[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I did say stock. Not heavily modified to cool properly. I'm not picking on the N55, per se, BMW's in general, including M cars have historically had subpar cooling. Aside from possibly an E46 CSL, I can't imagine any BMW surviving 24h of racing conditions in stock form.

According to everything I've read, the cooling on the M235i Racing is standard M235i fare. For example:

As such, the racecar would use a surprising number of production parts. The 333hp engine, for example, was essentially the stock N55 3.0L but for software tuning; even the engine cooling and intercooling was production BMW M235i.

Source: http://www.europeancarweb.com/firstl...#ixzz2zfJqxo2L

[ska///235i]

Its nice to have a temp gauge but it isnt a deal breaker either. If the car overheats you get a CEL warning and you pull over...so if you do have a temp gauge and it gets to high temps, now what? Same shit you just pull over

Is not like you can dial on the gauge and the temp will lower lol

[bman6074]

Originally Posted by ska325xi

Its nice to have a temp gauge but it isnt a deal breaker either. If the car overheats you get a CEL warning and you pull over...so if you do have a temp gauge and it gets to high temps, now what? Same shit you just pull over

Is not like you can dial on the gauge and the temp will lower lol

Well there are some things you can try to do in order to get the car to a safer area then just the side of the road. I have had in the past cars showing high temp. I was able to turn the heat on full blast and keep it stable for a while to get myself home. So the temp gauge is definitely a nice simple feature to have.

[JustinCredibleM]

Originally Posted by ska325xi

Its nice to have a temp gauge but it isnt a deal breaker either. If the car overheats you get a CEL warning and you pull over...so if you do have a temp gauge and it gets to high temps, now what? Same shit you just pull over

Is not like you can dial on the gauge and the temp will lower lol

I think the majority wants to know when the car is warmed up, not if its overheating. I would like to know when my car is warmed up as well.

[ska///235i]

I agree and I want a temp gauge as much as I want an oil dipstick but these oldskool items might never comeback with new technology and every freakin thing has a sensor now

If we took all the sensors from the car amd weight them...thats prbly 200lbs worth of junk

[JustinCredibleM]

Originally Posted by ska325xi

I agree and I want a temp gauge as much as I want an oil dipstick but these oldskool items might never comeback with new technology and every freakin thing has a sensor now

If we took all the sensors from the car amd weight them...thats prbly 200lbs worth of junk

Lol - That doesn't make sense, because the car DOES have temperature sensors and we are not complaining because it doesn't have one... Its the fact that BMW hid the temperature gauge, not that they didn't include one.

Just take a look at the previous posts and there's information about accessing a hidden menu to access the temperature readouts.

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by JustinCredibleM

Lol - That doesn't make sense, because the car DOES have temperature sensors and we are not complaining because it doesn't have one... Its the fact that BMW hid the temperature gauge, not that they didn't include one.

Just take a look at the previous posts and there's information about accessing a hidden menu to access the temperature readouts.

Yes, thats what Im trying to say is that the sensors are there and the car's ecu/computer is reading and controling everything for us

[JustinCredibleM]

Originally Posted by ska325xi

Yes, thats what Im trying to say is that the sensors are there and the car's ecu/computer is reading and controling everything for us

Of course it is or else we'd have issues :P.

Most of us are simply looking to know when the car is warmed up and it helps to know this with a temperature gauge - that's it. Having the car's ecu reading and controlling everything for us doesn't tell us when the car is warmed up.

[Chunner]

From an article in Road & Track boys....

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...2014-bmw-m235i

A dash with an inferiority complex

Speaking of silly, the M235i displays "M235i" on the LCD of its gauge cluster at all times. And it has horsepower and torque gauges in the center screen. But it has no way of telling you that the oil is so cold it has ice crystals in it. Or, on the other hand, that the engine oil is hot enough to fry a turkey. (Yeah, I’m going there again.) You have no way of knowing when launch control is going to work. Go to the racetrack, and half the time, the dash says "Launch Control Active," but the car performs a seven-second 0–60. Which we can only presume is because the engine is hot. But we’ll never know now, will we? I want to smack someone over this.

[Vegetable]

Originally Posted by Chunner

From an article in Road & Track boys....

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...2014-bmw-m235i

A dash with an inferiority complex

Speaking of silly, the M235i displays "M235i" on the LCD of its gauge cluster at all times. And it has horsepower and torque gauges in the center screen. But it has no way of telling you that the oil is so cold it has ice crystals in it. Or, on the other hand, that the engine oil is hot enough to fry a turkey. (Yeah, I’m going there again.) You have no way of knowing when launch control is going to work. Go to the racetrack, and half the time, the dash says "Launch Control Active," but the car performs a seven-second 0–60. Which we can only presume is because the engine is hot. But we’ll never know now, will we? I want to smack someone over this.

I love that quote!

[Vegetable]

Originally Posted by M.barnes

Can't believe people choose which car to buy on the basis of an engine temp guage? Really?

Today I got a 435i, but the temp gauge wasn't the major deciding factor..However, it was kinda crazy/stupid that the 235i didn't have a temp gauge.. Still, I love both cars..

[M.barnes]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I did say stock. Not heavily modified to cool properly. I'm not picking on the N55, per se, BMW's in general, including M cars have historically had subpar cooling. Aside from possibly an E46 CSL, I can't imagine any BMW surviving 24h of racing conditions in stock form.

The m235i racing car has no additional cooling, that's my point. It was found not to need any

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by M.barnes

The m235i racing car has no additional cooling, that's my point. It was found not to need any

Impressive. I don't see any hardware changes from previous N55 cars, but maybe they've made subtle changes. I'll be curious to see how they hold up at the track in summer temps.

[M.barnes]

Not summer temps (we don't have summer in the uk lol) but I wrote this a while back:

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=966798

[benneyb]

Can the temps displayed via the hidden menu be changed to Fahrenheit? Or is Celcius the only option?

[nachob]

Originally Posted by ska325xi

Its nice to have a temp gauge but it isnt a deal breaker either. If the car overheats you get a CEL warning and you pull over...so if you do have a temp gauge and it gets to high temps, now what? Same shit you just pull over

Is not like you can dial on the gauge and the temp will lower lol

At some point, a person has to make a stand and all we can do is vote with our wallet. There has been an ongoing deterioration of driver and performance focus on these cars and a man has to do what a man has to do..


ENOUGH! Vote with your wallet, that is the only power that we have and those of you that are appeasing BMW by paying top dollar for watered down M or M-ish cars are feeding this change. So I applaud the poster for voting with his wallet and while many of you look at him(us) as strange, one day this might make the difference as to what sort of car you get from BMW in the future. For me, passing on the M235i was a lot of things: IDrive mandatory, power seats mandatory, active sound mandatory, active suspension mandatory, weak engine sound, no Alcantara/cloth option like in Europe but the last straw for me was replacing the temp gauge with an M235i badge. I can't understand how so many of you don't see how lame this is. They didn't replace it temp gauge with something useful, purposeful, performance or safety related item. They replaced the TEMP gauge with something so vain, useless and fluffy like an M235i logo. That is the direction BMW is taking to keep you satisfied. For those of us that want the ultimate driving machine, not the ultimate fluff machine, all we can do now is vote with our wallets.

Bravo to Original Poster! I thank you!

[Delnari]

I went ahead an install a Bluetooth OBDII transmitter attached to the port. I have installed Torque App on my phone and now get Water Temperature via big dial on my 5.8" phone screen.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by sdpauly

Because no BMW has ever overheated, right?

I find it funny how the fanboys want to keep making excuses for this dumb oversight. BMW done goofed in leaving out a temp gauge, no two ways about it. You should not have to buy an aftermarket gauge on a $50k sportscar, every car I have ever driven has had a way for the driver to know at a glance (without having to tab through some hidden menu) what his engine temp is.

Manufactures maybe need to be sent a message, and if it means not buying their car because of stupid stuff like this, then so be it. Between this and the Active Sound you cannot disable...

In nearly every modern car, the temp gauge in the dash is effectively an idiot light. They are so damped that they read normal from lukewarm to the point where a BMW will light up the yellow warning light anyway. And with the electronic thermostat and electric water pump, the water temperature in a modern BMW is so all over the place as to be mostly meaningless anyway. "Normal" depends entirely on what you are doing at the moment. The computer will tell you if the engine is too hot. Drive reasonably for the first 10-15 minutes, and the engine will be warmed up.

[Vegetable]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

In nearly every modern car, the temp gauge in the dash is effectively an idiot light. They are so damped that they read normal from lukewarm to the point where a BMW will light up the yellow warning light anyway. And with the electronic thermostat and electric water pump, the water temperature in a modern BMW is so all over the place as to be mostly meaningless anyway. "Normal" depends entirely on what you are doing at the moment. The computer will tell you if the engine is too hot. Drive reasonably for the first 10-15 minutes, and the engine will be warmed up.

What if the thermostat is stuck open? And the engine never gets to a normal operating temp. How do you know without some kind of engine temp gauge? IMO, with BMW's history of bad water pumps/thermostats they should have both a water and an engine oil temp gauge. For those of us that have actually had an overheat issue in a BMW, the "yellow" light almost instantly turns to "red" and then... LIMP.... If you have no place to pull over you are fcked! Since you have a 2011 328i, It's likely you will know exactly what I am talking about before you hit 100,000 miles (hopefully not, but just sayin).

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by Vegetable

What if the thermostat is stuck open? And the engine never gets to a normal operating temp. How do you know without some kind of engine temp gauge? IMO, with BMW's history of bad water pumps/thermostats they should have both a water and an engine oil temp gauge. For those of us that have actually had an overheat issue in a BMW, the "yellow" light almost instantly turns to "red" and then... LIMP.... If you have no place to pull over you are fcked! Since you have a 2011 328i, It's likely you will know exactly what I am talking about before you hit 100,000 miles (hopefully not, but just sayin).

If the thermostat is stuck open you will get a CEL. The computer actively monitors that sort of thing. If you don't get to X temp in Y time, you get a CEL. In nearly every modern car, you will get no more warning of overheating than you do with BMW's warning lights.

As to waterpump and thermostat lifespan, I plan to preemptively replace them at the 100K mark. Given many cars have waterpumps replaced at around that mileage as part of a timing belt service, I don't find this to be a particularly bothersome issue. I also don't expect premature failure. My car is not a turbo, I don't live in a hot climate, and it is near never driven other than on highway trips, no stop-and-go. It seems fairly evident from the pattern of failures that heat is the big issue for the pumps. Both my favorite indy garage here and the local dealer very, very rarely see failures before 100K. And at my current rate of adding miles, 100K will be around 2023.

[Vegetable]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

If the thermostat is stuck open you will get a CEL. The computer actively monitors that sort of thing. If you don't get to X temp in Y time, you get a CEL. In nearly every modern car, you will get no more warning of overheating than you do with BMW's warning lights.

As to waterpump and thermostat lifespan, I plan to preemptively replace them at the 100K mark. Given many cars have waterpumps replaced at around that mileage as part of a timing belt service, I don't find this to be a particularly bothersome issue. I also don't expect premature failure. My car is not a turbo, I don't live in a hot climate, and it is near never driven other than on highway trips, no stop-and-go. It seems fairly evident from the pattern of failures that heat is the big issue for the pumps. Both my favorite indy garage here and the local dealer very, very rarely see failures before 100K. And at my current rate of adding miles, 100K will be around 2023.

This must be your first BMW.. Having had a multitude of 328s (4 to be exact), including a 2007 and 2009 328, all of them overheated before 80,000 miles. GL you, and I hope your logic that cars don't need a engine temp gauge, water, oil, or otherwise, won't bite you in the ass... Ok.. ok.. secretly I hope your car overheats tomorrow and leaves you stranded and you tell me how much you wish you had an engine temp gauge...... no, not really... yes really.. no, not really

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Vegetable

This must be your first BMW.. Having had a multitude of 328s (4 to be exact), including a 2007 and 2009 328, all of them overheated before 80,000 miles. GL you, and I hope your logic that cars don't need a engine temp gauge, water, oil, or otherwise, won't bite you in the ass... Ok.. ok.. secretly I hope your car overheats tomorrow and leaves you stranded and you tell me how much you wish you had an engine temp gauge...... no, not really... yes really.. no, not really

yes, the plastic expansion tank will crack by 80K and leak coolant and you will not get a warning light. Neither will your plastic BEHR radiator when the hose neck cracks off.

Here is a real world example of how a temp gauge can work. I know because this happened to me. I am on a highway and slow down for traffic. I see the temperature needle work it's way up. There is nowhere safe to stop. As traffic clears and I try to make an offramp, the car is moving and the temp goes down. I keep driving and temp stays normal. I figure it must be the fan. I keep driving on the highway and get off on an offramp near my house, pull over and I am 5 minutes from home. The temp gauge made all the difference between being stranded 30 miles from home or 2 miles. It was the auxiliary fan that that froze. Also, to what others have said about it not being that accurate, that is true but it is accurate enough to tell you when your engine is toasting and that's what we care about. Not to mention all the other things in written in the review. As I said in the previous post, there was no reason drop it. It was not replaced by anything more or even as useful. It doesn't take away from the 235i being a great car still but you have to call a spade a spade. What's more disheartening is that if you say that adding an M badge and dropping an engine temp gauge is dumb, you are just labeled as a hater and should just be disregarded because haters hate or some stupid thing like that. Those of us that disagree are not haters....we are LOVERS! It's like your 15 year old sister tells you that she wants to a full body tatoo and 6 piercing and you tell her you love her and don't think that is a smart thing then many of you guys would just say......ignore your brother that, he's just a hater, we love you more because we don't say anything about your complicating your life down the road.... We do the hard things like that because we love our sister and we love BMW M cars.