[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

As for it being too fast because someone can't properly get used to a gas peddle; that's a driver issue not a problem with the car.

Again car for car (apples to apples) there is no reason to go for a 228 over the 235 unless it's for budget reasons (which is perfectly valid).

That's just not true, but you're entitled to your opinion. Not going to waste my time arguing with you.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

Nonsense. Sorry, but there it is. It depends on what you look for in a car, the kind of driving dynamics you like and how you wish to modify it. There are many more 228s being raced than 235s because it's lighter. To make such a confident assertion that the only possible advantage is budgetary is simply ignorant. I do not understand why people take such pride in this form of ignorance.

LOL there are more being raced because they are cheaper and more prevalent. Just like a old miatas compared to new ones.

Depends on the driving dynamics you prefer?? Yet, in the posts above everyone talks about modding the 228 to make more like a 235 to fill in it's gaps.


Pride in ignorance??
I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I wasn't trying to insult you or anyone. Just stating the logic and that everyone has a budget (I choose not to afford a m3 though I want one).

You obviously tried to insult me because you think I was trying to hurt your pride or ego.

[BarryJI]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

Yes, the 228 is better value for most people on a budget.

I am not on a budget.

[Sportstick]

I am increasingly convinced some members refuse or are simply unable to understand anyone else's point of view other than their own and project their own coping mechanisms onto everyone else. They believe they have the "universal truth" about what is "better" or "worse" in the world, whether we must always want "more", and that the only reason one might opine differently is our own need for dissonance reduction. When one is that convinced of the rightness of only their position, and can't at least accept the validity of those who feel differently, the discussion hits the wall we have seen here.

On this thread, I'm out.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

I am not on a budget.

Should have got a 235 then

I have yet to see anyone make a logical argument other than it being a budget consideration (again, that's perfectly fine).

But when people say the 228 is actually a better car it's just not true.

The only thing I can honestly think of is the difference in ride quality. Other than that you're just trying to justify your purchase to yourself.

Argue that the 228 makes more sense from an enthusiast point of view over a 235 and then mod it to be closer to a 235

[BarryJI]

It's a form of mild social handicap, Sportstick. Certain people simply don't know how to express a dissenting opinion in such a way as not to sound both ignorant and antagonistic and they justify their way of expressing themselves as "honest" or "direct" when, at best, it always involves gross over-simplification of a more complex issue that simply eludes them. There is such a huge difference between an assertion ("budget is the only reason you'd buy a 228 over a 235") and an argument (which, at the very least, often involves the phrase "in my opinion"). Amazing how hard that is for some people to learn. Anthony thinks he is right and expresses his opinion as though it's unassailable truth rather than a personal point-of-view. I -- and almost everyone else here -- is allowing for a divergence of opinion.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

It's a form of mild social handicap, Sportstick. Certain people simply don't know how to express a dissenting opinion in such a way as not to sound both ignorant and antagonistic and they justify their way of expressing themselves as "honest" or "direct" when, at best, it always involves gross over-simplification of a more complex issue that simply eludes them. There is such a huge difference between an assertion ("budget is the only reason you'd buy a 228 over a 235") and an argument (which, at the very least, often involves the phrase "in my opinion"). Amazing how hard that is for some people to learn. Anthony thinks he is right and expresses his opinion as though it's unassailable truth rather than a personal point-of-view. I -- and almost everyone else here -- is allowing for a divergence of opinion.

Wonderfully written. Still waiting on why the 228 is a better car over a 235.

[BarryJI]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

Wonderfully written. Still waiting on why the 228 is a better car over a 235.

Listen carefully: it's a matter of opinion. Steak is more expensive than hamburger but that does not make it objectively better.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

Listen carefully: IT'S A MATTER OF OPINION. Steak is more expensive than hamburger but that does not make it objectively better.

I could list a LOT of cars better than a 235 too. I like mine but it's not like it's Lewis Hanilton's weekend car if choice. Saying driver doesn't matter is just ignorant, it's all part of a complicated decision. For me, for instance, the M2 while "better" is completely useless bc u cannot drive it yo the hill to my house in the winter and I don't want a third car.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

Listen carefully: IT'S A MATTER OF OPINION. Steak is more expensive than hamburger but that does not make it objectively better.

We aren't talking about taste buds or if a white car is better than a blue car (it's white by the way).

We are talking about specific tangible measurements.

The cars are basically exactly the same minus a few cosmetic and more than a few functional items.

Now if someone would say they like the way the 228 looks over the 235 then that's the end of my argument (until you do the M package on the 228 to make it look like a 235), but that's not what has been brought up in this discussion of 228 or 235 ownership.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

I could list a LOT of cars better than a 235 too. I like mine but it's not like it's Lewis Hanilton's weekend car if choice. Saying driver doesn't matter is just ignorant, it's all part of a complicated decision. For me, for instance, the M2 while "better" is completely useless bc u cannot drive it yo the hill to my house in the winter and I don't want a third car.

We are not talking about two completely different class of cars.

Driver does matter; but to fault a car because of the driver is not truthful. That was my point.

Your M2 example is perfectly valid. Same with going AWD or RWD with a 2 series.

I think the ride height on the 228 is higher than the 235. So that would be a valid point. Unless you lower your 228...

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

We are not talking about two completely different class of cars.

Driver does matter; but to fault a car because of the driver is not truthful. That was my point.

Your M2 example is perfectly valid. Same with going AWD or RWD with a 2 series.

I think the ride height on the 228 is higher than the 235. So that would be a valid point. Unless you lower your 228...

You missed my point entirely but I'm not going to argue with you. For a specific driver, who wants to do specific things with a car, on roads in their area, the 228 could in fact be a better car. For them. If you took a stock 228 and a stock 235 to a track the 235 may be better for you. But that's not really the point or what OP was asking in the first place.

[Rayscott]

New member here. Does this BS exist on a regular basis. If so, I will soon be an ex member. No offense, I joined for knowledge of a vehicle I would like to purchase in the distant future. I'm so f---ing confused now I think I will figure things out for myself.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

You missed my point entirely but I'm not going to argue with you. For a specific driver, who wants to do specific things with a car, on roads in their area, the 228 could in fact be a better car. For them. If you took a stock 228 and a stock 235 to a track the 235 may be better for you. But that's not really the point or what OP was asking in the first place.

That's not what the OP was asking for in the first place, correct. That's where the conversation went and that's when I decided to post.

Again let me know in what regard a 228 is better than a 235 on certain roads. Again you bring up the driver aspect which is completely silly. The 235 is not some crazy high horsepower beast.

OK yes, if you have no self control between your foot and the gas peddle the 235 will get you into trouble faster. Again, not the cars fault.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by Rayscott

New member here. Does this BS exist on a regular basis. If so, I will soon be an ex member. No offense, I joined for knowledge of a vehicle I would like to purchase in the distant future. I'm so f---ing confused now I think I will figure things out for myself.

Lots of good and bad knowledge here. Read up and make your own decisions. I don't usually get involved in such topics, but it's a slow news day.

Hope I didn't scare you off.

Think 2addicts needs a "safe place".

[Merc for hire]

Anthony235's points are perfectly valid and are backed up by indisputable axioms.
It's those 228i fanatics who are attacking the M235i supporters with subjective reasonings(i.e: slower car is more fun, slightly lighter car handles so much better)

[Merc for hire]

OP should just buy the M235i and don't look back.

[Merc for hire]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I am increasingly convinced some members refuse or are simply unable to understand anyone else's point of view other than their own and project their own coping mechanisms onto everyone else. They believe they have the "universal truth" about what is "better" or "worse" in the world, whether we must always want "more", and that the only reason one might opine differently is our own need for dissonance reduction. When one is that convinced of the rightness of only their position, and can't at least accept the validity of those who feel differently, the discussion hits the wall we have seen here.

On this thread, I'm out.

Thanks. 228i fanatics should listen to Sportstick

[BarryJI]

Originally Posted by Rayscott

New member here. Does this BS exist on a regular basis. If so, I will soon be an ex member. No offense, I joined for knowledge of a vehicle I would like to purchase in the distant future. I'm so f---ing confused now I think I will figure things out for myself.

It's the Internet. There will always be blowhards, ignoramuses and chest-beaters. Luckily there are fewer than usual here and the ones there are, are not that bad.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

Again let me know in what regard a 228 is better than a 235 on certain roads.

You may be waiting a while and listening to crickets.

This is not a case of "whatever is in my garage is better", this is a clear case of certain people trying to justify their purchase.

Did you buy the car because it was a better price? Then good for you, the 228 is a bargain at it's price tag. Do you want better fuel economy? Awesome you are winning that battle too. Like the styling better? To each their own.

Do you want to go faster stock? Straight lines, auto x, canyon runs, maybe an experienced 228 driver can edge out a novice 235 driver here or there. But let's be honest, the better car is the 235, and rightfully so.

If it was not the better car then all of us made a 15k purchase mistake and should have bought the slower car with less adept suspension.

[BarryJI]

Originally Posted by nvmaddog

If it was not the better car then all of us made a 15k purchase mistake and should have bought the slower car with less adept suspension.

That would be a horrible thought, wouldn't it? And quite obviously out of the question. For that $15k you bought a bigger car, not a better one.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

That would be a horrible thought, wouldn't it? And quite obviously out of the question. For that $15k you bought a bigger car, not a better one.

I bet all of those Ferrari drivers really wished they drove Miata's instead, sure would be better to have a few extra inches of head room.