[VIN240i13]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Plan your timing carefully...several indicators that the next generation 2 Series around calendar 2020/model 2021 will be automatic only.

Interesting, I had this same conversation with my service manager on Monday as I was having the 2018 M240i software updated due to the recall for the digital instrument panel issue.

He did mention that our friends at BMW may keep a low-profile and creep this in place, that is send only AT’s to dealers and make it near impossible to order with an MT until the “sorry no more MT’s” is a 100% done deal.

He did mention that if anything, the MT’s will still be an option on the ///M variants. Worst case scenario I will simply pick up a low mileage MT equipped CPO.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Plan your timing carefully...several indicators that the next generation 2 Series around calendar 2020/model 2021 will be automatic only.

Hey, Sportstick; Are those dates for next gen 2-series (i.e. 2020CY/2021MY) fact or is that your assumption?
If so, that would be perfect timing for me.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

It really comes down to personal preference, I don't understand the need for these debates.

There was a quote I heard a while back: The Automatic is for the performance enthusiast, manual is for the driving enthusiast.

I happen to have 1 of each, the Z is manual, the 2er is auto. Both fill their roles just fine, BUT, there are times I prefer taking the Z out because there is something that's so much fun about rowing through the gears on a mountain road.

Paddle shifters are great and all when you are trying to save time on shifts etc, but they just aren't as fun to me on a mountain road, or coastal cruise, where the objective is not to set the fastest lap etc, but rather to just enjoy the drive.

On the other side of the spectrum, if you were trying to hit lap times, the manual will be slowing you down a good amount.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Luftwaffe1O1

It really comes down to personal preference, I don't understand the need for these debates.

There was a quote I heard a while back: The Automatic is for the performance enthusiast, manual is for the driving enthusiast.

I happen to have 1 of each, the Z is manual, the 2er is auto. Both fill their roles just fine, BUT, there are times I prefer taking the Z out because there is something that's so much fun about rowing through the gears on a mountain road.

Paddle shifters are great and all when you are trying to save time on shifts etc, but they just aren't as fun to me on a mountain road, or coastal cruise, where the objective is not to set the fastest lap etc, but rather to just enjoy the drive.

On the other side of the spectrum, if you were trying to hit lap times, the manual will be slowing you down a good amount.

Very well put. If you race competitively, you'd be a sucker to buy a manual. Period. However, there's something about the manual shifting. I like banging the gears hard during racing, but I also love winding it out and being somewhat slow on the up or down shifts and/or skipping gears. With an auto, it's going to bang into the next gear whether you're going full tilt or putting along like a grandma. I really don't like that. I love that complete control of the manual. And you're right, it is all about preference and what one desires. If I was 20 right now and had this car, I'd want the auto because it's quicker and faster. As I've grown older (closing in on 44), I'm far less interested in all out performance and speed, but rather the experience, engagement, and feel.

[Ron Jeffries]

I think it's mostly that we like to talk about cars. Probably few of us believe in absolute answers.

That said, when driving I might like an MT a lot, though I think my M Coupe was the last manual I had, but when cruising I prefer the AT.

But when under moderate to near-heavy throttle, the AT shifts remind me more of a hydramatic than I'd like. It's not one gear then the other, like the DCT, it's more like a trombone slide between gears.

I was experimenting with feathering the throttle today, which provides better shifts but unless you know when it's going to want to upshift, it's hard to get that right.

I wouldn't pay the mad price of a DCT to put in the M240i, even if you could ... but I'd be tempted. That's such a fine box.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by bimmerfile

Hey, Sportstick; Are those dates for next gen 2-series (i.e. 2020CY/2021MY) fact or is that your assumption?
If so, that would be perfect timing for me.

From Automotive News database:

[Ron Jeffries]

Report I saw today in automobile.com says the 2 series will lose the convertible next time out.

[MarkDemma]

Looking at that model release chart reinforces something I was already thinking: namely Wow BMW was VERY busy with releases in 2018!

Things for the future seem to be in quite a state of flux. Will the i3/i8 be renewed at all? Whatever happened to the i5?

I think a lot of it must have to do with what oil prices and regulations will look like 5-10 years out. If there is a mad rush to electrify everything I suspect that the current cycle 2'er will be the last you'll see with a stick.

[p912guy]

Originally Posted by Ron Jeffries

Report I saw today in automobile.com says the 2 series will lose the convertible next time out.

I hope that's not correct. There is no doubt the market for convertibles is small and possibly even shrinking but my m235i convertible is awesome. I'd have little or no interest in a 2 Series if it weren't designed as and available as a convertible. I'd also be interested in the 4 Series vert if it were a soft top, instead of a hard top, and I am still hopeful BMW makes that change with the next release of the 4 Series, especially since MB and Audi are soft top and VW, Lexus, Infinity and Volvo have all dropped their hard top convertibles from their product lines.

[VIN240i13]

Originally Posted by Ron Jeffries

Report I saw today in automobile.com says the 2 series will lose the convertible next time out.

Interesting information, if that is the case I wonder if 2018 M240i convertibles will benefit from a positive uptick on retail residual value in the used car market. Convertibles are for a niche market but according to the two BMW dealerships in my area when one is available it usually moves off the lot very quickly.

[MarkDemma]

And I'll add something that I don't think was mentioned yet. Nowadays you can consider a MT an anti-theft device because so few people can drive them anymore!

I jest, I jest. I do recall from trips to Germany that you do see a lot more MTs there, but it's been about 3 years since I was there. I remember when renting a car there once the rental agent asked if I could drive manual and when I said I could she gave me an 1'er. I asked if I could have a 3'er and she said no, they were all automatic and so she had to reserve those for people who couldn't drive manual. Apparently all the 1s were manual. I actually didn't mind it. The place I was staying had very tight parking.

[emtrey]

IMHO the current ATs are quite good especially when mated to modern turbocharged engines.

The PDK ( primary experience with Porsche. -Have not had a chance to test drive the BMW version ) is an extraordinary device for the track. In my limited track time with a 991.2 , the PDK was awe inspiring. It was always in the right gear and gave me time to focus on line and braking without having gear changes to add to the mix.

But it started to feel like an AT after a while on the street. I know this is the wave of the future but I find it sad that it might soon be the only option.

I have driven 3 pedal cars since 1964 and had at least one around the house since 1978.
I am very happy with the ZF AT in both the 335 and M235 but I still want the fully involved driving experience of a true stick shift/clutch. Luckily the 997.1 fills that hole for me. I don't care if the PDK/DCT is faster, I find the stick shift more fun and involving.

There are just too many preferred equipment items going the way of the dodo bird for my tastes and likely those of other enthusiasts as we trend toward autonomous driving, and no feel for the road or the vehicle's involvement with the roads we drive on.

BUT, to semi hijack this thread. Please bring back hydraulic steering or find a way to give EPS true road feel. To me, RFs and EPS are the biggest "downgrades" to the current BMW's Ultimate Driving Experience.. (I now have a basement full of take off Rfs.-soon to be adding the RFs from the M235 to my collection )

[USA-RET]

Originally Posted by VIN240i13

Typical R&T click-bate article, useless "fluff" information...

The MT versus AT debate will go on forever as long as MT’s are available. In reality it’s not much of a debate but more a personal choice and/or preference. For any technical advantages the AT has over the MT, it’s usually dismissed by the driver’s engagement feeling an MT provides; it’s a debate that has absolutely NO winners or losers.

^
Couldn't agree more. Like arguing car color. The article was an okay read and perhaps made a point or two. But the same can be said about any comparison piece (depending on the "slant" of the writer).

Both camps have a cadre of supporters, which is expected and fine IMO. I'm thankful we at least have choices. W/ the push for autonomous vehicles the AT/MT debate may eventually become moot.

[Maynard]

Agreed that this is more of an ongoing discussion than a true debate. but one of the common oversimplifications that often comes up, and fails to give the engineers their full due is some version of this:

Originally Posted by XutvJet

....With an auto, it's going to bang into the next gear whether you're going full tilt or putting along like a grandma. I really don't like that. I love that complete control of the manual......

You can easily put it into sport mode and it will hold gears fine - only thing is that it will downshift if you get too slow, won't log and kill the engine. I know, NOT the same thing as manually shifting, but I am really amazed at how good the AT is on these for spirited driving, and I hate to see them get a bad rap.

And you are all killing me with the constant teasing about euro rental cars with MT - what a dream that is for me (perhaps a little less fun as you try to navigate a strange traffic rotary with small signs in a foreign language, and crazed commuters all around, but we're talking daydream material, not reality).

[MarkDemma]

Originally Posted by Maynard

And you are all killing me with the constant teasing about euro rental cars with MT - what a dream that is for me (perhaps a little less fun as you try to navigate a strange traffic rotary with small signs in a foreign language, and crazed commuters all around, but we're talking daydream material, not reality).

When I had the 118d MT I went up a tight road up a steep hill in Salzburg that abruptly ended, forcing me to have to back up all the way back down the road. Fun times.!

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Maynard

And you are all killing me with the constant teasing about euro rental cars with MT - what a dream that is for me (perhaps a little less fun as you try to navigate a strange traffic rotary with small signs in a foreign language, and crazed commuters all around, but we're talking daydream material, not reality).

Brings me back to renting from Avis in Edinburgh a RHD MT VW Passat Diesel wagon followed by in London a RHD MT BMW 116 hatchback. At least the signs were in English but I could feel my mind working to make sense of the new experience! And, London traffic made it even more interesting, but any/all of the roundabouts were fun because folks over there know how to use them!

[baege]

I have actually solved the debate that has raged in forums forever

see my thread "has anyone gone back to DCT?" in general forum

I also made a similar thread on the Porsche forum "has anyone gone back to PDK"

not one person has stated on either thread that they went from manual to DCT back to manual then back to DCT because they missed DCT in terms of enjoyment of the driving experience.

yet many have gone from manual to DCT then back to manual because they missed manual in terms of driving enjoyment

ergo, manual is the best transmission for bringing enjoyment on the road

case closed

[emtrey]

Originally Posted by baege

I have actually solved the debate that has raged in forums forever

see my thread "has anyone gone back to DCT?" in general forum

I also made a similar thread on the Porsche forum "has anyone gone back to PDK"

not one person has stated on either thread that they went from manual to DCT back to manual then back to DCT because they missed DCT in terms of enjoyment of the driving experience.

yet many have gone from manual to DCT then back to manual because they missed manual in terms of driving enjoyment

ergo, manual is the best transmission for bringing enjoyment on the road

case closed

agree, 100% That's why I will never let go of my C2S unless I no longer have the ability to drive it.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by baege

I have actually solved the debate that has raged in forums forever

see my thread "has anyone gone back to DCT?" in general forum

I also made a similar thread on the Porsche forum "has anyone gone back to PDK"

not one person has stated on either thread that they went from manual to DCT back to manual then back to DCT because they missed DCT in terms of enjoyment of the driving experience.

yet many have gone from manual to DCT then back to manual because they missed manual in terms of driving enjoyment

ergo, manual is the best transmission for bringing enjoyment on the road

case closed

Exactly. Spend time on most any performance car forum and take note of the threads and posts where automatic owners post how after a bit of time with the auto, they wish they had bought the manual. The only time you really read about those with manuals regretting not getting the auto are those that race competitively or have POS manuals/clutches like those found in VWs.