[W///]

Originally Posted by BMW F22

^ Assuming $58,225 for an M2 and $68,225 for an M3; both are lightly optioned with only things like HK, Adaptive, DCT, USB and BT.

Using 63% RV for M3 and 62% RV for M2 (same as M4), 39 months, 8.75% tax, 10k miles a year, $1500-2,000 over ED invoice, M3 is $60 or so more a month. I ran the numbers for an M2 priced out as above and got about $550 a month with max MSD and no down. An M3 is about $607.

The question is then: would most of us get the M2 or the M3?? I suppose if your main concern is size and weight, then maybe the M2. If it's performance, I think the M3 would be very difficult to pass up. It would be a tough choice IMO.

That's a tough question. I've decided that it will be determined after a test drive. And for me, it's not just the M2 vs F80 M3 anymore because now I'm beginning to wonder if I should stick to my current M cars. The delta between what an M2 vs what I have in the E36 M3 is easily $40k. Imagine dropping just another 10-15k into that car, you'd have a beast. Hell I could even add a Z4M to the fleet (before their values undoubtedly explodes)

But I know I'm going down a completely different road. I think way too much about these things

[twin fed]

Originally Posted by W///

That's a tough question. I've decided that it will be determined after a test drive. And for me, it's not just the M2 vs F80 M3 anymore because now I'm beginning to wonder if I should stick to my current M cars. The delta between what an M2 vs what I have in the E36 M3 is easily $40k. Imagine dropping just another 10-15k into that car, you'd have a beast. Hell I could even add a Z4M to the fleet (before their values undoubtedly explodes)

But I know I'm going down a completely different road. I think way too much about these things

I 100% agree. With all this time to debate the M2, replaying all the possible scenarios with various other cars is driving me crazy. Like, What if I sell my Audi and not get the M2 and go Porsche Cayman GTS or put more work into the Porsche I already own and sell the Audi and buy a Porsche Macan for everyday. Sell the Audi buy the M2 and lease a new Chevy Colorado (love it) or a Subaru Cross Trek (love it too). Skip the M2, sell the Audi and look for a used Nissan GTR. It's driving me crazy

[duk]

55k is too much imo for an M2 with not an 'S' engine

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by W///

Hell I could even add a Z4M to the fleet (before their values undoubtedly explodes)

That thought is always crossing my mind and gets me curious when their prices may bottom out.

[samwise]

Originally Posted by Canaletto

The M2 will absolutely destroy a base Cayman in performance, though. Heck, it will probably destroy a Cayman S, too.


I wouldn't be surprised if the M2 were close to $60k. Look, for example, at the 435i/M4. The 435i has a base price of $46,250 while the M4 has a base price of $64,200. You're paying 39% more to get the M4.

The M235i has a base price of $43,100. Add 39% to that and you're at $60k.

Keep in mind that the M4 received a S55 engine up from the 435i's N55 while the M2 will still have a N55.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by samwise

Keep in mind that the M4 received a S55 engine up from the 435i's N55 while the M2 will still have a N55.

The M235i to the M2 is much closer than 435i to M4. BMW said it themselves: the m235i is a bridge M car. The 435i is just a 435i.

[Bemo]

I can't help but laugh at ourselves, circling and howling around the M2, like a pack of hyenas, while Scott throws us a bone here and there to keep us hungry and alert!

$55 is too much for a non-S engine, when an ED Invoice M3 starts around $57K. Yes I know that eventually the M2 could be had with the same amount of savings but for those looking to get a car around next summer that won't be possible.
I wonder if a CSL/GTS model would come with a detuned S55, enough to piss of the early M2 adopters and cause them to upgrade.
Versioning = more mullah to be made...

[Delnari]

I really don't see BMW coming in under the $55K start mark with a bunch of standard features that would be optional on the M235i. The M2 will look nearly the same inside as the M235i at launch. BMW will have to give you some of the optional M Performance interior bits just to let people know they got something more than a M235i. The other goodies will be à la carte (heads-up display, DCT, etc.). Given the mechanical, body, and interior upgrades standard on the M2 the pricing seems right on target for $55K. Fully optioned out with everything including upgraded wheels and DCT I can see it going for $66K-$69K. Will it be worth it for the first model year M2, time will tell.

[6734202]

I'm thinking high 57k-59k base. Look at the Caymen S vs Caymen GTS. Almost the same hp, torque, but GTS is 14k more for ancillary performance bits and pieces. Assuming M2 has a bunch of track ready upgrades AND more output that 17k jump from M235i to M2 is easy. Also used 1Ms are in the 50s still. People are willing to pay that price.

I honestly don't think BMW is worried about stepping on m3/m4 sales. The chassis and size are going to be different. Those that want a 2er size will get the M2 and those that are ok with something bigger, the m4.

Do m235i sales can analyze 435i sales? Doubtful.

That being said if the M2 is 60k+ I don't think I'll be getting one. Too impractical for a DD.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by w0ng_way

I'm thinking high 57k-59k base. Look at the Caymen S vs Caymen GTS. Almost the same hp, torque, but GTS is 14k more for ancillary performance bits and pieces. Assuming M2 has a bunch of track ready upgrades AND more output that 17k jump from M235i to M2 is easy. Also used 1Ms are in the 50s still. People are willing to pay that price.

I honestly don't think BMW is worried about stepping on m3/m4 sales. The chassis and size are going to be different. Those that want a 2er size will get the M2 and those that are ok with something bigger, the m4.

Do m235i sales can analyze 435i sales? Doubtful.

That being said if the M2 is 60k+ I don't think I'll be getting one. Too impractical for a DD.

Not a chance in hell it's that high. Also the 1Ms rarity does not affect the M2 pricing in any way. The reason people will pay that much for that car is because of its lack of availability. The M2 will not suffer this rarity factor even remotely close. Its not thag people are "willing to pay" for a 1M type car. Theyre just willing to pay that for the 1M, and 1M only. Because its a 1M.

The M235i is not a 2 series version of the 435i. Its more than that.

I mean, come on, the M2 isn't even getting an S engine. Its getting the same engine as the M235i but with upgrades.

The gap between an M235i and base M2 will not be very large. M2 is an entry M car. Not a chance it starts on the high 50s.

[Bemo]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

Not a chance in hell it's that high. Also the 1Ms rarity does not affect the M2 pricing in any way. The reason people will pay that much for that car is because of its lack of availability. The M2 will not suffer this rarity factor even remotely close. Its not thag people are "willing to pay" for a 1M type car. Theyre just willing to pay that for the 1M, and 1M only. Because its a 1M.

The M235i is not a 2 series version of the 435i. Its more than that.

I mean, come on, the M2 isn't even getting an S engine. Its getting the same engine as the M235i but with upgrades.

The gap between an M235i and base M2 will not be very large. M2 is an entry M car. Not a chance it starts on the high 50s.

Agree and if it does start at high 50's, we may have to look to another //M model altogether or a different marque.
I love the brand but loyalty should not approach stupidity levels where one overpays for a marginal product...

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by Bemo

Agree and if it does start at high 50's, we may have to look to another //M model altogether or a different marque.
I love the brand but loyalty should not approach stupidity levels where one overpays for a marginal product...

Right, and the thing is, BMW can't use the car only to attract to the M3 and M4. The purpose is pull new people into the M brand from the segment beneath. Otherwise they will not make money, but rather lose money, as customers will simply go elsewhere if they truly cannot afford the m4. If they could, they will considered it anyways.

The M2 will pull new buyers into the M brand. It will be people which can afford a fully loaded M2 that will be pressed about getting the M4.

Its complicated stuff and I'm sure BMW will know the perfect starting price. I'm thinking its on the lower side of the 50s.

[6734202]

So question then is who would buy a m235i when they can get an m2 for 7-10k more?

[Artemis]

As we know, the 'base version' of ///M cars normally features some parts which are often optional on other siblings of the same series. Also this aspect inevitably influences the 'base price' and - albeit marginally - the weight figure.

Some competitors offer a 'soberly' equipped (read: stripped) base version together with a fancy catalogue featuring a pretty long list of option$. As soon as you start ticking boxes, the weight of your wallet becomes lighter, while the weight of the car might increase (except for the free of charge 'delete' options).

Hence, for a better comparison with other cars (BMW + competition), let's also see what optional parts BMW offers stock on the M2.

[BMW F22]

M2 is going to be $53,500 base and BMW will not sell as many of them compared to M3 and M4. Look at this forum alone and see how many people are actually interested in it. It is always the same group of people (and some are on the fence waiting for pricing). I, for one, am losing interest quickly. Unless the M2 has something fantastic to offer, I will be sticking with my M235i and possibly get an M3 later on (maybe jump into a Porsche). The M235i is already a great car. So I refuse to pay a ridiculous amount over the M235i if the M2 is only going to be marginally better. Of course, all of that remains to be seen.

[samwise]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

The M235i to the M2 is much closer than 435i to M4. BMW said it themselves: the m235i is a bridge M car. The 435i is just a 435i.

This is vey true. I did not think about this, thanks.

[challer]

For me, if a fully loaded BMW M2 is within $5k of a base BMW M3, I will take the BMW M3 every day of the week.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by challer

For me, if a fully loaded BMW M2 is within $5k of a base BMW M3, I will take the BMW M3 every day of the week.

Except that a fully loaded M2 will most likely be $7k over the base M3.

Tech package- $2,200
HK- $875
DCT- $2,900
Metallic paint- $550
Adaptive suspension- $1,000

Those things alone is already $7-8K. That is a lightly optioned car. Let's assume the car is $53,500 base, that makes the car about $61k. If you want to load it up with everything (wheels, full leather, driver assist, LED, etc.), it will be in the high $60's or low 70's. Hehehe sounds like it's time to put a deposit on that M3 eh?

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

I agree with others - The role of the M2 is to get people into the M Branded products EARLIER...

From there? Move em up the food chain to M3/M4 and maybe beyond. Lifetime value of these customers is very rich indeed.

That said, without the S Engine, its going to have to be very compelling & provocative to get me to move from what will then be the 240. Especially if the delta in price is a big one

[Mark's M]

Originally Posted by Midwest M235i

I agree with others - The role of the M2 is to get people into the M Branded products EARLIER...

From there? Move em up the food chain to M3/M4 and maybe beyond. Lifetime value of these customers is very rich indeed.

That said, without the S Engine, its going to have to be very compelling & provocative to get me to move from what will then be the 240. Especially if the delta in price is a big one

Good points. Which begs the question...how is BMW going to balance the fine line you described? No doubt it'll be a brilliant car but that's how most owners and mags describe the M235...now.

And what will it be that separates the M240 from the M2 and the M2 from the M3/4? Will it come down to track performance? If so, then 99% of the potential owners of either of these cars should honestly give a rats ass because they don't track and never will. For the 1% that do, I think the differences between the 3 will be compelling and provocative as you describe and I too expect.

For the majority of buyers who at a minimum are probably "enthusiasts" with the ability to drive "enthusiastically", the difference between the 3 cars as measured by street performance (ie tossability, fun to drive, exceptional all around competence including comfort, etc) will be much more difficult to qualify (or quantify) in terms of your compelling and provocative criteria. Hell, there are a few brave M3/4 owners out there who have stated they prefer the day to day fun of the M235 vs their M's. But those same M owners can't get enough of their high tech engines, the power, the absolute finess the cars demonstrate when pushed, etc, etc.

To make the M2 work and fit within BMW's grand plans and hundreds of millions of $$ in investment, IMHO it's going to be fairly performance biased in favour of the M3/4 twins. At that level, owner preference in terms of size and creature comforts - or the absence of them - will become a significant deciding factor as to what to purchase. That is...if the buyers are being absolutely honest as to why they're buying anyrhing "M" in the first place.

[supremepower]

Just wondering, where did they confirm that it will have a N55?

[Mark's M]

Originally Posted by supremepower

Just wondering, where did they confirm that it will have a N55?

Here Justin...sort of:

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901686 Scroll down to F87