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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum First review of BMW M235i Racing

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      02-09-2014, 01:09 AM   #23
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This is a true BMW Motorsport car since it cannot be driven on the streets at all. 100% Motorsport.
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      02-09-2014, 01:39 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z8chP View Post
Please tell me any professional race car that still uses a manual gearbox.
Please tell me any professional race car driver that doesn't prefer a manual gearbox.
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      02-09-2014, 02:48 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Alumac View Post
Please tell me any professional race car driver that doesn't prefer a manual gearbox.
Are you serious? Why would a racing driver who is paid to own races want anything but the fastest solution. Yeah sure would be nice to have a comfier seat, cooler cabin, softer steering so your arms don't get arm pump etc but it's racing. Fastest lap wins. Sequential or paddle box, light weight etc etc.
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      02-09-2014, 05:33 AM   #26
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So at 81k in the U.S. potentially, would this not make a decent value in terms of a (non racing team) dedicated track car for HPDE or some club racing? When you add up similar aftermarket add ons to an M235i or used M3 how different is it in terms of value?
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      02-09-2014, 06:20 AM   #27
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freaking amazing, perfect E90 replacement..
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      02-09-2014, 07:02 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floridagator View Post
I stopped reading as soon as I saw it had an automatic gearbox.

Welcome back form the 1980's. I hear automatic transmissions back then were terrible! I am glad you are here now. You are safe. We will protect you.


PS: I only drive MT cars, but if I'm racing and I'm counting on fractions of seconds to advance me, I want and auto or DCT. Period. Autos are much more capable IMO from a performance standpoint. They are just faster. No two ways about it. You could have made some kind of logical argument against that statement maybe 5-10 years ago? Manuals on the other hand are more enjoyable to drive, more engaging and just all around badass. Everyone gets that. But personally, I would not want one on the track. It's a liability. Just imagine missing ONE shift, and your whole lap time is down the drain. Not even to mention the much quicker up shifts, rev matched downshifts and convenience of having the paddles right there, never facing the need take your hands off the wheel to up/down shift mid corner or on exit.
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      02-09-2014, 07:02 AM   #29
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The music was mixed way too loud in the video. Kinda annoying.
ABSOLUTELY! I found it annoying as well.
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      02-09-2014, 07:30 AM   #30
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I will buy an M2 if they build it.
I second that!
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      02-09-2014, 09:21 AM   #31
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Wow! It really does sounds like a straight cut gear tranny!
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      02-09-2014, 09:32 AM   #32
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Step one: make a road legal version with a light weight interior and half roll cage.

Step 2: BMW now makes the first true m car in decades.

Step 3: I buy one.
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      02-09-2014, 10:01 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilspiritM3 View Post
So at 81k in the U.S. potentially, would this not make a decent value in terms of a (non racing team) dedicated track car for HPDE or some club racing? When you add up similar aftermarket add ons to an M235i or used M3 how different is it in terms of value?
Sure, you could use it as an HPDE toy. At that price point though, you could buy a Cayman S and drive it to/from the event.

As for club racing, I think that would depend on how the SCCA classed the M235i Racing. I'm not familiar enough with the classes to say, but I know this can be a major sticking point for people looking to go racing on the cheap. Seeing that the M235i Racing isn't a street legal car, it may end up classed in a division that it doesn't have any hope of performing well in.
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      02-09-2014, 10:37 AM   #34
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I still don't get why this car, being specifically for racing, has a stock cooling system (M2 will be upgraded) and stock transmission (M2 will have DCT/manual). Why would you pick this over modifying an M2?
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      02-09-2014, 11:10 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I still don't get why this car, being specifically for racing, has a stock cooling system (M2 will be upgraded) and stock transmission (M2 will have DCT/manual). Why would you pick this over modifying an M2?
Definitely read the review rather than just watch the video. I think the answer to this question (in bold) can be found in two sources:

1) The two excerpts I posted regarding spirit and purpose:

Spirit and purpose
They built this car for grassroots racing enthusiasts.
Quote:
After admiring their Z4 GT3-spec cars up front, they realized that, the further back they went, BMW’s representation was primarily from older E36 and E30 chassis. They didn’t have any modern machinery for the grass roots racers. In fact, their last real product was the M3 GT4, which wasn’t exactly bargain basement.
Accessibility continues to be the driving force behind this car.
Quote:
The M235i Race was designed to offer an affordable access point for track day enthusiasts who want to take the next step up to club, regional or national series. Costing almost 60,000 Euros, about $81,000, it’s relatively affordable for established teams. In fact, BMW reports taking 35 orders in one day at the car’s introduction to European race teams at the Nurburgring, with enquiries continuing to come in.
2) The fact that the M2 isn't done with development. It has been said elsewhere that BMW M intends to take lessons learned from the M235i Racing, and incorporate them in to the M2. That will give the M2 an immediate racing pedigree, which I think is a very savvy move on BMW M's part.

As for the stock cooling and transmissions system, just have a look at the price point. The key word here is accessibility. At €60k, this is the bargain of the century for homologation racing. Every change you make from the stock car costs additional money. The review says that BMW have tested the car extensively and the stock components are up to the challenge (with software tweaks). Presumably, this means they have expanded the safety envelope for limp mode so that the race car can run hotter. This isn't a car that they expect to go 100,000 miles under an extended factory warranty. It's a race car. Things are going to break.

This whole thing (the M235i Racing and delayed M2 release) is very strategic on BMW's part; they're definitely playing chess here. The strategy for the M235i Racing is to provide a gateway to grassroots racing at an accessible price point, while building a racing pedigree for the 2-series that will be used to support the marketing of the M2 as a spiritual successor to the E30 M3. Look for BMW to lean heavily on the notion of the M2 as a race car for the street.
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      02-09-2014, 11:59 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post

The review says that BMW have tested the car extensively and the stock components are up to the challenge (with software tweaks).
This is one thing that hasn't really been discussed. If I had any plans to buy the Racing version, I might be disappointed at the lack of DCT. But since I have zero intention of buying the Racing and I have every intention of buying a stock M235i, possibly with a ZF8, I am thrilled that they put the ZF8 in the Racing version.

I know BMW made important tweaks, but it gives me just a little bit more confidence in the ZF8's ability to handle power mods, knowing that they went with the same basic setup in a car that will be run ten times harder than I'll ever run mine.

Obviously I want to know exactly what's different about the Racing transmission before I conclude anything; and it doesn't get me completely in the clear because the Racing has essentially stock power figures. The ability to take sustained stress from a certain amount of power doesn't necessarily mean the tranny's up for short bursts of stress at increased power levels.

Nonetheless, it will be an interesting experiment for anyone interested in an auto M235i to sit back and watch.
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      02-09-2014, 01:19 PM   #37
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Why No DCT ?

Quote:
So why not DCT? After all, it’s their flagship transmission and reputedly the most advanced around. Well, it’s a simple matter of economics. The M235i wasn’t engineered for DCT, so developing it solely for the racecar would introduce greater cost, a longer gestation period and more expensive repairs.
Based on the "history" of BMW and what cars they put their DCT into this statement does not hold weight

The 135i and 335i wasn't engineered for DCT either. They are not even M cars. There was no hint or clue that BMW would ever put an M sport division DCT into a 1 series or 3 series, but they did.

The M235 is an M car all the way around, which make it even easier for it to have a DCT

If you put a DCT on an M235 it will be a conflict of interests to the M3/M4. Its all about sales an marketing, not no darn engineering crap.
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      02-09-2014, 02:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Based on the "history" of BMW and what cars they put their DCT into this statement does not hold weight

The 135i and 335i wasn't engineered for DCT either. They are not even M cars. There was no hint or clue that BMW would ever put an M sport division DCT into a 1 series or 3 series, but they did.

The M235 is an M car all the way around, which make it even easier for it to have a DCT

If you put a DCT on an M235 it will be a conflict of interests to the M3/M4. Its all about sales an marketing, not no darn engineering crap.
Brilliant! You sure have outsmarted those engineers at BMW Motorsport and those silly marketing people as well. How did you find out the 135 and 335 weren't engineered for DCT?! Broke into the old file storage eh? Naughty. Why don't you just take the reins over and start marking better race cars?

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      02-09-2014, 03:23 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Based on the "history" of BMW and what cars they put their DCT into this statement does not hold weight

The 135i and 335i wasn't engineered for DCT either. They are not even M cars. There was no hint or clue that BMW would ever put an M sport division DCT into a 1 series or 3 series, but they did.

The M235 is an M car all the way around, which make it even easier for it to have a DCT

If you put a DCT on an M235 it will be a conflict of interests to the M3/M4. Its all about sales an marketing, not no darn engineering crap.
I think you've misinterpreted what they're saying. When they say the car "wasn't engineered for the DCT", they don't mean engineering feasibility. Instead, they're using the term engineering to refer to a process of engineering the components to work together. This includes software and tuning. There is a cost associated with this process.

Keep in mind that the M235i is not sold with the DCT in any trim level, so if they were to use the DCT in the M235i Racing, that cost would be bespoke, and would have to be built in to the cost of the race cars. It's a simple matter of economics, not mechanical feasibility.
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      02-09-2014, 03:45 PM   #40
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Why upgrade the cooling system when it held up to two solid weeks of testing on the ring?

You could upgrade any part but then a load of forum warriors would whinge about the price or the cost and it would be no better for it.
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      02-09-2014, 06:33 PM   #41
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Omg I want one.
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      02-09-2014, 07:30 PM   #42
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I wonder if it's the same ZF 8 spd as in the F30??
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      02-09-2014, 08:43 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
I wonder if it's the same ZF 8 spd as in the F30??
According to the article, it is internally "stock", which means it's the same transmission that is in the M235i road car. I can't imagine they use a different unit in the M235i and the 335i.
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      02-09-2014, 09:21 PM   #44
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Very cool car! I was already excited when I read that the production version will get rid of the stupid display in the line of sight! I have been saying all along this is ridiculous placement for an ultimate driving machine and I dislike it so much that I have not put money down an any BMW with it. I'm glad to see that the real Motorsport people got it. I only hope that if they do a display delete, that we can get parts and do it on a street version!
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