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      07-04-2016, 08:54 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver View Post
Automotive journalism is about selling magazines, not truth. How is a 228 which is 2.5 seconds slower around a track than the M cars be better than an M235i which is less than half a second slower?. Understeer on the M235i could be fixed with one size larger front tires. Besides, the article is written from the manual transmission fantasy point of view. Very 2 series cars are being delivered without an automatic.
Ok I watched a review in Germany and the reviewer was a former race car driver who was comparing it to an older m3 and saying the m235i is the best handling bnw offered right now since that m3. Yes they did show him driving it. It was a crazy display of what the car can do on the track..stock and totally stealth (charcoal grey). He said he had it over a month, stock, didnt talk about needing any upgrades and loved it more each day. It think the m235i styling, power and size is just right.

Last edited by yogajitsu; 07-04-2016 at 08:59 AM..
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      07-04-2016, 09:05 AM   #90
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Folks,

If your going to justify the rationale of buying a disposal consumer product like a bmw, enjoy it with your own rationale.

Relying on superficial and subjective journalism, to do this is a shallow pointless exercise.

For me the articles I read only for facile entrainment. If the writer is experienced, I try to understand the perspective, all the while keeping my point of view.

Folks should worry less about what a writer has stated but more on whether it aligns with persons own beliefs.
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      07-04-2016, 09:14 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver View Post
Automotive journalism is about selling magazines, not truth. How is a 228 which is 2.5 seconds slower around a track than the M cars be better than an M235i which is less than half a second slower?. Understeer on the M235i could be fixed with one size larger front tires. Besides, the article is written from the manual transmission fantasy point of view. Very 2 series cars are being delivered without an automatic.
The structure of most of the mags I got to know from presenting to them on behalf of a car company have a pretty good wall of separation from editorial and the sales folks on staff. Sure, journalists want more folks to read their stuff. I would say its far more about ego than sales on the editorial side of each mag's operation. On the sales side, it's whatever sells ad space and copies but they don't write a word outside of an ad sale or a lunch invitation!

But, the 228 is not better. That author just liked it more. Conversely, the M235 isn't better...it's just faster around a track. The relative meaning/importance of being faster around a track is up to you and could be a personal judgement anywhere from "better" to "irrelevant". Just as coming from the factory with more neutral handling could be judged the same way by someone else.

As to the manual trans, the article is what it is...one guy's opinion. Your opinion is likely different. The actual manual trans take rate for all 2 production also doesn't matter. We all take home (hopefully) the one which we like best. Neither you nor the author are right nor wrong, neither car is better nor worse. They are just different, available for you to pick and choose to please yourself. If you don't agree the author's opinion now or ongoing, either be open to different points of view and find out why they feel that way......or read someone else!
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      07-04-2016, 09:29 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght View Post
Folks,

If your going to justify the rationale of buying a disposal consumer product like a bmw, enjoy it with your own rationale.

Relying on superficial and subjective journalism, to do this is a shallow pointless exercise.

For me the articles I read only for facile entrainment. If the writer is experienced, I try to understand the perspective, all the while keeping my point of view.

Folks should worry less about what a writer has stated but more on whether it aligns with persons own beliefs.
It seems like the writer has a true m car. The m car owners hate that this has the m badge lol. Ok we all know this already. It's a 2 series with the "35" motor. The same little 320 hp motor used in the 535i etc. (definitely a very nice motor and i like that its the same one they stuck into the "235i").

I swear a 228i driver is going to read this and think a 235i is slow and find out the hard way the thing has 320 hp and goes 0-60 in 4.5 second (automatically)

Last edited by yogajitsu; 07-04-2016 at 09:37 AM..
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      07-04-2016, 09:46 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogajitsu View Post
It seems like the writer has a true m car. The m car owners hate that this has the m badge lol. Ok we all know this already. It's a 2 series with the "35" motor. The same little 320 hp motor used in the 535i etc. (definitely a very nice motor and i like that its the same one they stuck into the "235i").

I swear a 228i driver is going to read this and think a 235i is slow and find out the hard way the thing has 320 hp and goes 0-60 in 4.5 second (automatically)
I thought 535i has 300hp
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      07-04-2016, 09:51 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
I thought 535i has 300hp
Ok maybe it hasnt gotten upgraded to the 235i motor

Seriously though the 35 motor is very nice, probably their nicest one (it's a bmw 3.0l 6 cylinder turbo with 320 hp and loads of torque for crying out loud). For people to imply to skip putting it unto the 2 series is ridiculous and bad, cause then they'd only have the 2.0 liter twin turbo and the 365 hp motor which is loud outrageous etc.

Last edited by yogajitsu; 07-04-2016 at 10:01 AM..
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      07-04-2016, 11:59 AM   #95
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Outch, that was harsh on the 1M, slow, ugly, bad and leaning in the corners. I've driven a lot of sports car and I don't find this is accurate, both the 1M and M2 are great, I really don't get the bashing on the other cars besides the M2.

Comically the 1M lap time is ridiculously close to the M2 with a difference of just 00,021 seconds. Not the best review in my opinion.
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      07-04-2016, 12:38 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post

As to the manual trans, the article is what it is...one guy's opinion. Your opinion is likely different. The actual manual trans take rate for all 2 production also doesn't matter. We all take home (hopefully) the one which we like best. Neither you nor the author are right nor wrong, neither car is better nor worse. They are just different, available for you to pick and choose to please yourself. If you don't agree the author's opinion now or ongoing, either be open to different points of view and find out why they feel that way......or read someone else!

Well, what you say is true about opinions, although automotive journalists do have a very strong bias in favor of manual transmissions for whatever reason.

I would easily choose the 6 cylinder car over a 4 simply because it will go faster in a straight line. Lap times are less important as I never go to a track. It does surprise me that with two cars having the same steering system one would feel numb and the other is just fine. Still, reaching a surprise conclusion produces controversy which does sell.
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      07-04-2016, 04:08 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver View Post
Well, what you say is true about opinions, although automotive journalists do have a very strong bias in favor of manual transmissions for whatever reason.

I would easily choose the 6 cylinder car over a 4 simply because it will go faster in a straight line. Lap times are less important as I never go to a track. It does surprise me that with two cars having the same steering system one would feel numb and the other is just fine. Still, reaching a surprise conclusion produces controversy which does sell.
The article is so negative against the "m"235i you read it wrong. The m235i was 2 seconds faster than the 228i, and the m2 was 1 second faster than the m235i. So if he's saying the 2 second difference isnt significant then what about the only 1 second differnece between the 235i and the m2.

The writer is just too biased against the 235i and this is actually the first time ive seen a bad review of the 235i (Hmm C&D named it one of their 10 best). And its the first time i hear hear someone who like the 2l 4 banger twin turbo better than the 3l 6 cylinder turbo with 320 hp.
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      07-04-2016, 04:19 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogajitsu View Post
And its the first time i hear hear someone who like the 2l 4 banger twin turbo better than the 3l 6 cylinder turbo with 320 hp.
We're not considering engines in a vacuum. As part of a system of the entire car, with the plusses and minuses of each, I think you will find several folks here and elsewhere who preferred the 4 over the 6, independent of purchase price. If you are looking for other journalists who also prefer the 4, consider Jalopnik. Of course, there are those who share your preference for the 6. No one is right or wrong on personal preferences.
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      07-04-2016, 05:08 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
We're not considering engines in a vacuum. As part of a system of the entire car, with the plusses and minuses of each, I think you will find several folks here and elsewhere who preferred the 4 over the 6, independent of purchase price. If you are looking for other journalists who also prefer the 4, consider Jalopnik. Of course, there are those who share your preference for the 6. No one is right or wrong on personal preferences.
Its not in a vacuum.. its on the car. Ok maybe some people like the 4 banger turbo better. Just reading the article the guy was so anxious to drive the 228i after driving the 235i with the 3.0 l turbo. Really? Maybe i missed something when i decided not to test drive a 228i, but i still dont want to.
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      07-04-2016, 07:27 PM   #100
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Way too subjective to fuss over, guys...

We ALL know how great this series of BMW is. We don't need to prove anything to anyone with engine sizes or gearbox selections or trim levels. If a 1 series owner feels better about hydraulic steering then good for him, whatever floats your boat, he should probably hold onto that unicorn and never let go.. If an M2-on-order owner feels better for having bought the most expensive line in the 2 series platform, chances are he's all about stats, so you'll never hear the end of it, from him in regards to his "stats", because we know he never drove one, yet.. That's what we're faced with. You'll never hear an owner of an M2 saying "I wish I bought a 228i" just like we don't expect the M2 owner to appreciate why we made the decisions we have. It's like a revolving door.... I feel it hitting me right now!

So many E-pinions. It never stops, not here, not in the M forums, not in the VW forums.. Sad.

That's my opinion
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      07-05-2016, 12:07 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
Way too subjective to fuss over, guys...

We ALL know how great this series of BMW is. We don't need to prove anything to anyone with engine sizes or gearbox selections or trim levels. If a 1 series owner feels better about hydraulic steering then good for him, whatever floats your boat, he should probably hold onto that unicorn and never let go.. If an M2-on-order owner feels better for having bought the most expensive line in the 2 series platform, chances are he's all about stats, so you'll never hear the end of it, from him in regards to his "stats", because we know he never drove one, yet.. That's what we're faced with. You'll never hear an owner of an M2 saying "I wish I bought a 228i" just like we don't expect the M2 owner to appreciate why we made the decisions we have. It's like a revolving door.... I feel it hitting me right now!

So many E-pinions. It never stops, not here, not in the M forums, not in the VW forums.. Sad.

That's my opinion
I agree with you about the general "to each their own" sentiment. However I have to say, I actually enjoy some of the heated discussion around trim levels/different engines-- as long as it's healthy and friendly. Everybody on these forums shares an interest in BMWs, and that's good enough to bring people together
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      07-05-2016, 03:20 PM   #102
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Opinions are like @ssholes. The M235i was about 1 second off the pace of the M2. Adam Seaman is legit. I had him for an instructor at the BMW performance driving center so each car was driven to its full potential. I really couldn't care less about what magazines think about the car I drive. I put more stock int the feedback of everyday drivers like myself and most of the folks here.
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      07-05-2016, 04:12 PM   #103
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Very interesting piece and thread. I suppose I should throw away the C/D issue which featured their most recent annual 10 best....what do THEY know.
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      07-05-2016, 09:04 PM   #104
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The big fuss is about the m badge

The writer spent a lot of time explaining that the m235i is not a true M car. Ok, we know.. and c/d also said the same thing but went on to explain that there are other things about the m235i that are different making it very good on its own. First of all, the motor. They loved the new 3.0l turbo power and gobs of torque. They point out that, unlike other #35i cars, this one is 320 hp vs 300hp. Smaller car and more power. The 435i difference from the m4 in performance is huge in comparison with the difference between the 235i and the m2. Why doesnt the 435i get 320hp also? The outgoing 335i (previous top ten on r&t and c/d lists) also had 300hp and nowhere near as quick as the 235i. So there is a difference between the m235i and the other normal #35i.

Last edited by yogajitsu; 07-05-2016 at 09:10 PM..
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      07-05-2016, 09:50 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogajitsu View Post
Ok I watched a review in Germany and the reviewer was a former race car driver who was comparing it to an older m3 and saying the m235i is the best handling bnw offered right now since that m3. Yes they did show him driving it. It was a crazy display of what the car can do on the track..stock and totally stealth (charcoal grey). He said he had it over a month, stock, didnt talk about needing any upgrades and loved it more each day. It think the m235i styling, power and size is just right.
I really dig that stealth grey.
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      07-05-2016, 09:56 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogajitsu View Post
The article is so negative against the "m"235i you read it wrong. The m235i was 2 seconds faster than the 228i, and the m2 was 1 second faster than the m235i. So if he's saying the 2 second difference isnt significant then what about the only 1 second differnece between the 235i and the m2.

The writer is just too biased against the 235i and this is actually the first time ive seen a bad review of the 235i (Hmm C&D named it one of their 10 best). And its the first time i hear hear someone who like the 2l 4 banger twin turbo better than the 3l 6 cylinder turbo with 320 hp.
I did not read it wrong, but someone else might have.
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      07-06-2016, 11:08 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by speeddeacon View Post
What was surprising to me, however, was actually how close the 235 was to the M2 on track. With the M2's advantage not just in power but suspension and brake components and larger section width tires, for the 235 to be less than 0.5s slower than the M2 seems pretty remarkable. The 228i was over two seconds slower than the 235.
Indeed.
They're really all just slightly different "attitudes" of the same platform.

Like others, I'm also perplexed at how glorious the reviews have been for the M235i compared to the clunker above. All-time highest rated BMW ever, C&D 10 best, Randy Pobst's favorite BMW in 10 years, etc. 1M performance numbers in a more comfortable, more livable, less twitchy package. The E46 reincarnate.

Now this excellent car that handles everything well (except back seat passengers), is compared with a Buick and thrown out with yesterday's news?!?
<coffee spit!>

I get that the 228i is a nimble little thing that can chase Miatta's around in the "fun" category. And that the M2 is a hard-core beast that is best-in-class for tracking.

But the M235i is a brilliant handling, mid-4-second car that can be daily driven, gets reasonable gas mileage and can keep up with many hard core sports cars costing way more. It has small compromises from its Tall and Venti brethren, but a delicious Grande blend of just the right mix!
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      07-06-2016, 12:09 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeomatic View Post
Indeed.
They're really all just slightly different "attitudes" of the same platform.

Like others, I'm also perplexed at how glorious the reviews have been for the M235i compared to the clunker above. All-time highest rated BMW ever, C&D 10 best, Randy Pobst's favorite BMW in 10 years, etc. 1M performance numbers in a more comfortable, more livable, less twitchy package. The E46 reincarnate.
It almost seems like a "make up" review to offset Jason Camissa's complete trashing of the 228i in his comparison with the FR-S and Eco Boost Mustang before he left for Motor Trend.
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      07-07-2016, 09:09 AM   #109
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http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1196947
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      07-07-2016, 05:24 PM   #110
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It's interesting, the M235i receives a lot of flack in north america but for some reasons receives glorifying reviews over here in Europe. Not saying one is right over the other.
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