new one at full stage 2 vs a stage 2 m235i should be a pretty nasty heads up match.

What times are you running @ LimeRock in the 235? I'm down under a minute now, in the Mazda Miata Cup car on iRacing

[bryan_G01]

Originally Posted by ABPReader

Do you have something more than Enzo tune ? What stage 2 tune does your friend have ? APR ? These golfs are really quick when FBO and stage 2 tune

APR.

We from roll racing he hung in there but i walked him.
Enzo tune, Dinan intake + FMIC, ER CP and FMIC piping... normal stuff.

[bryan_G01]

Iracing is the closest similator, but im running 1:07 on MPSS and stock suspension.

I have nitto 01's now so im hoping to hit 1:05 when i got back July 12, Sep 9-10.

Goal would be to hit under 1 min, but reality is unless your in a dedicated track car with full setup, under a minute is almost impossible.


My buddy runs honda challenge in a s2k full race prep and only runs 58 second laps, took his m3 and ran a 1:08 and said he would never bring his street car to the track again because it was so scary.


Cam Car = Boss 302 Mustang:

Here is the in car from the Vdub:

[BEM-S4]

Driving one on Saturday will report back. Dealer near me just got 4 in.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

Iracing is the closest similator, but im running 1:07 on MPSS and stock suspension.

I have nitto 01's now so im hoping to hit 1:05 when i got back July 12, Sep 9-10.

Goal would be to hit under 1 min, but reality is unless your in a dedicated track car with full setup, under a minute is almost impossible.


My buddy runs honda challenge in a s2k full race prep and only runs 58 second laps, took his m3 and ran a 1:08 and said he would never bring his street car to the track again because it was so scary.

Nice!

First thing I noticed is how early the R is braking compared to the braking points I use in the Miata on iRacing. I think braking is so crucial for a fast lap time, and it's evident that the R driver is either not too keen on hot lapping his car to it's potential, or he's just nervous about getting off track by braking too late. Understand that completely, it's probably a DD car lol. Just goes to show a slower car with less weight and greater braking ability can yield a much faster time than a horsepower monster, on a small track like Lime Rock.

I wish for some reasons I still lived on the East Coast, so I could visit all of the great tracks in that area like LimeRock, Road Atlanta, Road America, and my beloved Mosport

Good times, keep having fun!

[AWheeler]

I have also considered the Golf R. I am in need of four doors and ideally a hatchback/small wagon and previously owned a Mk6 GTI, which I enjoyed quite a bit.

The greatest barrier to me buying a Golf R or even developing my interest is that I have not been able to test drive one in my area and dealers consistently have had little to no inventory. I remember driving the previous Mk6 Golf R and thinking that, for my needs as a non-track day guy, the GTI was probably a better choice. I may simply end up with a GTI again some day, but the power and VERY understated look of the Golf R is attractive, too.

[c1pher]

I was able to drive an S3 which apparently is more plentiful and a TTS but the VW dealers around here keep their Rs on the dealer floor in many cases and not really eager to let you drive them because a buyer is usually just around the corner willing to pay higher than MSRP. The little 2.0t with 300hp is pretty impressive and the S3 while quick, is not quite at the same level of M235i performance.

[mutmat]

Hi all new to this forum and this thread instantly caught my eye.

Picked up at '16 Golf R and M235i (both manual and stock) this year with the Golf as my daily driver and the 2 my wife's. Over the past 6 months I've had plenty of seat time in both cars and in short they're quite amazing.

Here are a few things I've noticed about these 2 cars.

-BMW Inline 6 is a monster at speeds above 50mph. No comparison between the two. It sounds much better too. Way more confidence passing on 2 lane roads in the 2. The VW is no slouch but feels to run out of breath at higher speeds. Although for in-city driving between 1st and 2nd gear the Golf feels peppier and more eager to rev to redline. Not sure if AWD has anything to do with it.

-Golf R manual transmission exhibits some clutch slip when driving it hard between 1st and 2nd gear. Apparently it's carried over from the GTI. I hear DSG is the way to go for this car but my household prefers to row our own.

-I had a MK6 Golf R previously and the nose of the MK7 feels so much lighter and the car feels so much more balanced. However, compared to the 2 it is obvious that it's a FWD platform.

-AWD in the Golf makes it easy to drive fast around and coming out of corners but I sometimes feel like I have no part in making that happen. All computer stuff. RWD has much more of a "sports car" feel to it.

-Clutch in the R is too spongy. I prefer feel of the uptake of the 235's clutch.

-The R suspension feels so much more refined than the 2. (We have adaptive damping on both cars.) At high speeds bumps seem to unsettle the 2 more.

-The R bar none is the quieter (engine, road, and body insulation) and more comfortable place to be when doing long freeway cruising.

-Fit and finish of both interiors are just about equal. I prefer the cleaner look of the Golf's dash. I prefer the cleaner look of the 2's cluster.

-Seats are close with the 2 getting the nod for having memory and more adjustability. The R seats are snug but comfortable. The 2 seats always feel warm. I don't remember our E70 having this problem.

-Amazing amount of space in the R. SUV-like space IMO and we had an E70 X5 before this. The 2 is not bad either but if you only have 1 car the Golf makes a dam compelling case for itself.

-CarPlay in the R is a bit overrated. Perhaps it's because I'm using iOS and SIRI and Apple Maps are useless. The nav system in the 2 if often bashed here but I find it to be quite nice. We like factory nav systems because we prefer "clean" driving environments so no phone mounts for us.

-A tie for sound systems. I'm not an audiophile but I think both systems (HK vs Fender) are more than acceptable especially for stock systems.

-Auto high beams in the 2 are quite useful if you like to drive on 2 way roads at night. It's probably the only "luxury" feature I would have wanted on the R.

-Purchase experience was better for the 2 as expected but dealers are still asshats. In contrast, I had to do quite a bit of work to locate an R for MSRP. Thankfully, someone in the R forums publishes a spreadsheet listing all unsold R's.

Hopefully I was not too harsh on the R. It is $10k less and is obviously punching way above its weight. I think both cars are worth a look. Makes me smile whenever we ask ourselves: "Which car do we take?".

[XutvJet]

^Well, there you have it for a great stock compare between the two cars.


I too considered the Golf R when replacing my 2012 WRX hatchback. I just couldn't bring myself to:

1) Taking the risk with VW quality. They're still lagging in long-term dependability. Dieselgate will most certainly lead the company to resisting warranty work as much as possible to help maintain profits which have been crushed. VW will also likely dig deeper in cost cutting and the cars will suffer.

2) The Golf R is pretty dang sedate looking. Some mildly butched up fenders (not talking WRX style) may have swayed me. The M235 isn't overly aggressive looking, but it certainly looks more of the sporting part compared to the Gold R.

3) I wanted a manual and the clutches in high hp/tq VWs aren't known for holding well.

4) The 2.0 turbo hp per liter in the Golf R is very impressive; however, in order to get that power, a larger turbo is used and the Golf R suffers from quite a bit more lag than the more common variety turbo VWs. There's no way of getting around it. There is some lag in the M235's N55, but it's very very minimal. The N55 really drives like a high revving small displacement v8 except for that very mild whiff of turbo lag in certain situations.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by 228JB4

I was able to drive an S3 which apparently is more plentiful and a TTS but the VW dealers around here keep their Rs on the dealer floor in many cases and not really eager to let you drive them because a buyer is usually just around the corner willing to pay higher than MSRP. The little 2.0t with 300hp is pretty impressive and the S3 while quick, is not quite at the same level of M235i performance.

Well, we all have our preferences, but I found the S3 to be much more engaging and appealing than the M235i. It just felt solid with an eagerness to want to GO. And it is very comfy to sit in it as well. The M235i is comfortable as well, and I like BMW sport seats a lot. I was very impresse at how great the Audi sport seats felt, very comprable.
I really love the S3 a lot, and I wanted one.
However, Audi like VW sucks at having stock, and then sucks at having good leasing like BMW does.

The S3 I wanted was a modest build with just a couple of options. I don't do NAV or all the other techno sheek connectivity items.
So, of course I would have to order because what's on the Audi lots around Chicago is nearly fully equipped to fully equipped S3's or base no options at all. To order would take something like 3-4 months.
Audi is crazy, and it's no wonder that BMW beats them in sales.

BMW makes it so easy to get whatever you want and get it relatively quickly, along with a great deal and really good leasing.
Audi and VW seem to have set up their sales system to not encourage leasing at all.
The S3 I like was about $8K less than the 340i I have, and yet the lease payment was going to be about $50 more!
Yeah, ok.

I really LOVE the S3, but not that much more than the 340i or M235i.

[moldcad]

Guys,

I'm not having time or the right mood to write as a comprehensive comparison of the M235i and Golf 7 R. I'll only say that I have both, so please feel free to turn to me with any kind of questions re how they compare. In this short message I will only tell you this:

- even though I've been a BMW fanboy since my childhood (I'm 61 years old now), and I love my M235i and its R6 engine (for which I even replaced my 2-years old 2012 528xi just because I so badly needed the R6) - there is plethora of aspects which make my R a better car. I have it fully loaded, and with DCT.

Perhaps other BMW lovers here will just say what I wrote above is BS; let it be with them. But like I said: anyone interested please ask why I prefer Golf R DCT over aslo fully loaded M235i - I'l explain everything

Piotr

[EEBreh]

I bought the 235 for longtime reliability. After working on several VWs and Audis, I have seen lots of poorly designed parts and bad engineering. I dont trust VW or their haladex garbage awd system. Maybe i'm in a different boat, since you guys change cars out frequently.

[BEM-S4]

Drive the R today. Really, really nice. For $40k I think it's great. Aesthetically not my cup of tea and finding a color I'd like would be tough. Think you almost "have to" get the blue so it stands out a bit and that one is harder to find. Dealer had red white black and blue on the lot, blue was a standard which I don't want for a variety of reasons.

When we got home and I saw my 235 in the driveway seeing it made me happy in a way the R just didn't. That said if you need fun affordable versatile the R is tough to beat.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by EEBreh

I bought the 235 for longtime reliability. After working on several VWs and Audis, I have seen lots of poorly designed parts and bad engineering. I dont trust VW or their haladex garbage awd system. Maybe i'm in a different boat, since you guys change cars out frequently.

This is somewhat funny to me since many of my friends start to notice issues shortly after 50,000 miles on their BMWs, however minor and other friends of mine in VWs, especially TDIs going strong without problems for over 200,000 miles.

[EEBreh]

Originally Posted by 228JB4

This is somewhat funny to me since many of my friends start to notice issues shortly after 50,000 miles on their BMWs, however minor and other friends of mine in VWs, especially TDIs going strong without problems for over 200,000 miles.

TDIs are pretty well built, I'll give you that. My brother took extremely good care of his and his is actually part of the buyback. I do know one person who had a TDI and the fuel pump went...VW had to do a ton of work on it to get it fixed (metal pieces went all over the fuel system.) I think the diesel engines are in a different league than their gas engines. The other BMWs I have been exposed to (E36 and E60) have been pretty straightforward and semi-thought out. I just recently helped my uncle work on my cousins 2.5L VW. The engine bay is filled with plastic junk and it was poorly thought out. The water pump would not come directly out, you have to drop the engine partially and it isn't easy since it is transversely mounted. E36 takes 15 minutes to do it. Hell, I had to partially drop the engine on a 996 to do the waterpump - the only difference is that is not a mass produced car and you can drop the damn engine in an hour if you wanted to.

One of my buddies who is big into Mercedes worked at the parts counter for a VW dealer (part time - he is a mechanical engineering student.) He swore he would never buy a VW after seeing the issues he was exposed to with poorly designed components and just a lack of engineering thought. Who would make a camshaft drive a fuel pump??? He showed me photos of damaged camshafts on 2.0 TFSI engines. Stupid design. Also, work on a few B5 S4s, audi allroads or any 2.7T vag engine that has been in new england for its life and then get back to me about issues. Yikes.

[jb606]

Originally Posted by EEBreh

Who would make a camshaft drive a fuel pump???

Just about every car company that uses direct injection has a cam driven high pressure fuel pump, including BMW. VW/Audi just used a crappy metal for the cam follower on the HPFP.

[riimiX]

happy I found this thread so I could read through everyone's experiences, share my own, and bounce some ideas around.

currently in the undecided state of what to do since my 2014 428i xDrive lease is coming to an end very soon, 3 months left. the main factor is balancing both budget and fun/pleasure. i've decided upon financing the next one as opposed to leasing.

a year ago I looked into trading my lease with someone and buying a CPO E92 335i coupe (was a pretty good deal, fully loaded for ~$30K)... put all the paperwork through and last minute the guy decided to back out from taking my lease. however, while my rep was busy dealing with someone else, he let me take an m235i out for a spin on my own. HOOOO BOY... after that point i was pretty sold on it. i went in thinking it wouldn't be that much of a difference between the 428, i was severely wrong. i decided to give up on finding someone to take over my lease and just wait it out to weigh my options fully.

recently, i was able to test drive a golf r (miraculously!) and was quite impressed. they had to pull it off the showroom floor for me and everything. rep said i was the only person to ever test drive it. here are just a couple of (negative) things i noticed, and this is me being overly picky:

- seats definitely feel snug, not sure if this is something i'll get used to or annoyed with.
- i'm used to driving coupes my whole life, so seeing the door sill/pillar where i usually check my blind spot is really distracting and doesn't inspire confidence (despite my mirrors being setup perfectly).
- no sunroof, wah
- don't really like touchscreen, feels too distracting to use while driving
- no power folding mirrors
- no seat memory

a week later i went to test drive the m235i again, it felt like the car to have. just for my own benefit, i decided to drive the 228 immediately after... no comparison, felt exactly like my 428.

if i had to rank them... m235i > golf r > 228
the 228 didn't have the track handling package on it so that could be part of my conclusion.

if price wasn't a factor i'd select the m235i over the golf r.

price being somewhat of a factor... i'm debating if i should go golf r and hope that i'm happy in the long run. anyone have a similar experience/dilemma? any golf r owners that can weigh in on the issue? i remember two things specifically:

1. sitting back in my 428 after test driving the golf r and feeling more 'comfortable' in it
2. recently having a 328 loaner and thinking about floaty and loose it felt while driving. it didn't feel planted and i worry that the golf r would feel the same. i'm gonna have to test drive again and pay attention more.

can anyone weigh in on long term reliability / cost of ownership between these two brands?

the hard part, is finding a CPO/used m235i or in-stock inventory heavily discounted in the next 3 months. and if that doesn't happen, i'd have to find a blue golf-r in stock

sorry for the wall of text and rambling but just felt like contributing

[Dylan86]

Should be lot's of CPO'd 235s hitting the lots soon with the launch of the 240i. Always a better buy that way too