[Chack]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

Id do a rolling 5mph to 80mph (don't hurt yourselves)

That's going to be tough. Going to need a lot of space for a run like that (likely a empty long straight).

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Researcher

Like I said, it is all relative to preference. Both are great cars. The new one has been reviewed by just about every magazine out there as not only the best evolution but also as possibly the best BMW builds today.

True...but magazines exist to do what? Sell magazines...and those people are invited to press events and loaned cars by the manufacturers themselves, so....perhaps it could be construed that it is in the best interests of the magazine to produce an article that more complimentary than it has to be.

Think of Chris Harris and Ferrari a while back...they wouldn't loan him anything to review after one of his "honest" reviews, in which he did not provide a glowing review of a certain Ferrari...

Hence you stick to the company line, and you sell magazines. Aka, everyone wins. My point is that a favorable or non-favorable review by an entity that is completely reliant upon car makers to provide it with the materials needed to sell their respective product may not be the most unbiased review. Maybe.

Additionally, today Chack and I agreed that the M235 was better in the following ways:

Better A/C;
Better winshield wiper fluid;
Bigger back seat;
Better glove box
Better battery area in the trunk;

I jest...I jest...

[jeremicium]

I think it's the "fun-to-drive" factor that wins out with the N54 135. The engine is a bit more frantic, the steering is heavier with better feel, and the car is a little more tail happy. Road tests show that the M235i is faster both in a straight line and on the track.

Not that I have much seat time in either, but there is no doubt in my mind that the chassis tuning in the M235i is superior. The car may feel softer, but it is so much more composed when pushed hard around corners and over uneven pavement. I walked away from the M235i test drive feeling that is was a fantastically engineered car, but not necessarily as fun as i had hoped for. (It was still good enough that i'd be happy in one)

Thing is, if the cars main purpose is track use, then fast wins out. If the main purpose is smiles, fun-to-drive factor wins. I'll take fun-to-drive every time.

[VMRWheels]

Hmm, interesting insight OP. Thanks for sharing

[danimal]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

The thing to remember is that I didn't say or mean to imply that the M235 "lost" or was smoked in any way - but it was definitely slower. Different drivers, same roads...which doesn't even matter that much to me. My main gripe is that an older, less attractive 1er still feels more engsging and sporty to me. That was something I had forgotten until yesterday.

One thing I forgot to mention, which I think would have an impact on feel, is that my car does not have the adaptive suspension. I'm not sure whether the adaptive suspension at its firmest is the same as the basic sport suspension or even firmer, and I'm also not sure how much the adaptive suspension softens in Sport or Sport+. The only thing I can say is that I'm very happy with the one degree of firmness my suspension has. It's substantially less harsh than my '07 328i in almost all situations, but it's still firm enough that I can feel what's going on underneath me (particularly important given the reduction in feel through the steering wheel). Compared with my 328i, there's a hint more body roll in the 228i, but the 228i also sticks to the road a little better over all but the sharpest bumps.

So, I wonder, could the adaptive suspension actually be reducing the fun a bit or does keeping the car in Sport or Sport+ keep it sport-suspension firm all the time?

As for speed, that's so much of an upgrade for me with the 228i, it's not even funny. I finally passed the break-in period about a week ago, and I just can't believe how this little 2.0-liter pulls. And yet, my mileage is still about 3 MPG better than my 328i on the same roads. In every way except low-RPM smoothness, I prefer the 2.0-liter turbo to the 230HP I6.

[BLK235iNJ]

I say do whatever your comfortable doing

Originally Posted by Chack

That's going to be tough. Going to need a lot of space for a run like that (likely a empty long straight).

[david.orr]

I believe it has to do a lot with expectations and OP, your expectations (from the 135) probably exceeded the real thing despite your initial apprehension. In addition, if and when we start to look for faults and shortcomings in our cars, we WILL find them. Umpteen threads and posts of such nature do unfortunately raise our expectations and/or fault awareness in our cars. Personally I had my AMG A45 briefly and eventually accepted that expectations and hype exceeded real car fun. I moved on and in your case, would suggest you should consider it too. It is possible that you may set (undelivered) expectations for the M2 based on your 235 experience.

[Daddycat]

Originally Posted by danimal

As for speed, that's so much of an upgrade for me with the 228i, it's not even funny. I finally passed the break-in period about a week ago, and I just can't believe how this little 2.0-liter pulls. And yet, my mileage is still about 3 MPG better than my 328i on the same roads. In every way except low-RPM smoothness, I prefer the 2.0-liter turbo to the 230HP I6.

I went from an '07 Corvette (400hp/400lb ft) to my 228i and don't miss the Vette at all--this 4-banger pulls like a freight train and is much more solid. Turbine-like in its smoothness. As fast or faster than my '93 NSX. I contend that 350 hp is the most anyone "needs" (can sanely use) on the street and this reinforces my opinion. That said, more power to the more power guys! (I may even do a chip down the road a bit...) Car's also a perfect size in this era of bloated boats, and the M suspension handles great! I love it.

[Daddycat]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

As I said in my original review, the M235 "felt" bigger to me after just a few days of ownership.
Additionally, and worse than my original impression in March, the M235 felt squishy and somewhat lazy in comparison to the N54 135. The E82 just feels more "urgent" in every way. The steering is tighter. The car feels more compact. The engine felt like it revved more quickly and had a better throttle response. And yes, I was driving in Sport + in the M235 and am in that mode 99% of the time anyway.

One thing I think most people don't appreciate is that cars aren't designed for the North American market any more--China is now the world's biggest market and they prefer cars that are big, quiet, and comfortable. Both BMW and Buick are doing great over there. In addition to this huge change in the target market, safety and efficiency nazis have made it darned near impossible for a manufacturer to turn out a product that differs markedly from the competition. That said, we're still in a golden age of performance--you can't argue with the numbers. Your average economy car handles as good as a 1990's sports car, and is faster than a 60's/70's muscle car.

[USPSALIMITED]

Originally Posted by Daddycat

One thing I think most people don't appreciate is that cars aren't designed for the North American market any more--China is now the world's biggest market and they prefer cars that are big, quiet, and comfortable. Both BMW and Buick are doing great over there. In addition to this huge change in the target market, safety and efficiency nazis have made it darned near impossible for a manufacturer to turn out a product that differs markedly from the competition. That said, we're still in a golden age of performance--you can't argue with the numbers. Your average economy car handles as good as a 1990's sports car, and is faster than a 60's/70's muscle car.

Chinese knock offs for some of the simple to make stuff that we are being gouged on (1100 msrp mufflers, 150 foot pedal covers, etc) would be very welcome. I wonder if that stuff is starting to show up?

Else I get your point except for "faster than a 60's/70's muscle car" . I think you wrote that last thing when you were sleepy .

[///MCFC]

Originally Posted by jeremicium

I think it's the "fun-to-drive" factor that wins out with the N54 135. The engine is a bit more frantic, the steering is heavier with better feel, and the car is a little more tail happy. Road tests show that the M235i is faster both in a straight line and on the track.

Not that I have much seat time in either, but there is no doubt in my mind that the chassis tuning in the M235i is superior. The car may feel softer, but it is so much more composed when pushed hard around corners and over uneven pavement. I walked away from the M235i test drive feeling that is was a fantastically engineered car, but not necessarily as fun as i had hoped for. (It was still good enough that i'd be happy in one)

Thing is, if the cars main purpose is track use, then fast wins out. If the main purpose is smiles, fun-to-drive factor wins. I'll take fun-to-drive every time.

re: highlighted part. just my .02 but i think the opposite is true. the 135 defaults to understeer in nearly every case. this has been documented by reviews and was noticeable (to me) even on the road. i find it far easier to get the tail out on my 235.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by jaffa12

I believe it has to do a lot with expectations and OP, your expectations (from the 135) probably exceeded the real thing despite your initial apprehension. In addition, if and when we start to look for faults and shortcomings in our cars, we WILL find them. Umpteen threads and posts of such nature do unfortunately raise our expectations and/or fault awareness in our cars. Personally I had my AMG A45 briefly and eventually accepted that expectations and hype exceeded real car fun. I moved on and in your case, would suggest you should consider it too. It is possible that you may set (undelivered) expectations for the M2 based on your 235 experience.

Your point in re: to the M2 is well taken - and maybe the thing for me to do is find an E46 M3 or something of that nature, that is truly involving from a driving perspective.

My main gripe is that the gain in luxury (aka, squishy) is coming via the loss of sportiness. Again, I don't mean in terms of 0-60 times or shit like that - just in terms of feel and involvement. Not that the N54 135 is the "ultimate" for that or anything, but it seems to have more of the "it" factor than the M235. IMO anyway.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by ///MCFC

re: highlighted part. just my .02 but i think the opposite is true. the 135 defaults to understeer in nearly every case. this has been documented by reviews and was noticeable (to me) even on the road. i find it far easier to get the tail out on my 235.

See I disagree - the M235 wallows about quite a bit, but doesn't seem tail happy to me at all. You have to really try to get the back end loose.

Turn all the nannies off in the N54 135, and you better be awake....

[///MCFC]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

See I disagree - the M235 wallows about quite a bit, but doesn't seem tail happy to me at all. You have to really try to get the back end loose.

Turn all the nannies off in the N54 135, and you better be awake....

though i stand by my opinion that a stock 235 is more neutral/rear biased than a 135, i should have mentioned that i do have the MP limited slip diff. it's a lot of fun and slides very predictably. maybe an LSD would make you like your car more? very expensive mod, i realize. but i got a killer deal on the car, so i was more willing to spend the $$.

[DCastaneda]

Originally Posted by Ed P

You've obviously never visited miata.net, and seen the NA/NB/NC (and now, ND) fanboy debates!

It's all just family bickering.

FT86Club is the same way. Those GT86/FR-S/BRZ owners are always on the defensive.

[bimmerbuff]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Remember, I had an N54 135, but then I had an N55 135 before getting the 2er. I have never liked the N55. It doesn't feel as strong down low and doesn't seem to pull with the same urgency as the N54 did.

I would agree with this - the N54 is by far my favorite (sound, feel, etc.) even with the early reliability problems.

Will be interesting to see what becomes of the N55 in the M2...

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by ///MCFC

though i stand by my opinion that a stock 235 is more neutral/rear biased than a 135, i should have mentioned that i do have the MP limited slip diff. it's a lot of fun and slides very predictably. maybe an LSD would make you like your car more? very expensive mod, i realize. but i got a killer deal on the car, so i was more willing to spend the $$.

I have considered that - but I also think the car suffers from tires that are too skinny - it was the same with the 135 too, both versions - so you're talking wheels, tires, and LSD at that point.

I am only 6 months into my lease, so I have some time to really look into other options - the M2, if confirgured well, solves all of these problems.

I am just not hopeful with the engine choice they've made...

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by bimmerbuff

I would agree with this - the N54 is by far my favorite (sound, feel, etc.) even with the early reliability problems.

Will be interesting to see what becomes of the N55 in the M2...

That's the biggest quesiton to me...if they just turn up the boost and add a little cooling, it's not going to be worth the premium over the M235.

Hence, why a detuned S55 would have been a lot better...

[nachob]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

That's the biggest quesiton to me...if they just turn up the boost and add a little cooling, it's not going to be worth the premium over the M235.

Hence, why a detuned S55 would have been a lot better...

The surge on the N54 is impressive, probably the twin turbo is the biggest reason and the sound is much better on the 135i, stock and the 1M, I must admit when I had the 1M I always wished for a little less lag. The N55 has slightly quicker throttle response so it's not a total waste for me. I think the softness and reduced sound make it feel slower than it really is.

At least you leased the 235i.....I it makes you feel any better I have sellers remorse. I sold my 1M when the economy was bad. I regret it now. I wish I had my 1M back! : )

[Canaletto]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

I came from a 10-year ownership of a 2004 Mazda RX-8, so my new M235i seems better to me in every aspect.

In *every* respect? Don't you miss winding the RX-8 up to that 9,000 RPM red line just a little bit?


<==Former RX-8 owner

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by nachob

The surge on the N54 is impressive, probably the twin turbo is the biggest reason and the sound is much better on the 135i, stock and the 1M, I must admit when I had the 1M I always wished for a little less lag. The N55 has slightly quicker throttle response so it's not a total waste for me. I think the softness and reduced sound make it feel slower than it really is.

At least you leased the 235i.....I it makes you feel any better I have sellers remorse. I sold my 1M when the economy was bad. I regret it now. I wish I had my 1M back! : )

I really really wanted a 1M - but I didn't begin the process of obtaining one quickly enough AND I would have been totally screwed on my 135 lease at the time. Remains one of my biggest regrets, somehow not making that happen.

I agree that the N54 might have had a little more lag - but only just - and to me, it revs soooooooo much more quickly than my M235 - I was out on some back roads last night, just doing some 40-80 or a little higher runs, and the car just doesn't seem to be very urgent - I don't know how else to explain it. Is it fast? Yes. Is it urgent? I don't think so.

I recently got a warning that my oil level was low, so I added a quart of Castrol to the car. Might use that as a reason to visit the dealer, just to make sure there isn't something amiss - I don't think there is, because the car has felt this way since I took delivery, and has never thrown a warning out on the screen until the other day with the oil level.

I feel your pain on the 1M...maybe you will get one again, once the M2 is out - that should finally cause the 1M's prices to drop a little...

[Guynamedsean]

I've owned a n55 135 w dct
I've owned a n54 335is dct with Dinan stage 2

The m235 is better than both