Rentals (Mazda 3, MB C300) vs. my 228i

caycep · 05-27-2016, 03:38 PM

Just some quick thoughts:

MB C300:

Engine: I think it is the turbocharged 4? It really seems meh compared to the BMW. I was really surprised - more vibration, noise sucked, less smooth. Maybe it is just the active sound on the BMW? but it seems like the 228i's inline 4 is so much better...

Mazda 3 - engine feels underpowered w/ the automatic but when you do the manual shift mode, it does quite well at 75 mph and under (typical road conditions). Not a monster. It is a 4-pot and feels rough (155 hp one), I suspect less vibration and noise damping than MB and BMW. BUT: it feels smoother than the MB inline 4!!!!

Handling: BMW has more road feel and steering feedback. MB suspension and steering is not bad - it has about as much precision as the BMW but less "road feedback". I have not really pushed the MB.

Mazda - reasonable handling - I was expecting more, but there were some tight turns where the front tires lost grip. It may be a combo of FWD and cheaper tires on the Mazda. On highways and twisties, able to pass large SUV's with ease due to momentum. But overall feel from MB and BMW better.

Interior: MB aesthetically has more bells and whistles. Ergonomically, I like the BMW's better, may it is more familiar. I was afraid the MB would walk away here, but I would say: the build quality is probably about the same. The BMW sport seats are much better. The MB's design is more "flashy" but I think the BMW's ergonomics and layout are better. I would say, MB (and the rental hyundai sonata) have an edge on flash/style and materials, but the BMW is not bad, and more driver-oriented, which is what matters to me. MB is more quiet (cruiser style). Mazda: not as horrible as people are saying - pretty standard. Cloth seats are fine, but I can see how they might wear faster w/ age. Very reasonable, though.

Fit/finish: again, was expecting MB to walk away here, but I was surprised how well BMW holds up. MB's doors and trunk aren't as heavy, feel cheaper. Did not inspect panel gaps on MB, I assume they are about the same. Mazda - everything felt lightweight, but no glaring deficiencies. That being said, I wouldn't say any of the 3 have an absolute edge on each other. Of note, Hyundai Sonata door slam and other fit/finish details are quite nice.

Tech: TBH, they are all meh. I have the non-tech package in the BMW and it does a reasonable job of staying out of the way. MB tech: WAY too complicated and flashy. they have a iDrive wheel, some touch pad thingy and a lot of other stuff. Did not like. Mazda - basic tech, bluetooth, and usb. Does its job, nothing special, but did not really seem overly complicated.

In summary: All great cars, but surprised how much I didn't take to the MB. It is a good driver with good steering and suspension but prefer BMW engine, interior and build quality (much to my surprise with all the handwringing about BMW's plastic-ey cabin). Mazda is a good basic car, but not quite at the 228i's level driving wise, but definitely a reasonably fast and efficient car - would upgrade tires for sure. Also: the 2 series is a great car!!!

Merc for hire · 05-27-2016, 06:35 PM

Very nice, thanks for the review. Our cars are very good in comparison!

I think the real upgrades compare to 2 Series are the Porsche sport car series.

TBro2002 · 05-28-2016, 03:23 PM

I just spent 5 days in a Chrysler 200 rental car. What a piece of crap. No comparison to my 2.

Sportstick · 05-28-2016, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBro2002

I just spent 5 days in a Chrysler 200 rental car. What a piece of crap. No comparison to my 2.

Nor was it ever intended or designed to be....compare it to Fusion, Malibu, Camry, Accord, etc...an entirely different automotive experience.

midwest 340xi 6sp · 05-28-2016, 03:57 PM

I really like the new generation MB C's...Their interiors are richly appointed and get one with a sport package and it looks good and drives decently. The C400 is much more fun to drive than their turbo 4.

The C has a different set of imperatives vs a 2'er for sure.

I think it does what it was intended to do well and in an typically classic MB fashion.

Definitely on my next car radar - again.

caycep · 05-29-2016, 02:44 PM

To be honest, the C300 seems most competitive with...the Hyundai Sonata. In that both are meant to be relatively comfort/features platforms. And, to be honest, I am not sure it delivers. The suspension and steering are better than the Hyundai, but that engine, I'm not so sure the extra HP really matters as much and they are both noticeably rough (at least for day to day driving). I think if I were in that market, I would probably take the Sonata, with its slightly better interior and features, and save the extra money/Total cost of ownership.

I also drove a Chrysler 200 recently (another brief rental) and would agree for above. For the 1 day or so I had it...it sucked. Suspension and steering were noticeably much worse than Hyundai and the Mazda, and I could not get comfy in the seating position. Of all the cruisers I had the chance to rent, I would put it below Hyundai, Mazda, Ford (fusion), AND chevy (cruze). The Ford was reasonably competitive with the Hyundai, maybe a notch lower on interior fit/finish.

(none drive like the 2er

)

Sportstick · 05-29-2016, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midwest M235i

I really like the new generation MB C's...Their interiors are richly appointed and get one with a sport package and it looks good and drives decently. The C400 is much more fun to drive than their turbo 4.

The C has a different set of imperatives vs a 2'er for sure.

I think it does what it was intended to do well and in an typically classic MB fashion.

Definitely on my next car radar - again.

Perhaps for the next generation, they will remember to design in the navigation screen and not crazy glue them to the IP at final assembly!

(From the new E Class and word from some MB "insiders", they've heard that message and new C Class and lower IPs will be designed differently.)

mcompact · 05-29-2016, 10:56 PM

I've pretty much stuck with BMWs since 1983, but I did buy a new Mazdaspeed 3 in 2007 and kept it until last January, when I traded it for my M235i. Now granted, it had a few tweaks- Mazdaspeed CAI, Hypertech tune, FSDs, PSS, and a JBR rear ARB set 50% stiffer than stock-but it was an absolute hoot to drive, FWD and all. I don't regret replacing it, but the M235i and M2 were the only BMWs I seriously considered- although I probably would have remained in the Mazdaspeed camp had the oft-rumored 300+ hp AWD MS3 actually materialized.

doccyber · 05-30-2016, 01:56 AM

The turbo 4s from MB and BMW sound awful. The Audi,s 4 turbo is not much better. Now I don't know if it's due to the fact that I6 N55 is such a smooth engine due to its design or that the 4 turbo is inherently a noisy and "rattley" engine??

M235iguy · 05-30-2016, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBro2002

I just spent 5 days in a Chrysler 200 rental car. What a piece of crap. No comparison to my 2.

Chrysler / dodge / jeep / ram = junk

M235iguy · 05-30-2016, 02:07 AM

Only Mazda I have ever been interested in was the RX7

M235iguy · 05-30-2016, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Nor was it ever intended or designed to be....compare it to Fusion, Malibu, Camry, Accord, etc...an entirely different automotive experience.

Should never be compared to anything German or Japanese. Pure American trash. Chrysler is beyond bad. I worked in Warranty services years back for them and would never and i mean NEVER drive anything made by Chrysler

Merc for hire · 05-30-2016, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doccyber

The turbo 4s from MB and BMW sound awful. The Audi,s 4 turbo is not much better. Now I don't know if it's due to the fact that I6 N55 is such a smooth engine due to its design or that the 4 turbo is inherently a noisy and "rattley" engine??

Every time a 328i drives by I have always thought it was a 328d at first.

JohnnyCanuck · 05-30-2016, 11:27 AM

Had a MB C class rental in Phoenix last year. Not overly impressed. Then again, never really been an MB fan (find them too blingy for my taste). One thing I really did like was the nav ... the integrated Garmin nav was really good.

Before my E90, I had a Mazdaspeed 6. That car was freaking awesome. Stupid fast, awesome handling, great driver's car. It was a lease so I chose not to buy it out (the only car I have ever leased), but I wish I had actually bought it from day 1 and would have kept it for years longer.

Sportstick · 05-30-2016, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

Had a MB C class rental in Phoenix last year. Not overly impressed. Then again, never really been an MB fan (find them too blingy for my taste). One thing I really did like was the nav ... the integrated Garmin nav was really good.

How it works?

Or, where they placed it?

JohnnyCanuck · 05-30-2016, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sportstick

How it works?

Or, where they placed it?

How it works. Not the rest of the UI, purely the nav itself. The lane guidance on both the main display and in the instrument panel itself was excellent. Also had the perfect balance of voice interaction (I hate nav units that talk too much).

doccyber · 05-30-2016, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merc for hire

Quote:

Originally Posted by doccyber

The turbo 4s from MB and BMW sound awful. The Audi,s 4 turbo is not much better. Now I don't know if it's due to the fact that I6 N55 is such a smooth engine due to its design or that the 4 turbo is inherently a noisy and "rattley" engine??

Every time a 328i drives by I have always thought it was a 328d at first.

Me too.

Viffermike · 05-31-2016, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doccyber

The turbo 4s from MB and BMW sound awful. The Audi,s 4 turbo is not much better. Now I don't know if it's due to the fact that I6 N55 is such a smooth engine due to its design or that the 4 turbo is inherently a noisy and "rattley" engine??

Nope.

Exhibit A: the 2017 Porsche Boxster / Cayman.
Exhibit B: the Alfa Romeo 4C.
Exhibit C: the Fiat 500 Abarth.
Exhibit D: Any modern Lotus ... or a 1980s Esprit.
Exhibit E: A 1980s Renault Alpine.

A turbo 4 can definitely be made to sound good. But it has to be a priority for the automaker.

Benandluna · 06-01-2016, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M235iguy

Chrysler / dodge / jeep / ram = junk

Iono about that, I had a Jeep Wrangler which I use in the winter and now a renegade. It's a nifty little suv, is fully loaded with better sound, and 4 wheel drive that is way better than awd or x drive.

This past December I had a x drive x3 and two imprezas sliding around while my 4wd was a rock solid car..

I mean can't compare to my m235i.

Merc for hire · 06-01-2016, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benandluna

Iono about that, I had a Jeep Wrangler which I use in the winter and now a renegade. It's a nifty little suv, is fully loaded with better sound, and 4 wheel drive that is way better than awd or x drive.

This past December I had a x drive x3 and two imprezas sliding around while my 4wd was a rock solid car..

I mean can't compare to my m235i.

The Jeep Wrangler is about the only good vehicle coming out of that company group. The customer reports on Jeep are usually worst of all brands.

M235iguy · 06-01-2016, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benandluna

Iono about that, I had a Jeep Wrangler which I use in the winter and now a renegade. It's a nifty little suv, is fully loaded with better sound, and 4 wheel drive that is way better than awd or x drive.

This past December I had a x drive x3 and two imprezas sliding around while my 4wd was a rock solid car..

I mean can't compare to my m235i.

I'm referring to reliability and build quality. The parts are cheap and non stop problems with Chrysler, I worked for Chrysler warranty services and know a thing or two about the many, and I mean many issues and problems those vehicles have.

angelbones · 06-02-2016, 03:17 PM

Just a couple quick responses. It appears that you are talking about the MB C300 SEDAN, not the coupe, and not really an equal comparison to the 2 series. I've been in the coupe and it is miles ahead of the last gen C250 (although the C450 AMG is very nice, it's a different price category). It felt and looks like a mini-S class, which is a compliment, and really is a very attractive car. Interior is superb. Of course, performance wise, it's not even close to the 228i, much less the M235. Furthermore, halfway decent equipped, it's still $50k.

Also, regarding Mazda, even C&D says that they have a great lineup and really should be selling more cars than they do. I had a Mazda RX-8 for about 5 years and I loved it. Best handling car I've ever owned with a 50/50 weight distribution. I know you referenced the Mazda 3 (again a sedan), but if they had kept building the RX-8 and updating (such as some of the concepts I've seen), I would certainly be cross shopping a Mazda coupe. It's just that they don't make one now. I suppose a truism I posted two years ago remains valid today: What COUPE truly compares to the 2-series? The answer is there is none with equivalent size, style, price, tradition, etc.

05-27-2016, 03:38 PM	#1
caycep First Lieutenant 91 Rep 333 Posts Drives: 228i Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2015 BMW 228i [0.00]	Rentals (Mazda 3, MB C300) vs. my 228i Just some quick thoughts: MB C300: Engine: I think it is the turbocharged 4? It really seems meh compared to the BMW. I was really surprised - more vibration, noise sucked, less smooth. Maybe it is just the active sound on the BMW? but it seems like the 228i's inline 4 is so much better... Mazda 3 - engine feels underpowered w/ the automatic but when you do the manual shift mode, it does quite well at 75 mph and under (typical road conditions). Not a monster. It is a 4-pot and feels rough (155 hp one), I suspect less vibration and noise damping than MB and BMW. BUT: it feels smoother than the MB inline 4!!!! Handling: BMW has more road feel and steering feedback. MB suspension and steering is not bad - it has about as much precision as the BMW but less "road feedback". I have not really pushed the MB. Mazda - reasonable handling - I was expecting more, but there were some tight turns where the front tires lost grip. It may be a combo of FWD and cheaper tires on the Mazda. On highways and twisties, able to pass large SUV's with ease due to momentum. But overall feel from MB and BMW better. Interior: MB aesthetically has more bells and whistles. Ergonomically, I like the BMW's better, may it is more familiar. I was afraid the MB would walk away here, but I would say: the build quality is probably about the same. The BMW sport seats are much better. The MB's design is more "flashy" but I think the BMW's ergonomics and layout are better. I would say, MB (and the rental hyundai sonata) have an edge on flash/style and materials, but the BMW is not bad, and more driver-oriented, which is what matters to me. MB is more quiet (cruiser style). Mazda: not as horrible as people are saying - pretty standard. Cloth seats are fine, but I can see how they might wear faster w/ age. Very reasonable, though. Fit/finish: again, was expecting MB to walk away here, but I was surprised how well BMW holds up. MB's doors and trunk aren't as heavy, feel cheaper. Did not inspect panel gaps on MB, I assume they are about the same. Mazda - everything felt lightweight, but no glaring deficiencies. That being said, I wouldn't say any of the 3 have an absolute edge on each other. Of note, Hyundai Sonata door slam and other fit/finish details are quite nice. Tech: TBH, they are all meh. I have the non-tech package in the BMW and it does a reasonable job of staying out of the way. MB tech: WAY too complicated and flashy. they have a iDrive wheel, some touch pad thingy and a lot of other stuff. Did not like. Mazda - basic tech, bluetooth, and usb. Does its job, nothing special, but did not really seem overly complicated. In summary: All great cars, but surprised how much I didn't take to the MB. It is a good driver with good steering and suspension but prefer BMW engine, interior and build quality (much to my surprise with all the handwringing about BMW's plastic-ey cabin). Mazda is a good basic car, but not quite at the 228i's level driving wise, but definitely a reasonably fast and efficient car - would upgrade tires for sure. Also: the 2 series is a great car!!!
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05-27-2016, 06:35 PM	#2
Merc for hire First Lieutenant 157 Rep 387 Posts Drives: M235i 6MT Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada iTrader: (0)	Very nice, thanks for the review. Our cars are very good in comparison! I think the real upgrades compare to 2 Series are the Porsche sport car series.
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05-28-2016, 03:23 PM	#3
TBro2002 Second Lieutenant 70 Rep 289 Posts Drives: 2015 335i M-Sport Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Long Beach CA iTrader: (0)	I just spent 5 days in a Chrysler 200 rental car. What a piece of crap. No comparison to my 2.
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05-28-2016, 03:57 PM	#5
midwest 340xi 6sp Lieutenant Colonel 358 Rep 1,797 Posts Drives: 2018 340xi Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Great Midwest iTrader: (6)	I really like the new generation MB C's...Their interiors are richly appointed and get one with a sport package and it looks good and drives decently. The C400 is much more fun to drive than their turbo 4. The C has a different set of imperatives vs a 2'er for sure. I think it does what it was intended to do well and in an typically classic MB fashion. Definitely on my next car radar - again. __________________ Previous Rides: 535xi, M235xi, X3, E92 M3, E70 X5 35d, X6 50i, X6 35i, E60 550i, E46 M3 Cabriolet, E39 540i, E36 328i Last edited by midwest 340xi 6sp; 05-28-2016 at 04:04 PM..
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05-29-2016, 02:44 PM	#6
caycep First Lieutenant 91 Rep 333 Posts Drives: 228i Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2015 BMW 228i [0.00]	To be honest, the C300 seems most competitive with...the Hyundai Sonata. In that both are meant to be relatively comfort/features platforms. And, to be honest, I am not sure it delivers. The suspension and steering are better than the Hyundai, but that engine, I'm not so sure the extra HP really matters as much and they are both noticeably rough (at least for day to day driving). I think if I were in that market, I would probably take the Sonata, with its slightly better interior and features, and save the extra money/Total cost of ownership. I also drove a Chrysler 200 recently (another brief rental) and would agree for above. For the 1 day or so I had it...it sucked. Suspension and steering were noticeably much worse than Hyundai and the Mazda, and I could not get comfy in the seating position. Of all the cruisers I had the chance to rent, I would put it below Hyundai, Mazda, Ford (fusion), AND chevy (cruze). The Ford was reasonably competitive with the Hyundai, maybe a notch lower on interior fit/finish. (none drive like the 2er )
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05-29-2016, 10:56 PM	#8
mcompact Second Lieutenant 119 Rep 213 Posts Drives: 2014 M235i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: KY iTrader: (0)	I've pretty much stuck with BMWs since 1983, but I did buy a new Mazdaspeed 3 in 2007 and kept it until last January, when I traded it for my M235i. Now granted, it had a few tweaks- Mazdaspeed CAI, Hypertech tune, FSDs, PSS, and a JBR rear ARB set 50% stiffer than stock-but it was an absolute hoot to drive, FWD and all. I don't regret replacing it, but the M235i and M2 were the only BMWs I seriously considered- although I probably would have remained in the Mazdaspeed camp had the oft-rumored 300+ hp AWD MS3 actually materialized. __________________ 2014 M235i 2015 X1 xDrive28i M Sport 2009 Cooper Clubman 1999 Wrangler Sahara 1995 318ti Club Sport
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05-30-2016, 01:56 AM	#9
doccyber Captain 259 Rep 628 Posts Drives: %D0%97%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0 Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (0)	The turbo 4s from MB and BMW sound awful. The Audi,s 4 turbo is not much better. Now I don't know if it's due to the fact that I6 N55 is such a smooth engine due to its design or that the 4 turbo is inherently a noisy and "rattley" engine??
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05-30-2016, 02:07 AM	#11
M235iguy Lieutenant 168 Rep 439 Posts Drives: 2016 M235ix Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah iTrader: (2)	Only Mazda I have ever been interested in was the RX7 __________________ 2016 ///M235ix \| MP Grilles \| MP Pedals \| Gloss Black M235i Badge \| Dinan CAI \| Dinan tune \| Dinmann CF Diffuser \| MP CF Spoiler \| CF mirrors \| M2 CF interior \| M2 Steering wheel
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05-30-2016, 11:27 AM	#14
JohnnyCanuck Major 1254 Rep 1,352 Posts Drives: 2018 Audi RS3 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Vancouver iTrader: (1)	Had a MB C class rental in Phoenix last year. Not overly impressed. Then again, never really been an MB fan (find them too blingy for my taste). One thing I really did like was the nav ... the integrated Garmin nav was really good. Before my E90, I had a Mazdaspeed 6. That car was freaking awesome. Stupid fast, awesome handling, great driver's car. It was a lease so I chose not to buy it out (the only car I have ever leased), but I wish I had actually bought it from day 1 and would have kept it for years longer.
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06-02-2016, 03:17 PM	#22
angelbones Private First Class 43 Rep 193 Posts Drives: V.O. 228i Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: United States iTrader: (0)	Just a couple quick responses. It appears that you are talking about the MB C300 SEDAN, not the coupe, and not really an equal comparison to the 2 series. I've been in the coupe and it is miles ahead of the last gen C250 (although the C450 AMG is very nice, it's a different price category). It felt and looks like a mini-S class, which is a compliment, and really is a very attractive car. Interior is superb. Of course, performance wise, it's not even close to the 228i, much less the M235. Furthermore, halfway decent equipped, it's still $50k. Also, regarding Mazda, even C&D says that they have a great lineup and really should be selling more cars than they do. I had a Mazda RX-8 for about 5 years and I loved it. Best handling car I've ever owned with a 50/50 weight distribution. I know you referenced the Mazda 3 (again a sedan), but if they had kept building the RX-8 and updating (such as some of the concepts I've seen), I would certainly be cross shopping a Mazda coupe. It's just that they don't make one now. I suppose a truism I posted two years ago remains valid today: What COUPE truly compares to the 2-series? The answer is there is none with equivalent size, style, price, tradition, etc.
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