[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by Vegetable

This must be your first BMW.. Having had a multitude of 328s (4 to be exact), including a 2007 and 2009 328, all of them overheated before 80,000 miles. GL you, and I hope your logic that cars don't need a engine temp gauge, water, oil, or otherwise, won't bite you in the ass... Ok.. ok.. secretly I hope your car overheats tomorrow and leaves you stranded and you tell me how much you wish you had an engine temp gauge...... no, not really... yes really.. no, not really

You live in a MUCH hotter climate than I do, and I suspect you drive in a heck of a lot more traffic. Anecdotally, both seem detrimental to pump life. As I said, neither my local dealer nor my local BMW indy mechanic (who is a Dinan dealer and knows his shit) has seen much in the way of failures here before 100K miles, even on the older cars. And the pumps have gone through several revisions over the years, one would hope that BMW learns over time and improves the part. I am not remotely worried about it. If the light comes on, I'll shut the car off and whip out the cell phone and AAA card.

And no, this is by no means my first BMW.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by bman6074

I don't doubt Bmw engineers know what there doing. But is it more expensive for a technology that makes checking the oil slower? ha ha. It's interesting why some of there models have a temp gauge and some do not. Just curious to know what the thinking is on that. My friends 335xi has a temp gauge why not the m325i being its supposedly the new enthusiast drivers car? I'm not to worried about it just always curious what the thinking is behind the decisions.

The 335i does not have a water temperature gauge. It has an oil temperature gauge. Which is more useful in a turbo car that can get the oil much hotter. And the oil temp is not electronically managed like the water temp is. Doesn't the M235i have an oil temp readout in the cluster that you can choose to display as well?

Ultimately I will say again what I already said - a water temp gauge in a modern BMW with the electronic thermostat and electric water pump is the next best thing to useless for knowing if the car is going to overheat soon. There are many operating conditions where the computer runs the car on the verge of overheating anyway. It's more efficient that way, squeaks out a bit better fuel economy by not chucking heat energy out the radiator. It's the whole reason that they HAVE the electronic thermostat and electric water pump, so the temperature can be dynamically managed. The gauge would have to be damped to the point of uselessness. It would show normal right up until the point it is in fact overheating, which is exactly the same thing the light does. I do concede that it would be nice to know when the engine is up to operating temp, but realistically just waiting for 10 minutes drive time to hammer the thing is more than sufficient.

As for the dipstick, if you are going to have an electronic oil quantity/quality sensor for the CBS anyway, why bother with a dipstick? It's one more thing to break, and a potential evaporative emissions leak point. Good riddance, I say. And with these engines holding nearly 8 quarts of oil, the exact level is not exactly critical anyway. Drive it until the computer tells you to add a quart, dump it in, and you are good to go.

[mjposner]

krhodes1 nailed it, case closed.\, can we go back to railing in the lack of a spare now

[bman6074]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

The 335i does not have a water temperature gauge. It has an oil temperature gauge. Which is more useful in a turbo car that can get the oil much hotter. And the oil temp is not electronically managed like the water temp is. Doesn't the M235i have an oil temp readout in the cluster that you can choose to display as well?

Ultimately I will say again what I already said - a water temp gauge in a modern BMW with the electronic thermostat and electric water pump is the next best thing to useless for knowing if the car is going to overheat soon. There are many operating conditions where the computer runs the car on the verge of overheating anyway. It's more efficient that way, squeaks out a bit better fuel economy by not chucking heat energy out the radiator. It's the whole reason that they HAVE the electronic thermostat and electric water pump, so the temperature can be dynamically managed. The gauge would have to be damped to the point of uselessness. It would show normal right up until the point it is in fact overheating, which is exactly the same thing the light does. I do concede that it would be nice to know when the engine is up to operating temp, but realistically just waiting for 10 minutes drive time to hammer the thing is more than sufficient.

As for the dipstick, if you are going to have an electronic oil quantity/quality sensor for the CBS anyway, why bother with a dipstick? It's one more thing to break, and a potential evaporative emissions leak point. Good riddance, I say. And with these engines holding nearly 8 quarts of oil, the exact level is not exactly critical anyway. Drive it until the computer tells you to add a quart, dump it in, and you are good to go.

This may be true for the temp gauge and now i can see no reason for the temp gauge. But as for the dipstick how is one to check the level of the oil when changing it or how much to add in between changes. As we all know not all the oil comes out when draining. From years back the dipstick was used to check the level as you filled the car with oil. Now yes you can measure the oil that came out and the figure out how much should go in, drive the car for 10 min then use the computer to check level. But now a 15 min oil change becomes 30 mins. The dipstick is just so much quicker. I'm not saying that it doesn't come with its problems but i think is it rare as i have had cars up over 280K miles and never had a dipstick be the cause of any issue.
I believe somethings mechanical are just more efficient still. Technology hasn't matched the efficiency of it. It may have superseded its use but not efficiency in my opinion.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by bman6074

This may be true for the temp gauge and now i can see no reason for the temp gauge. But as for the dipstick how is one to check the level of the oil when changing it or how much to add in between changes. As we all know not all the oil comes out when draining. From years back the dipstick was used to check the level as you filled the car with oil. Now yes you can measure the oil that came out and the figure out how much should go in, drive the car for 10 min then use the computer to check level. But now a 15 min oil change becomes 30 mins. The dipstick is just so much quicker. I'm not saying that it doesn't come with its problems but i think is it rare as i have had cars up over 280K miles and never had a dipstick be the cause of any issue.
I believe somethings mechanical are just more efficient still. Technology hasn't matched the efficiency of it. It may have superseded its use but not efficiency in my opinion.

Simple. Oil level is not critical on these cars as long as you don't overfill it. Drain, add six quarts, check with the level sensor. If you are between max and min you are good to go. If you are at min, add a quart. Again, they hold more than *7*, almost 8 quarts (at least for the sixes). The reason for this is not related to lubrication per se, it is to ensure enough oil additives to allow that up to 18K mile oil change interval. This is a TON of oil, the engine would probably be perfectly happy with only 3-4 quarts in it.

Believe it or not, BMW's engineers actually do know what they are doing.

[bman6074]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

Simple. Oil level is not critical on these cars as long as you don't overfill it. Drain, add six quarts, check with the level sensor. If you are between max and min you are good to go. If you are at min, add a quart. Again, they hold more than *7*, almost 8 quarts (at least for the sixes). The reason for this is not related to lubrication per se, it is to ensure enough oil additives to allow that up to 18K mile oil change interval. This is a TON of oil, the engine would probably be perfectly happy with only 3-4 quarts in it.

Believe it or not, BMW's engineers actually do know what they are doing.

I don't doubt the engineers know what they are doing. But you seem to miss my point and that is the time efficiency of checking the oil. (I say this with a smile) It just takes longer to check it via the technology then it does mechanically. i really don't care all that much because most of the time my car is under full maintenance warranty. But when its not just nice to be able to check the oil quickly via a dipstick. It would be nice if they just had a sensor for checking while it was cold and in the oil pan like the dipstick does. But oh well its not going to deter me from buying a BMW. I have learned to role with the changes in society and find ways to make them efficient to my liking.

[abirmaher]

Another idea, not sure if its been mentioned, and I know its an expensive option but you could go for the Electric BMW Steering Wheel. Ordered it on my M235i and am loving it. Expensive but you get alot of functionality and I like the fact that its Alcantara wrapped.

-Oil and water Temp
-Shift Lights
-0-60 times
-1/4 mile time
-lap timer
-section timer
-lateral g meter
-Efficient dynamics display

It was expensive but ive been wanting this for a while so i pulled the trigger when I placed my order and have not looked back.

[bman6074]

Originally Posted by abirmaher

Another idea, not sure if its been mentioned, and I know its an expensive option but you could go for the Electric BMW Steering Wheel. Ordered it on my M235i and am loving it. Expensive but you get alot of functionality and I like the fact that its Alcantara wrapped.

-Oil and water Temp
-Shift Lights
-0-60 times
-1/4 mile time
-lap timer
-section timer
-lateral g meter
-Efficient dynamics display

It was expensive but ive been wanting this for a while so i pulled the trigger when I placed my order and have not looked back.

I thought about this but its my daily driver. Not really interested in an extra expense just for oil temp haha

[abirmaher]

Originally Posted by bman6074

I thought about this but its my daily driver. Not really interested in an extra expense just for oil temp haha

I understand. I probably wouldn't do this if that's all your interested in. This is my daily as well but I love all the tech and such.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by bman6074

I don't doubt the engineers know what they are doing. But you seem to miss my point and that is the time efficiency of checking the oil. (I say this with a smile) It just takes longer to check it via the technology then it does mechanically. i really don't care all that much because most of the time my car is under full maintenance warranty. But when its not just nice to be able to check the oil quickly via a dipstick. It would be nice if they just had a sensor for checking while it was cold and in the oil pan like the dipstick does. But oh well its not going to deter me from buying a BMW. I have learned to role with the changes in society and find ways to make them efficient to my liking.

How is getting out of the car, opening the hood, grubbing around for the little stick, pulling it out, wiping it off, sticking it back in, pulling it out again, holding it up to the light to try to see the fresh clean oil, sticking it back in, and shutting the hood faster than just twiddling with the buttons on the turn signal lever the next time you take the car for a drive? If you are changing the oil, all you have to do is dump in six quarts. There is no need to check it right then, check it the next time you are driving somewhere anyway.

[bman6074]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

How is getting out of the car, opening the hood, grubbing around for the little stick, pulling it out, wiping it off, sticking it back in, pulling it out again, holding it up to the light to try to see the fresh clean oil, sticking it back in, and shutting the hood faster than just twiddling with the buttons on the turn signal lever the next time you take the car for a drive? If you are changing the oil, all you have to do is dump in six quarts. There is no need to check it right then, check it the next time you are driving somewhere anyway.

When changing the oil you are already out of the car. By doing it with the technology you have to take the car for a drive 10 min then back to a level surface to take the reading. I can get out of the car lift the hood grab the dipstick, wipe it, stick it back in and out to check the oil level in less then 2 min. It would take over 15 to drive around and then have the car technology check it. I understand i can do it after i go out to the store but I end up forgetting to check as my mind is on the shopping task now.
I don't want to wait to find out i don't have the right amount of oil in there. That now adds more time to the oil change. If i can check it during a 10-15min oil change i am done and on my way.
i am sorry but the efficiency is just not there in the technology. Head to head oil changes, the dipstick would win out every time.

[Ritz42]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

How is getting out of the car, opening the hood, grubbing around for the little stick, pulling it out, wiping it off, sticking it back in, pulling it out again, holding it up to the light to try to see the fresh clean oil, sticking it back in, and shutting the hood faster than just twiddling with the buttons on the turn signal lever the next time you take the car for a drive? If you are changing the oil, all you have to do is dump in six quarts. There is no need to check it right then, check it the next time you are driving somewhere anyway.

You do know that when you change the oil, when you drain the oil out of the oil pan you don't get every drop of oil that was in the engine out, right? Particuarly if you have an oil cooler, a turbo, and additional oil lines, quite like any modern BMW. Blinding dumping 6 quarts in during an oil change will likely lead to an overfill situation. ANd if you play it conversatively and only put in say 4 or 5 quarts, then you have to drive around for a minimum of 10 minutes before the car will tell you the level, only to find out you're short a quart or more.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by Ritz42

You do know that when you change the oil, when you drain the oil out of the oil pan you don't get every drop of oil that was in the engine out, right? Particuarly if you have an oil cooler, a turbo, and additional oil lines, quite like any modern BMW. Blinding dumping 6 quarts in during an oil change will likely lead to an overfill situation. ANd if you play it conversatively and only put in say 4 or 5 quarts, then you have to drive around for a minimum of 10 minutes before the car will tell you the level, only to find out you're short a quart or more.

On my N52, six quarts gets me to exactly 1/2 way on the meter, consistently. Provided you wait a reasonable amount of time, you are going to get the vast majority of the oil out. It doesn't matter if you get every drop of oil out. You WILL get six quarts out (or however much the engine in question typically drains), and that is more than enough to put back in. There is no need to be anal about getting the oil exactly back to the MAX line in the readout - it's only approximate anyway. Dump in six quarts, and the next time you are driving anyway take a reading. Dump in a 1/2 quart if it makes you feel better. I'd just wait until the computer told me to dump in a full quart. My car has never varied the level between changes. Again, these engines hold something like 2X the amount of oil they actually NEED, simply to allow the extended oil change intervals.

Ultimately this is all arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. The dipstick is GONE from BMW gasoline engines, and it is not coming back. If this really bothers you, buy something else. I think Audi still has dipsticks, shame about how they drive though.

[soghetto]

wait, does that mean I cant use this anymore? .....bummer

[mjposner]

From inline:

In an effort to find out who exactly is responsible for the dipstick-abolishing movement, Autoblog contacted Audi, BMW and Porsche – three respected German automakers who have embraced the technology for several years. All three gave us the same answer. Contrary to Internet rumors, the elimination of an inexpensive metal rod is not a cost-cutting measure, nor is it an environmental issue (word on the web said each check of a dipstick introduced ounces of polluting dirty oil into the ecosystem).

Quite frankly, the automakers point out that we simply don't need dipsticks anymore. Why? Because owners don't use them. While they don't specifically say it, those who engineer and assemble our new cars (and guarantee new vehicle warranties) are much more comfortable knowing that a silicon chip is monitoring the oil level – not a consumer who hasn't checked tire pressures (or even opened the hood) since the last time the Vikings won the Super Bowl.

So its the buyer's fault.

[soghetto]

it doesn't bother me that the dipstick is gone, what bothers me is having to hack or go through secrete hidden menus to now see the levels and temps.... that should be available to the end user by default!

oil, coolant, and fuel levels, as well as temps and tire pressures should all be available by default to the buyer of any car.... especially a performance car being marketed to enthusiasts and coming with an ///M badge!

an ultimate driving machine thats been so perfected that the direction is now creating the ultimate driver... and you cant see the level's and temps?

I would not be surprised if we have to add an "admin package" down the road that unlocks all the gauges we should be getting by default.

[KevinM]

Ok, while I have not read the whole thread, it seems that some are referencing the "temp gauge" when talking about the water temp gauge while others are referring the to the oil temp gauge. These two gauges could not be more different. I agree that the that a water temp gauge is basically little more than an idiot light. However, at least with every M car I have owned, the oil temp gauge is important in terms of knowing when you can "use the car's full potential" or if there is an overheating problem at the track. With E39 M5 for example, some instances of bearing failure have been related to revving the engine to redline repeatedly before the oil temp was in the safe range.

It seems that BMW turbocharged engines do not warm up as quickly as their NA engines. The S62 and S54 engines usually reach optimal operating oil temp within 5-10 minutes of normal operation (however, I live in Arizona!). I have had the pleasure of driving a 1 M frequently, and the M54 engine takes significantly longer to reach optimal operational oil temp. Perhaps this doesn't matter anymore, but BMW M has spent years telling us it does...and no-one has said it doesn't matter with the newer turbo engines. Of course the F8X's S55 has an oil temp gauge as well, be it for marketing or because M wants owners to know what the oil temp is before the car is hammered or used extensively at the track.

Clearly for short-term ownership none of this matters. For 10+ years (which is my pattern) I'm not so sure. At least the oil temp is available by several different ways (menu on tech package, steering wheel upgrade) on the M235i as outlined above.

[mjposner]

"The temp gauge was useful every morning for me." In what meaningful way unless you race every morning? You must be always late for work.....

So an oil temp gauge is worth 11k to you, the guestimated cost of an M2 over a 235i. Again, save $$ and get the fancy steering wheel.

Or simply install this: http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/a...o-150_psi.html

[SmallTownBoy]

He's willing to pay $11K for an oil temp gauge and you're trying to sell him on a $200 pressure gauge?

[nachob]

Gentle Men we are not buying Corollas here. We are buying something special that is an extension of our personalities and says something about us. My cars says that I am a petrol head with mechanical empathy that enjoys those things that connect me with the car more like shifting the gears, engaging the clutch, monitoring the engine with a gauge and through real sound. That is what I value and if I'm going to spend 2 gti's worth of money on one car that is what I want. I do not want my car saying: I just out gas in it and drive while listening to digital engine sound and looking at M badges. I hope the M2 is modeled a little closer to the 1M not just in numbers but in details like this.

[nachob]

I was looking at another thread where they are making fun of BMWs mistake in the new M3 manual. They call the engine a V8 and they show a picture of the dash telling the driver to monitor the temp gauge in the morning! I guess the M3 and Mx35i cars are that different?

Imagine that!

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by rayploy

Do you guys know about the secret menu?
Press down the mileage reset button, while starting your car.
The unlock code is the last four digits of your vin added together .

Say what?