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      10-21-2014, 08:58 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaeron View Post
http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=883

If you notice the Cayenne is the most popular product that Porsche makes. Also do not forget that Porsche soon will be using VW's MBQ platform for all their cars. They already use it for the hideous Panamera.

So yea Porsche is diluted but then again I think people forget that horribly ugly front engine porsche made in the 80s..

If BMW is diluted for making more models than the Cayenne, Macan, and Panamera should all be proof that the old porsche is gone. BMW's claim was sporty luxury vehicles. They never claimed to make sports cars and in their home country they have NEVER been viewed like American's try to make that brand out to be. I mean the first BMW to come to america after being purchased by the current owners was a mustang competitor. Should BMW go back to the drawing board and say "Hey we are going to go back to competing against American muscles cars!"


Porsche equals Sports cars. They wanted to be the German Ferrari that you could use everyday. Porsche made the Cayenne as a cash grab and before they were purchased by VW who ironically they were attempting to buy. Simply put the Cayenne is the vehicle that allows Porsche to make the cars people love and now with VAG money they can do more. Also look at Audi as for years Audi struggled against Mercedes and BMW. It took the VAg group pouring billions of cash into Audi for them to finally make headway. Ferdinand Piech said VAG would spend as much as possible for Audi to become the number 1 luxury car.

Might not like it but BMW has to sell more cars if they wish to compete against the VAG backed Audi who's R&D is not affected by their own cash pool. If Audi is profitable then not only does Audi have Audi money to develop better cars but also VW money. Mercedes is in the same boat as they have always used commercial sales and now have been producing lower end cars because their competition is not just Audi and BMW but the VAG.

In summation if either Merc or BMW are to survive and not get crushed by the VAG they must compete against it. If BMW kept to what many of you people claim they should do Audi will crush them.
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      10-21-2014, 09:15 PM   #46
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You have GOT to be kidding me. Another one?!
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      10-21-2014, 11:39 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEEM3R View Post
You have GOT to be kidding me. Another one?!
I understand the "moar choices = better" argument, but this is retarded. The 2 is a revitalization of the sport coupe.

I agree this should have been called a 1 series, I wouldn't mind the additional choice if it didn't water down the 2 which is a unique drivers coupe. I hate these names and I think they are watering down the brand and poaching their own sales at this point.
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      10-21-2014, 11:43 PM   #48
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BMW needs to stop his GT Nonsense.
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TRAITOR.
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TRAITOR.
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      10-22-2014, 12:02 AM   #49
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Oh crap....... here we go again
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      10-22-2014, 12:21 AM   #50
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Blah, blah blah blah, blah blah ba.
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      10-22-2014, 12:26 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Here is the look of the 2 Series Gran Turismo from Autobild.

The 2er GT is the next logical step...
I'd pay good money for BMW to take the next illogical step.
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      10-22-2014, 12:53 AM   #52
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      10-22-2014, 01:17 AM   #53
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No No NO NO NO! CUVs are taking over, even when they don't make any sense! It's the Chinese market driving this trend...
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      10-22-2014, 01:58 AM   #54
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i would say why not! we all have different tastes etc
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      10-22-2014, 02:03 AM   #55
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Well if random photoshopped parts from the whole bmw lineup stick together can be called a "render"...
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      10-22-2014, 03:19 AM   #56
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Expect the pick-up truck next year. BMW is like the poor little sheep, they have lost their way.
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      10-22-2014, 03:39 AM   #57
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BMW,
do all of us a favour and make finally a proper sports car.

Do not bother us with these crap models you recently put all of your effort to.

Otherwise in 10-15 years people will have dilemma whether to buy Toyota or BMW.
You have lost big distance to MB already and Audi is now overtaking you big time.
You used to be a benchmark in terms of car dynamics and now VW Golf is faster than you. Shame on you!
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      10-22-2014, 04:16 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qbix View Post
BMW,
do all of us a favour and make finally a proper sports car.

Do not bother us with these crap models you recently put all of your effort to.

Otherwise in 10-15 years people will have dilemma whether to buy Toyota or BMW.
You have lost big distance to MB already and Audi is now overtaking you big time.
You used to be a benchmark in terms of car dynamics and now VW Golf is faster than you. Shame on you!
I agree. We've all heard it a million times by now. BMW needs more low end models to survive etc because Audi has VW and BMW has nothing to compete with VW models. If BMW's competition is now VW then I suggest anyone interested in buying a 'premium' car should switch to a real premium brand such as Porsche or Mercedes. Before anyone says Mercedes is also making lower end cars such as the CLA and GlA, they're also making cars like the V12 AMG's and Pullmans at the top of the range to offset the image created by cheaper cars. But of course BMW has the excuse that they can't compete with Rolls Royce. RR starts at nearly $300k so where's the $200k BMW?! Resting on its laurels for too long is going to cost BMW big time in the near future. I can safely say that I've bought my last BMW if things continue the way they are right now. Of course BMW couldn't care less about losing one customer but something tells me there's a lot more people who share my point of view.
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      10-22-2014, 06:20 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jai 302 View Post
I agree. We've all heard it a million times by now. BMW needs more low end models to survive etc because Audi has VW and BMW has nothing to compete with VW models. If BMW's competition is now VW then I suggest anyone interested in buying a 'premium' car should switch to a real premium brand such as Porsche or Mercedes. Before anyone says Mercedes is also making lower end cars such as the CLA and GlA, they're also making cars like the V12 AMG's and Pullmans at the top of the range to offset the image created by cheaper cars. But of course BMW has the excuse that they can't compete with Rolls Royce. RR starts at nearly $300k so where's the $200k BMW?! Resting on its laurels for too long is going to cost BMW big time in the near future. I can safely say that I've bought my last BMW if things continue the way they are right now. Of course BMW couldn't care less about losing one customer but something tells me there's a lot more people who share my point of view.
I think you entirely misunderstand the situation with VW. BMW's competition at every level comes from VW Group products. Be it Mini, BMW or Rolls Royce, they have competition from VW, Skoda, Seat, Audi, Porsche or Bentley (not forgetting that VW also directly/indirectly own Lamboghini and Bugatti, as well as MAN and Scania for further revenue). The problem isn't so much that BMW's products do/do not compete with VW badged products it's that VW can do pretty much anything they want within their group of companies, and target whoever and whatever they want. BMW is bookended by two relatively niche brands, to increase core sales BMW Group has to introduce more models with it's BMW brand, it does not have the choice or flexibility that VW do, and they cannot do it as profitably, because they do not get the economies of scale that VW group does.

And so you could say it's not all about sales or profit. That's a great ideal to have, but thanks to its share structure I believe* around half the company is basically up for sale at any one time. If they don't generate profits, shareholders sell, if shareholders sell, what's to stop VW/Porsche or any of it's main investors or holding companies buying them up. Think it won't happen? Maybe, maybe not, but BMW nearly once ended up being swallowed up by Daimler-Benz, and even in this era, BMW current sharegholders had to block a move by VW to buy into SGL Carbon (pretty crucial for BMW). This isn't so much an issue for the likes of Audi, because they have no public shareholders at all, they report only (99.5%) to VW. And VW themselves have never had so much of a problem in the past because of protected "state of lower Saxony" shares in VW meaning historically it was never worth anyone else trying to take control of them. Just look at the VW vs. Porsche ownership debacle.

Like it or not, BMW has to react to the market, and it has to do so in a way that some people don't like. It simply cannot behave like it's competitors because it's not big enough and it's group structure just isn't comparable.

... and BMW does seem to be addressing the issue with the range at the top now, with talk of the '9' series (Vision Future Luxury), and associated body styles (a coupe - Gran Lusso), as well as the X7. Perhaps it doesn't happen as fast as you like, but they can't just simply magic these things up over night, the low end models are required to fund the bigger models, it simply can't happen any quicker the other way around.

No doubt some will argue that BMW-i was a waste of money that could have been spent elsewhere, but the fact is, even if they discontinued the i3 and i8 after one generation, they research and development, the techniques, the equipment and the facilities can be carried over into every single other car they make.

As for Mercedes, I can only assume that also selling trucks and buses, along with decades of selling compact FWD hatchbacks, along with platform and engine sharing with likes of Chrysler gave them enough of a leg-up to keep producing so many top-end cars, whilst at the same time loosing in the sales race to both Audi and BMW.

So, guess what.. BMW forms a partnership with Toyota to enable them to do a similar thing... and what happens... you lot Bitch and Bleat about it constantly.

Maybe some people here think we just live in an ideal world, or perhaps I'm being to generous... maybe they're just short-sighted and narrow-minded.

Enjoy your next car, whatever it may be. The Mercedes S class Coupe looks great... it's probably either that, or a VW Group product.
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      10-22-2014, 07:01 AM   #60
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So this just changed their entire model number theory. It was 3/5 gt and now an even number gt. What the..... Make up your mind BMW. Stop making more models and refine what you have and add more standard features.
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      10-22-2014, 07:18 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86
Ditto!
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      10-22-2014, 07:36 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny84
They should rather focus on a 2er Gran Coupe
Yes. I see A3's and CLA's everywhere BMW is missing out on a market. I would love a 2GC with a N55 or B58.
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      10-22-2014, 08:27 AM   #63
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I never understood this. If you don't want it, don't buy it. No one is putting a gun to your head and saying you need to buy this car over a BMW XXX. Personally, I couldn't care less about a car like this, but if they still make a car like an M2 or something like a Z4M in the future, then I'm a happy camper.

I find it hilarious that all these so called "purists" (that actually have very little experience with older BMW's) come on here and say how this and that is so diluted now. Look, I'll never go out there and buy a $70k BMW X6. But I understand that the thing is a cash cow. If that profit can be turned around and used for more CF parts research and better brakes on M cars (finally), then by all means.

My 2 cents.

Also, I see the collaboration with Toyota as nothing but a good thing personally.
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      10-22-2014, 08:50 AM   #64
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I have HATED ALL BMW GT models.... This 2GT looks great! I hope the production model looks exactly like this and bmw shares this styling front and rear with other models.
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      10-22-2014, 09:27 AM   #65
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So we do not get the RWD 2 GC, but we get the UKL fwd 2 GT. I am the target demographic for the 2GC/GT, but FWD=no sale for me.
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      10-22-2014, 09:46 AM   #66
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Too many models and now bordering on the ridiculous side.Talk about watering down a product. Once you narrow down a choice it's Luxury/Modern/Sport line or M-Sport.
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