[ecaedus]

anyone has a similar short list for cars in the m235i range? heres what im considering as replacement for my car: S3, TTS, golf R, maybe mustang GT

not cla though, it looks ugly in person, and it's quite more expensive than the cars above

[w3rkn]

I see the M235i heavily discounted once the new Mustang hits the streets.


Just don't see how BMW will be able to compete with a $36,000 Mustang (stock), that comes stock with a LSD. Specially when the new Mustang has more universal performance than a 302 Boss.

Don't see how the M4 can compete either, let-alone a M235i.
BMW overpriced their cars, thinking Chevy & Ford can't compete. But one peruse through NAIAS reveals why those Execs were so nervous at the M3/M4 reveal.

Because BMW got a good look at the $52k Corvette. (My 135is was $52k.. )

[YellowMellow]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

I see the M235i heavily discounted once the new Mustang hits the streets.


Just don't see how BMW will be able to compete with a $36,000 Mustang (stock), that comes stock with a LSD. Specially when the new Mustang has more universal performance than a 302 Boss.

Don't see how the M4 can compete either, let-alone a M235i.
BMW overpriced their cars, thinking Chevy & Ford can't compete. But one peruse through NAIAS reveals why those Execs were so nervous at the M3/M4 reveal.

Because BMW got a good look at the $52k Corvette. (My 135is was $52k.. )

Good point but I'm not sure it's just about performance numbers.

For example, the Nissan GT-R's performance can blow away the likes of Ferrari, Lambo, Porsches, etc. at more than 3x times less cost but people continue to buy Ferrari, Lambo, Porsches.

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by YellowMellow

Good point but I'm not sure it's just about performance numbers.

For example, the Nissan GT-R's performance can blow away the likes of Ferrari, Lambo, Porsches, etc. at more than 3x times less cost but people continue to buy Ferrari, Lambo, Porsches.

That is my point.

BMW's actual performance number never really mattered before, because there was a pure car behind the badge. Now that it is tarnished, other manufactures are being recognized.

Secondly, how does BMW justify a $48k M235i in the face of a $52k Corvette and a $38k Mustang..? It's more than just performance numbers..


Walk around NAIAS.. it more than evident.

[YellowMellow]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

That is my point.

BMW's actual performance number never really mattered before, because there was a pure car behind the badge. Now that it is tarnished, other manufactures are being recognized.

Secondly, how does BMW justify a $48k M235i in the face of a $52k Corvette and a $38k Mustang..? It's more than just performance numbers..


Walk around NAIAS.. it more than evident.

What do you mean, "...Now that it is tarnished, other manufactures are being recognized"

[ecaedus]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

That is my point.

BMW's actual performance number never really mattered before, because there was a pure car behind the badge. Now that it is tarnished, other manufactures are being recognized.

Secondly, how does BMW justify a $48k M235i in the face of a $52k Corvette and a $38k Mustang..? It's more than just performance numbers..


Walk around NAIAS.. it more than evident.

good point but i think corvette is a full on sport car rather than a sporty daily driver like the m235i. also the price of the corvette is a base one, add a few options its gonna hit 64k real soon. i sat in the c7 when it was in LA auto show, the interior quality is definitely on par if not better than a 4 series. mostly soft touch materials wherever you touch.
corvette doesnt offer the practicality of the m235i and its a good chunk above it in price as well.

however the mustang is a different story, ive not seen the interior yet but from all the rumors, the performance of the new GT is perhaps better than the E92 M3, which means it will probably go around m235i all day. with th upgraded styling and somewhat useful trunk and emergency backseat, the mustang creates a very good case for itself. but whether it can jump out of the rental car class remains to be seen. it all comes down to quality of material and the overall refineness of the car, i honestly dont think a lot of people are going to spend over half of their time in a m235i on the track, so day to day stuff matters. if the new mustang can get it right then its definitely serious competition for bmw.

[bimmerfile]

[QUOTE=w3rkn;15321563]I see the M235i heavily discounted once the new Mustang hits the streets.
QUOTE]


Put down the crack pipe and step away from your car...

[unintelligible]

Originally Posted by ecaedus

if the new mustang can get it right then its definitely serious competition for bmw.

+1... I like the M235i, S3, etc but the Mustang is definitely on my list. I had a Fusion Titanium as a rental and the interior was surprisingly good. That was in contrast to the Mustang GT Premium I had rented a couple years ago, it felt much cheaper.

If a higher trim S550 is anything like the Fusion Titanium in terms of build & materials, and is as much of a hoot to drive as the last one, I'd be very tempted.

[vinny84]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

That is my point.

BMW's actual performance number never really mattered before, because there was a pure car behind the badge. Now that it is tarnished, other manufactures are being recognized.

Secondly, how does BMW justify a $48k M235i in the face of a $52k Corvette and a $38k Mustang..? It's more than just performance numbers..


Walk around NAIAS.. it more than evident.

I don't agree with this. BMW brand is tarnished how? I'm curious.

Similar price points but different cars, especially the Corvette.

You're also talking base prices and you're off $4k with the M235i. $48k for a M235i is moderately equipped. $44,025 is the base with Destination included.

Start ticking options on the Mustang and Corvette and surely you'll see the prices creep up.

Also fwiw, the M235i also includes the ZF 8spd, and M Adaptive Suspension as standard. (US Spec)

Not saying the M235i is the better buy. I'm also excited about the new Mustang and new Corvette, but those cars don't fit the description for a lot of people. For a second car, for sure.

To keep it on topic, I also do like the new Audi S3 and think it's great for someone looking for 4 doors as the 2er GC is not present yet. I think Audi will sell a lot of these.

A lot of awesome cars coming down the pipeline

[Ramos]

Most non enthusiast BMW buyers (read 90%) of buyers are badge whores and will never cross shop a Ford. I agree with you though on the value proposition of the upcoming Mustang, in fact I own Ford stock and believe as a company that they are making all the right moves.

[bimmer4life24]

I was just at the Chicago Auto Show and I must say after looking at both the M235i and S3, the M235i has a much better interior IMO. Granted it was the interior of the A3 but the S3 will be the exact same minus the seats. The Audi just looked super basic, screaming entry level. Also, everything was very tight inside. It is a very small sedan. Now I know why it's around 3,200lbs.

As for exteriors, the M235i looks MUCH better in person than in pictures. The car just looks much sexier.

From interior to exterior, M235i wins in my book. But it will still come down to the test drives. I really wish the M235i came with a DCT. There would be no debate in my mind.

[number1draftpick]

Likewise, saw both at the Portland Auto show.

My impressions of the A3 weren't as bad. I thought that the leather was nice and like options like the Panorama sunroof. I will agree though that the dash/center console is pretty spartan, almost like something is missing.

Overall, I didn't think low quality though.

As for the exterior, you pretty much now what you are getting. Its like an A4 that was crushed a little. Looks nice but can look a little "short" from some angles. Still prefer that to a whale though. I think that the S4 will be quite compelling.

[YellowMellow]

Originally Posted by bimmer4life24

I was just at the Chicago Auto Show and I must say after looking at both the M235i and S3, the M235i has a much better interior IMO. Granted it was the interior of the A3 but the S3 will be the exact same minus the seats. The Audi just looked super basic, screaming entry level. Also, everything was very tight inside. It is a very small sedan. Now I know why it's around 3,200lbs.

As for exteriors, the M235i looks MUCH better in person than in pictures. The car just looks much sexier.

From interior to exterior, M235i wins in my book. But it will still come down to the test drives. I really wish the M235i came with a DCT. There would be no debate in my mind.

I think more importantly, it also comes down to whether you want 2 door vs 4 door and RWD vs AWD.

Personally I like both but the S3 (while small) is more practical with 4 doors and AWD.

[bimmer4life24]

Forgot to add that the exterior of the S3 looks beautiful as well. I just prefer the interior of the M235i appears much better. Don't get me wrong, the dash/steering, gearbox and around look great in the S3, but the center console just looks empty and boring compared to the M235i.

[bimmer4life24]

Audi makes it look much better in their photos but here is a real life photo of the center console. You be the judge

[Red Bread]

Looks clean to me. I also think the nav screen can be lowered, unlike the lump on current BMWs.

[ska///235i]

Also keep in mind that the quattro on the S3 is a VW AWD system and not the same quattro of other audi...that was another turnoff for me

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by ska325xi

Also keep in mind that the quattro on the S3 is a VW AWD system and not the same quattro of other audi...that was another turnoff for me

Haldex vs full time, however the latest version of Haldex apparently sends an undisclosed amount of power to the rear and can send "nearly" 100% to the rears, which is up from 90% in the last version and only 60% in the older version that Mercedes chose for the CLA45.

The bigger issue remains VW/Audi's love of hanging the motor over the front axle.

[m981addicts]

Maybe, if an RS3 materializes since there won't be a 2GC or M2GC. Audi salesmen like to compare their S models to Bmw's M. However, we know better.

[mattssi]

That Audi interior is BLAH. Usually I'm +1 on the Audi interior all day, but that A/S3 is very cheap looking.

[ska///235i]

Thank god Im not the only one saying the interior is cheap...dirt cheap

[Red Bread]

You know, I didn't mind it in the photo above, but looking at the press photos, the area under the hvac really looks half baked:


Having owned a few Audii, the interior always looks nice, but is cheaply made. Things that you can easily take apart on a BMW and get back together with no trouble seem to always lead to broken fasteners and snapped trim on the Audis I've messed with.