[9t2hoo]

I thought I would see whether any of you are interested in it, before I put it on an auction site. I have a new car coming in November (or perhaps December, depending on production schedules) and so please understand that I don't want to sell my current car until I actually have the new one.

Let me tell you about the car I'm selling. It's a 2017 M240i in Estoril Blue with the Terra interior. It has fair amount of mods, and so the right buyer is an enthusiast who would appreciate what the car is. Here are some key details: (1) it has 49,000 miles; (2) it is a 6MT; (3) it has no sunroof, but does have every other factory option except the parking assistant; (4) it has the M Performance LSD, the Rogue Engineering SSK, KW DDC plug and play coilovers (currently lowered 1"), M2 lower control arms and tension struts, and BBS CHR wheels in titanium finish (8" front and 9" rear); (5) I have never tuned the engine; and (6) the tires are Michelin PS 4S in stock sizes with about 2,000 miles on them.

The car has never been in an accident or had any paint work. The car has an excellent and fully documented maintenance history. The car received a new OEM turbo and catalytic converter last month at a BMW dealership. It also got new OEM rotors and EBC yellow stuff pads this summer. I haven't tracked the car, but it has done about 12 autocross events.

[John in VA]

We have the same color combo! If you weren't aware, there is a classified section & regional section where you might post this. Good luck!
https://www.2addicts.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=555
https://www.2addicts.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=560

[9t2hoo]

Originally Posted by John in VA

We have the same color combo! If you weren't aware, there is a classified section & regional section where you might post this. Good luck!
https://www.2addicts.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=555
https://www.2addicts.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=560

Thanks. I'm not very savvy when it comes to this forum. I'll post it there as well tonight. But I was also hoping that people would chime in on ideas to sell the car. (I realize that most people on this forum probably already own a 2 series and aren't interested in another one.)

I should have also mentioned that the car has a Remus Race exhaust (non-resonated) with carbon fiber tips.

[JMcLellan]

I will provide my candid feedback/advice. Prepare yourself to be disappointed with potential buyers and the price that people will offer. The used car market has dropped significantly over the last few months and I ran into a buzz saw when I tried to sell my M240i April thru June this year. I opted to keep the car since all the offers were so much lower than expected. This was my experience and I hope yours is less frustrating

Potential buyers will also not see any mods, maintenance, etc as adding any value to the car. In fact some people may see it as decreasing the value. You might be able to find a unicorn who appreciates those things and sees the value in them but will be hard to find.

I like the classified section on this forum as well and when I had my car posted there for a while there were some nice interactions with members who both provided general feedback and who were also interested in the car. Folks will keep you honest on your price and overall opinion of the car. Also, there are a few BMW 2 series Facebook groups you could join to interact with car enthusiasts who would understand what they are getting with your car.

I do really like the color combo on your car and having the 6mt is a big plus. Whoever ends up buying your car will be getting a very cool ride. Good luck!

Can I ask what new car you are getting in Nov/Dec??

[9t2hoo]

Thanks for the advice. I'm bracing myself for dealing with potential buyers. I'm also debating whether I should pull the mods off the car and sell them separately. It's costly to remove them and that may weigh against doing it, but they may have some value independently.

I've also thought about trying to sell the car on a place like Cars and Bids. They actually had an M240i sell this year for about $34,000! That may be an outlier, but it gives me hope. What do you think of an auction?

To answer your question, I'm getting a Cayman S. I spent my entire enthusiast adult life having cars I could put child seats into. My oldest went to college this year and that leaves just one 16 year-old at home (perfectly fine for a two-seater).

[JMcLellan]

Originally Posted by 9t2hoo

Thanks for the advice. I'm bracing myself for dealing with potential buyers. I'm also debating whether I should pull the mods off the car and sell them separately. It's costly to remove them and that may weigh against doing it, but they may have some value independently.

I've also thought about trying to sell the car on a place like Cars and Bids. They actually had an M240i sell this year for about $34,000! That may be an outlier, but it gives me hope. What do you think of an auction?

To answer your question, I'm getting a Cayman S. I spent my entire enthusiast adult life having cars I could put child seats into. My oldest went to college this year and that leaves just one 16 year-old at home (perfectly fine for a two-seater).

I do like the idea of selling the mods off separately. Definitely an option worth weighing. Auction sites have fees so I would want to know what those are prior to listing. You could list it with a reserve price to cover yourself and see what happens. An auction is nice since you will have an outcome pretty quickly and the timing is predictable. Regardless of it selling at auction might be a good way to assess value??

I was hoping to get $37 to $38K for my car as that's what Kelley Blue Book had as private party sale value when I looked it up in April. My car is a 2019 and had about 32K miles when it was for sale. Best offer I got was $33K from a local dealer. Looking back on that (given more sliding in the market) that would be a good offer now.

Congrats on the new Porsche! That will be a ton of fun. I'm a few years behind you with 2 younger boys and still need a 4 seater car. The new M2 and Porsche 911 were on my hot list for the next car if mine would have sold.

[9t2hoo]

Originally Posted by JMcLellan

Congrats on the new Porsche! That will be a ton of fun. I'm a few years behind you with 2 younger boys and still need a 4 seater car. The new M2 and Porsche 911 were on my hot list for the next car if mine would have sold.

So the trick is you buy a Cayman over the 911 and you use the money you save to get a Camry when you're on kid duty. Seriously, though, you'll be good and ready for a two seater when they grow up. It goes by really quickly.

In terms of mods to remove, the exhaust is the prime candidate. The wheels are obviously easy. But the LSD isn't going anywhere and removing coilovers is expensive. I may have to take a hybrid approach.

Yes, I need to investigate the fees for auction sites. For some reason, I think I read that Cars and Bids does not have a fee yet.

The other option, of course, is to put it in Autotrader at a set price and just wait to find exactly the right buyer. I don't have to sell the car by any particular date.

[BlueberryPie]

Originally Posted by 9t2hoo

So the trick is you buy a Cayman over the 911 and you use the money you save to get a Camry when you're on kid duty. Seriously, though, you'll be good and ready for a two seater when they grow up. It goes by really quickly.

In terms of mods to remove, the exhaust is the prime candidate. The wheels are obviously easy. But the LSD isn't going anywhere and removing coilovers is expensive. I may have to take a hybrid approach.

Yes, I need to investigate the fees for auction sites. For some reason, I think I read that Cars and Bids does not have a fee yet.

The other option, of course, is to put it in Autotrader at a set price and just wait to find exactly the right buyer. I don't have to sell the car by any particular date.

Beautiful car and love what you've done with it! Good luck with the sale, just wanted to share what Cars and Bids says about fees:

"Buyers pay a 4.5% commission, capped at $4,500. Sellers list for free and receive 100% of the sale price."

[9t2hoo]

Originally Posted by BlueberryPie

Beautiful car and love what you've done with it! Good luck with the sale, just wanted to share what Cars and Bids says about fees:

"Buyers pay a 4.5% commission, capped at $4,500. Sellers list for free and receive 100% of the sale price."

Thank you for the kind words and the information.

[JMcLellan]

Originally Posted by 9t2hoo

So the trick is you buy a Cayman over the 911 and you use the money you save to get a Camry when you're on kid duty. Seriously, though, you'll be good and ready for a two seater when they grow up. It goes by really quickly.

In terms of mods to remove, the exhaust is the prime candidate. The wheels are obviously easy. But the LSD isn't going anywhere and removing coilovers is expensive. I may have to take a hybrid approach.

Yes, I need to investigate the fees for auction sites. For some reason, I think I read that Cars and Bids does not have a fee yet.

The other option, of course, is to put it in Autotrader at a set price and just wait to find exactly the right buyer. I don't have to sell the car by any particular date.

The wife really really likes 911's, and especially vintage ones so I don't see any other option for getting a Porsche. The plan would be to have a secondary car for needing more space and when the car is parked for the winter. I can get around our MN winters with my M240i, but the Porsche would not see snow thus requiring another car.

[9t2hoo]

Originally Posted by JMcLellan

The wife really really likes 911's, and especially vintage ones so I don't see any other option for getting a Porsche. The plan would be to have a secondary car for needing more space and when the car is parked for the winter. I can get around our MN winters with my M240i, but the Porsche would not see snow thus requiring another car.

What a wife! Mine does not exactly feel that way. I would definitely go the 911 route then. And also get an inexpensive car to beat on in the winter. We have a Mazda3 Turbo. For $29,000, it has AWD, 320 lbs-feet, and it's reliable and cheap to maintain. It keeps the miles on my good car low and gives me something to drive to places where, for example, I might get dinged in a parking lot.

[XutvJet]

Nice ride. Right now I would do the following:

- Pull all suspension parts and sell.
- Pull the BBS wheels and separate the tires. Sell separately as it is FAR easier to sell and make the most money.
- Pull and sell the exhaust.

Figure you'll only recoup 30-40% of what you paid for these parts. It is what is, but you'll come out ahead. Rarely do people offer more money for a modded car. It's usually less.

A slick top 6MT M235 with an LSD will certainly fetch more than far more common automatic RWD and xdrive M235s out there. In the ad, really make sure to focus on the car having an LSD, 6MT, and no moonroof. Make no mention of lack of tuning unless asked.

The biggest issue here is interest rates. It's really affected people's purchasing power on $20K+ used vehicles. Assuming you need the cash flow by the time the Cayman shows, I'd yank all these parts ASAP and list it for sale by mid October as it may linger for a month or more until the right buyer shows.

As for the Cayman, congrats. You'll love it. Back in October 2022, I got a 2011 Cayman Base 6MT 265hp with a very rare LSD, 19" Carrera wheels, Sport Chrono, HID and Sport seat options. I also still have my, owned since new, 2016 M235 slick top 6MT with an LSD, Stage 2 mods, and some wheel, tire, and suspension bits. I thought my M235 handled well until I got the Cayman. It now feels like a wet porkchop in terms of handling The M235 is faster above 50mph, but in terms of handling? It's nothing compared to even 13 y/o Cayman on the ORIGINAL stock base suspension.

[9t2hoo]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Nice ride. Right now I would do the following:

- Pull all suspension parts and sell.
- Pull the BBS wheels and separate the tires. Sell separately as it is FAR easier to sell and make the most money.
- Pull and sell the exhaust.

Figure you'll only recoup 30-40% of what you paid for these parts. It is what is, but you'll come out ahead. Rarely do people offer more money for a modded car. It's usually less.

A slick top 6MT M235 with an LSD will certainly fetch more than far more common automatic RWD and xdrive M235s out there. In the ad, really make sure to focus on the car having an LSD, 6MT, and no moonroof. Make no mention of lack of tuning unless asked.

The biggest issue here is interest rates. It's really affected people's purchasing power on $20K+ used vehicles. Assuming you need the cash flow by the time the Cayman shows, I'd yank all these parts ASAP and list it for sale by mid October as it may linger for a month or more until the right buyer shows.

As for the Cayman, congrats. You'll love it. Back in October 2022, I got a 2011 Cayman Base 6MT 265hp with a very rare LSD, 19" Carrera wheels, Sport Chrono, HID and Sport seat options. I also still have my, owned since new, 2016 M235 slick top 6MT with an LSD, Stage 2 mods, and some wheel, tire, and suspension bits. I thought my M235 handled well until I got the Cayman. It now feels like a wet porkchop in terms of handling The M235 is faster above 50mph, but in terms of handling? It's nothing compared to even 13 y/o Cayman on the ORIGINAL stock base suspension.

Thank you for the well-considered advice. I agree that the 6MT, LSD and no sunroof makes this a special car. I think I will definitely sell the BBS wheels separately. I need the tires, though, for the car. I will probably sell the exhaust separately. The suspension is a tougher call because the cost to switch back to stock is high. I'm still thinking about that.

I don't need the money to buy the Cayman. I can wait until the spring or later to find the right buyer. And I'm definitely not going to sell the car before the Cayman arrives. I'm sure you remember that ship fire last year. Until the car is on this continent, there is no guarantee I will ever get it.

You are absolutely right about the handling of the Cayman. I autocross with PCA and I've ridden in several of them. It's like being on a roller coaster. I have a close friend who just bought a 2023 Cayman GTS 4.0. I consider it a victory when I finish within 3 seconds of him! I have really loved the M240i (the best car I've owned and that includes an E46 M3 back in the day), but it's meant for high speeds and not the kind of curves you see at autocross. Still, it's been a good learning experience competing against people who have PDK and lightweight cars. It really forces you to focus on fundamentals.

I've seen you talk about your Cayman in various posts over the years. That's a special car too. If I didn't have the go-ahead from my wife to buy a new one, I would feel especially lucky to find a 987.2 like yours. It fixes the flaws from the 2006-08 cars, but still retains that very analog feel. I actually saw a 987.1 on sale for $34k recently and toyed with buying it, but it required a ton of work (including dealing with mostly worn out seats) Anyway, I can't wait to get the new car and experience a different level of performance.

[leftoverture]

Originally Posted by JMcLellan

The wife really really likes 911's, and especially vintage ones so I don't see any other option for getting a Porsche. The plan would be to have a secondary car for needing more space and when the car is parked for the winter. I can get around our MN winters with my M240i, but the Porsche would not see snow thus requiring another car.

The 911 would do quite well in winter with the right tires. I've saw one out last winter and I thought it cool the owner was driving it year round.

[albertw]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

As for the Cayman, congrats. You'll love it. Back in October 2022, I got a 2011 Cayman Base 6MT 265hp with a very rare LSD, 19" Carrera wheels, Sport Chrono, HID and Sport seat options. I also still have my, owned since new, 2016 M235 slick top 6MT with an LSD, Stage 2 mods, and some wheel, tire, and suspension bits. I thought my M235 handled well until I got the Cayman. It now feels like a wet porkchop in terms of handling The M235 is faster above 50mph, but in terms of handling? It's nothing compared to even 13 y/o Cayman on the ORIGINAL stock base suspension.

9t2hoo: "You are absolutely right about the handling of the Cayman."

I am struggling with the decision to order a new Cayman and I am looking for some advice.

There seems to be no doubt that the Cayman is a better handling car, as well as a better integrated machine. My question for you two and any others with relevant experience is, is it more fun on a twisty road? I assume your answers will be yes, but I want to know why, as specifically as possible.

(The nearest Porsche dealer is about 4 hours away from a good road, and getting a long enough test drive to find out for myself appears to be impossible.)

What matters to you might not matter to me. For example, no doubt it will be faster than my M240i on a tight twisty road, but that can be a mixed blessing if your area has a draconian excessive speed law.

The Cayman has some problems for my use. Noise on long freeway drones, and limited carrying capacity for what would be my only car on the days when my wife needs her SUV. So I need to be sure it will be more fun than my M240i to justify changing cars.

(I was set on a CT4V Blackwing MT until I found out that dealers in backwoods Canada can't get them. I don't want to be many hours away from the selling dealer, and I don't want my car to be the first the local mechanics have seen. That would have been a car with no compromises for me.)

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by albertw

9t2hoo: "You are absolutely right about the handling of the Cayman."

I am struggling with the decision to order a new Cayman and I am looking for some advice.

There seems to be no doubt that the Cayman is a better handling car, as well as a better integrated machine. My question for you two and any others with relevant experience is, is it more fun on a twisty road? I assume your answers will be yes, but I want to know why, as specifically as possible.

(The nearest Porsche dealer is about 4 hours away from a good road, and getting a long enough test drive to find out for myself appears to be impossible.)

What matters to you might not matter to me. For example, no doubt it will be faster than my M240i on a tight twisty road, but that can be a mixed blessing if your area has a draconian excessive speed law.

The Cayman has some problems for my use. Noise on long freeway drones, and limited carrying capacity for what would be my only car on the days when my wife needs her SUV. So I need to be sure it will be more fun than my M240i to justify changing cars.

My 2011 Cayman Base 6MT was intended to be my fun car and my M235 my daily. I love driving my Cayman so much that my M235 sits almost all the time if temps are above 40 and dry. My Cayman weighs a crack under 3000lbs and has 265hp and 221tq, all the power from 4500-7200 rpns and pretty gutless below 4000rpms. At best, it's a mid 13 second car while my M235 is mid 12s. However, the Cayman feels plenty quick around town and is very lively and responsive whereas the M235 way more muted and laggy in comparison. Off the line, the Cayman just leaps and goes and wheelspin is never an issue. When sitting much lower and in a smaller car and the controls WAY more connected, the Cayman feels faster than it really is. Sub 70mph driving is extremely fun and every drive feels like a race and an experience. Chasing the 7500rpm redline is so fun too. The car just sounds and feels alive especially with that motor buzzing right behind you. With not a ton of power/torque on tap, so much grip, and perfect balance, the car never feels out of control. All controls a heavy, but linear. Everything about the car feels substantial and well engineered.

I used to think my M235 was a great sports car. Now it feels entirely different too me and lacks much driver connection and feels artificial. It actually makes me sad to see my M235 that way now.

As for room, the frunk as a ton of space and the rear hatch good room too. I don't find the car overly loud. I drove mine 700 miles from the dealer when I bought it and it didn't beat me up and I was comfy. The 981 and 718 Caymans are way more refined than mine. I considered the 981, but I wanted a more analog car.

[9t2hoo]

I don't know if you're thinking new or used. What I can say about the 718 is that the limits are super high, substantially higher than the M240i. You could drive faster on twisty roads in a Cayman, but the 240 can already double the speed limit. I don't know that the extra handling of the Cayman on the street will be worth it to you. I'm buying one with autocross and track cross in mind. If you want to do that, then definitely go with the Cayman.

I've autocrossed my car and driven in several Caymans while other folks drove them in autocross, and I can tell you that the Cayman is more fun. To be specific, as you requested: the front end grip is unreal (it helps not to have an engine there), the brakes are insane, the lower weight and balance make a huge difference, and the ability to fit larger tires is extremely helpful. But I would not say that the 240 gets destroyed. I've beaten Caymans with OK drivers and come within a few seconds of Caymans with good drivers. The 240 is a very capable car when pushed. And driving a traditional front engine RWD car at the limit has its own rewards. You have to be very careful with the throttle to maintain balance at the limit. The 240 doesn't have the kind of unflappable composure at the limit like a Cayman. With that said, I think there is definitely something to pushing a less capable car closer to its limit, as XutvJet describes.

I'm also buying a Cayman for reasons unrelated to raw performance. I've had to have kid haulers for the last 18 years. I want a two-seater and the Cayman is really the best option without dropping serious six figures. The fit and finish and overall quality is excellent. It's on a another level than the 240, which I still consider to be a great all-around car.

Anyway, I have no idea if this is helpful to you. If you have any other questions, just let me know.

[albertw]

Thanks, Xutvjet and 9t2hoo!

You've reinforced my thinking on this. Here are the tradeoffs as I see them.

The Cayman is a better car in almost every way, including important ones such as steering feedback and function of the controls. (I would be get a manual transmission in the Cayman, but I didn't want the one that BMW makes.) I expect it to be much more satisfying to drive every day and at moderate speeds in corners. But satisfaction is only part of fun.

There's also challenge and thrill, and for me those come from reading a winding road and running corner after corner near the limit. On those I guess that the two cars are more evenly matched, with maybe a bit of an advantage for the M240i for my style of driving. The M240i has lower limits that can be approached on more corners and the imperfect behaviour at the limit simply increases the challenge. I can easily sense when the front tires start to slide, so the better steering of the Cayman is less of an advantage at the limit.

The Cayman is more like a motorcycle, I imagine. On a bike I don't want to slide the tires at all, and in a Cayman I would seldom run a corner fast enough to break traction. I ride the twisties for the challenge of reading the road and the marvellous dynamics of the machine, and those would probably be my main sources of fun in the twisties in a Cayman. The thrill of occasionally sliding the car would be missing.

Thanks again for helping me sharpen my thinking on a new Cayman. Unfortunately I'm not sure it brings me closer to a decision. At 75, this will be my last enthusiast car and I want to get it right. (I always buy new so switching cars after a year or two to correct a mistake is financially painful.)

[9t2hoo]

Originally Posted by albertw

Thanks, Xutvjet and 9t2hoo!

You've reinforced my thinking on this. Here are the tradeoffs as I see them.

The Cayman is a better car in almost every way, including important ones such as steering feedback and function of the controls. (I would be get a manual transmission in the Cayman, but I didn't want the one that BMW makes.) I expect it to be much more satisfying to drive every day and at moderate speeds in corners. But satisfaction is only part of fun.

There's also challenge and thrill, and for me those come from reading a winding road and running corner after corner near the limit. On those I guess that the two cars are more evenly matched, with maybe a bit of an advantage for the M240i for my style of driving. The M240i has lower limits that can be approached on more corners and the imperfect behaviour at the limit simply increases the challenge. I can easily sense when the front tires start to slide, so the better steering of the Cayman is less of an advantage at the limit.

The Cayman is more like a motorcycle, I imagine. On a bike I don't want to slide the tires at all, and in a Cayman I would seldom run a corner fast enough to break traction. I ride the twisties for the challenge of reading the road and the marvellous dynamics of the machine, and those would probably be my main sources of fun in the twisties in a Cayman. The thrill of occasionally sliding the car would be missing.

Thanks again for helping me sharpen my thinking on a new Cayman. Unfortunately I'm not sure it brings me closer to a decision. At 75, this will be my last enthusiast car and I want to get it right. (I always buy new so switching cars after a year or two to correct a mistake is financially painful.)

I would just note that 2024 is likely the last year for the ICE Cayman. I would bear that in mind as you're considering your options. (And I think that you definitely wouldn't lose any money on it because the used market will go crazy once the Cayman becomes an EV.)

[XutvJet]

At 75, I would absolutely get a Cayman. I can get my Cayman to slide around a bit and I'm certain I could do it more so if mine didn’t have an LSD and wasn't on summer rubber. As you get used to the dynamics and limits, you can hustle and hammer these cars in the curves and its fun as hell. My M235 has an LSD, square 245 MP4S tires, Dinan springs, and Bilstein rear shocks, and that car is way better handling than stock but feels far less controlled and stable than the Cayman. The power delivery in the Cayman is so tractable whereas the turbo power of the M235 needs some restraint.

[Nickies]

Originally Posted by albertw

Thanks, Xutvjet and 9t2hoo!

You've reinforced my thinking on this. Here are the tradeoffs as I see them.

The Cayman is a better car in almost every way, including important ones such as steering feedback and function of the controls. (I would be get a manual transmission in the Cayman, but I didn't want the one that BMW makes.) I expect it to be much more satisfying to drive every day and at moderate speeds in corners. But satisfaction is only part of fun.

There's also challenge and thrill, and for me those come from reading a winding road and running corner after corner near the limit. On those I guess that the two cars are more evenly matched, with maybe a bit of an advantage for the M240i for my style of driving. The M240i has lower limits that can be approached on more corners and the imperfect behaviour at the limit simply increases the challenge. I can easily sense when the front tires start to slide, so the better steering of the Cayman is less of an advantage at the limit.

The Cayman is more like a motorcycle, I imagine. On a bike I don't want to slide the tires at all, and in a Cayman I would seldom run a corner fast enough to break traction. I ride the twisties for the challenge of reading the road and the marvellous dynamics of the machine, and those would probably be my main sources of fun in the twisties in a Cayman. The thrill of occasionally sliding the car would be missing.

Thanks again for helping me sharpen my thinking on a new Cayman. Unfortunately I'm not sure it brings me closer to a decision. At 75, this will be my last enthusiast car and I want to get it right. (I always buy new so switching cars after a year or two to correct a mistake is financially painful.)

The M240i has never been intended to be a sports car but a Performance GT cruiser. The Car Magazines reviewers back in the days craved about the M2 but always said would you rather need the M240i being less expensive and practical for everyday use.

To compare the old 2 Series configuration to a newer Porsche being a real sports car, always created confusion and so much negative comments. This would be interesting to have a far more balanced opinion from somebody owning the new M240i.

[WolfGTI]

All this Cayman talk - I had to join. So I've had my name on 3 Porsche dealers lists since late 2021 trying to get a Cayman GT4 (15K ADM). I had some hope until June this year when Porsche put the car out of production. One dealer actually sent me a 'You're next" email in May and then the production run ended.

The upside is they moved me to a Cayman GTS 4.0 (no ADM) and I will be getting that car. My build slot should come up in November and lock by December. I am guessing delivery by Q2 2024. I intend to keep the M240i as the all year round car and the Cayman will only come out in summer. I plan on only doing headers, OAPs, exhaust and wheels on the Cayman. Having driven a GT4 and a GT3 this summer at the track, all I can say is wow.. GT3 is such a dream but out of my wallet league with college coming in 2 years for my daughter. Plus I really cannot stomach a 50-75k ADM on the GT3.