[turbotoy4me]

If these are the production headlights and tail lights. I love it very clean and progressive looking.

[Cope]

Would it kill them to give us a proper wagon without it being neutered?

[Cavpilot2k]

What a positively awful car!
Then again, I think the 3-series GT is about the ugliest thing BMW has produced in my memory. It looks like someone in Munich thought the Porsche Panamera actually looked good (thereby placing themselves in a worldwide population of exactly 1).

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by BMW F22

Looks... bad.

Edited for you.
You're welcome.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

What a positively awful car!
Then again, I think the 3-series GT is about the ugliest thing BMW has produced in my memory. It looks like someone in Munich thought the Porsche Panamera actually looked good (thereby placing themselves in a worldwide population of exactly 1).

Well the Panamera has met with huge success for Porsche and is profitable.
They sell thousands.

The current BMW Gran Turismo models exceed their 10% of overall 5er and 3er sales as initially projected with the 3er Gran Turismo proving even popular over the projected 10% especially as it is the only premium d- segment model with a hatch in Europe in the face of declining d segment volume models.
A 5dr C-Klasse is also being developed for this reason.
A key important factor for Europe is the flexibility of a hatch.

Why not continue this in the compact segment?
The global sector for further growth lies with the compact segment.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Cope

Would it kill them to give us a proper wagon without it being neutered?

There won't be a 2er wagon. Or Touring for any market.

Even if there was it would not be offered in the US. The Touring models are more or less eclipsed by the 2er Active and Gran Tourer. As well as increased passenger flexibility, they also over exceptional loading space above a Touring especially the Gran Tourer.

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Well the Panamera has met with huge success for Porsche and is profitable.
They sell thousands.

The current BMW Gran Turismo models exceed their 10% of overall 5er and 3er sales as initially projected with the 3er Gran Turismo proving even popular over the projected 10% especially as it is the only premium d- segment model with a hatch in Europe in the face of declining d segment volume models.
A 5dr C-Klasse is also being developed for this reason.
A key important factor for Europe is the flexibility of a hatch.

Why not continue this in the compact segment?
The global sector for further growth lies with the compact segment.

Yeah, I totally understand that they sell well, and I am all for a car for every niche. Just from an aesthetics point of view (for which there is only a single universal truth, right?), I really dislike the GT I saw at my dealer. I thought it was hideous. Conversely, I thought the 4 series GC was similar but much nicer (though for a different niche).

And I know the Panamera has been a great seller for them - I see them all over Boston. But I still think it is hideous. And I don't know many people who don't own them who think they are attractive (if you pay that kind of money for a car, you kinda have to drink the kool-aid otherwise you'll kick yourself everytime you see it).

And as for a car for every niche, I'll take my M2 without all the gadgets, please.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by W///

I never understood this. If you don't want it, don't buy it. No one is putting a gun to your head and saying you need to buy this car over a BMW XXX. Personally, I couldn't care less about a car like this, but if they still make a car like an M2 or something like a Z4M in the future, then I'm a happy camper.

And what exactly are they going to base an M2 off of if there is no small RWD platform???

[Cope]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

There won't be a 2er wagon. Or Touring for any market.

Even if there was it would not be offered in the US. The Touring models are more or less eclipsed by the 2er Active and Gran Tourer. As well as increased passenger flexibility, they also over exceptional loading space above a Touring especially the Gran Tourer.

2er wagon? A shooting brake version of the 2er would be exceptional. Market it as a low cost alternative to the Ferrari FF miright?

The GT models offer little except about 100 lbs more in weight over the much nicer looking equivalent touring models.

[Imola.ZHP]

Stupid, just when we thought we had their thinking figured out, they go and mess it up.

2er Active Tourer and 2er Grand Tourer? Why?

Should be a sexy 2er GC, but better than the 4er GC which is more of a gran-hatch, you don't have to copy everything Audi does, go your own path BMW, go your own way.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by Cope

The GT models offer little except about 100 lbs more in weight over the much nicer looking equivalent touring models.

Slightly higher driving position (lots of people seem to like this), quite a bit more passenger space, and, at least in the case of the 5GT a volumetricaly larger boot space, with a larger loading aperture.

As for looks, tourers are very common here, perhaps when you see so many of them they just become average. At least the GT's stand out, and like them or not, I think they've got quite a bit more on road presence that the equivalent tourers.

[DuhCar]

To SCOTT26
Thanks for the news about the 2 series GC. I've been waiting for this variation to materialize as my 2007 E93 is getting long in the tooth. There was some talk last year, but then deathly silence.

Wondering about numbering for it (F24?) and the possible timing? Still no spy shots so thinking will be MY2016.

Comments anyone?

[Cope]

Originally Posted by Matski

Slightly higher driving position (lots of people seem to like this), quite a bit more passenger space, and, at least in the case of the 5GT a volumetricaly larger boot space, with a larger loading aperture.

I'll let my grandparents know I found the perfect car for them.

Rational arguments aside; I understand these polarizing monstrosities are here to stay.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

A terrific and well articulated description of auto strategy, tactic and the challenges BMW faces competing in the global market.

Well done...hopefully some of the whiners are just slightly more enlightened after reading this....

Originally Posted by Matski

I think you entirely misunderstand the situation with VW. BMW's competition at every level comes from VW Group products. Be it Mini, BMW or Rolls Royce, they have competition from VW, Skoda, Seat, Audi, Porsche or Bentley (not forgetting that VW also directly/indirectly own Lamboghini and Bugatti, as well as MAN and Scania for further revenue). The problem isn't so much that BMW's products do/do not compete with VW badged products it's that VW can do pretty much anything they want within their group of companies, and target whoever and whatever they want. BMW is bookended by two relatively niche brands, to increase core sales BMW Group has to introduce more models with it's BMW brand, it does not have the choice or flexibility that VW do, and they cannot do it as profitably, because they do not get the economies of scale that VW group does.

And so you could say it's not all about sales or profit. That's a great ideal to have, but thanks to its share structure I believe* around half the company is basically up for sale at any one time. If they don't generate profits, shareholders sell, if shareholders sell, what's to stop VW/Porsche or any of it's main investors or holding companies buying them up. Think it won't happen? Maybe, maybe not, but BMW nearly once ended up being swallowed up by Daimler-Benz, and even in this era, BMW current sharegholders had to block a move by VW to buy into SGL Carbon (pretty crucial for BMW). This isn't so much an issue for the likes of Audi, because they have no public shareholders at all, they report only (99.5%) to VW. And VW themselves have never had so much of a problem in the past because of protected "state of lower Saxony" shares in VW meaning historically it was never worth anyone else trying to take control of them. Just look at the VW vs. Porsche ownership debacle.

Like it or not, BMW has to react to the market, and it has to do so in a way that some people don't like. It simply cannot behave like it's competitors because it's not big enough and it's group structure just isn't comparable.

... and BMW does seem to be addressing the issue with the range at the top now, with talk of the '9' series (Vision Future Luxury), and associated body styles (a coupe - Gran Lusso), as well as the X7. Perhaps it doesn't happen as fast as you like, but they can't just simply magic these things up over night, the low end models are required to fund the bigger models, it simply can't happen any quicker the other way around.

No doubt some will argue that BMW-i was a waste of money that could have been spent elsewhere, but the fact is, even if they discontinued the i3 and i8 after one generation, they research and development, the techniques, the equipment and the facilities can be carried over into every single other car they make.

As for Mercedes, I can only assume that also selling trucks and buses, along with decades of selling compact FWD hatchbacks, along with platform and engine sharing with likes of Chrysler gave them enough of a leg-up to keep producing so many top-end cars, whilst at the same time loosing in the sales race to both Audi and BMW.

So, guess what.. BMW forms a partnership with Toyota to enable them to do a similar thing... and what happens... you lot Bitch and Bleat about it constantly.

Maybe some people here think we just live in an ideal world, or perhaps I'm being to generous... maybe they're just short-sighted and narrow-minded.

Enjoy your next car, whatever it may be. The Mercedes S class Coupe looks great... it's probably either that, or a VW Group product.

[E90M3JETS]

Looks promissing

[Eeighty8]

Fascinating info. Thanks Scott.

[Jonathane24]

What I don't get is why they would give it the name 2er GT and not 1 GT.. Even numbers are for the Gran Coupes or am I wrong? Scott26 could you perhaps explain me why.