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      09-10-2014, 10:42 AM   #1
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So, I drove my buddy's N54 135...and have some buyer's remorse

Well guys, I am coming up on 6 months of ownership - I took delivery in March, and I was planning to do an update to my original review, for which the link appears below.

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showt...ight=135+owner

I changed jobs in July, and I have a new buddy whose office is right next to mine, and he has a 2008 N54 135 - so we have been shooting the shit quite a bit about the cars, where they are similar, different, etc.

We have both been traveling a lot and hadn't gotten a chance to swap cars and trade impressions - for me, I didnt think that there would be anything particularly illuminating from my drive in his car, as I had an N54 135 and an N55 135 before getting my 2er in March.

Well, we were finally able to "swap" yesterday and spend some time on some back roads here in North Dallas...and as the title states, I have to admit I am a little disappointed with the M235.

As I said in my original review, the M235 "felt" bigger to me after just a few days of ownership. That feeling was exacerbated and much more prominent yesterday after getting back into the E82.

Additionally, and worse than my original impression in March, the M235 felt squishy and somewhat lazy in comparison to the N54 135. The E82 just feels more "urgent" in every way. The steering is tighter. The car feels more compact. The engine felt like it revved more quickly and had a better throttle response. And yes, I was driving in Sport + in the M235 and am in that mode 99% of the time anyway. My buddy drove in Sport + as well.

Furthermore, we did 4-5 rolling runs against each other - both with him driving my car and me driving my car - the N54 135 pulled on the M235 in every situation - rolling from 20 MPH in 2nd gear, rolling from 40 MPH in 3rd gear, etc. So even if he is a better driver than me, it doesn't matter - the M235 was "slower" everywhere under ~80 MPH.

Both cars are bone stock. Both are manual transmissions. Same tires even.

I guess my main takeaway is disappointment, specifically in the M235's version of the N55. My general "sideways thumb" opinion of the N55 has been well documented , but the experience yesterday really pulled that back to the front of my mind. Unless BMW does something very interesting with this engine, I really wonder about the M2...

And I am not saying the M235 is slow...or a bad car...or anything like that - it is simply not a step forward from a feel perspective. I mean, the M235 is supposed to be analogous to a 135is, at least to me - and it is remarkably more soft and slow (at least yesterday in North Dallas) than a bone stock N54 135. Feels more like a sideways step, performance-wise, after this experience.

I still think there are areas in which the M235 is better - and my new buddy agreed on a lot of these. Better looking. Better seats. Better interior. More comfortable (aka squishy). Better gas mileage (although, I still contend that Eco mode is dangerous). Better sounding, although some of that is fake.

The M235 is still a very good car. But I didn't realize what I was missing from my old N54 days until yesterday. Just my opinion...

We are also planning to do some additional runs and comparisons - he has a GoPro that we are going to use for some action/sound shots. We will definitely post them up for you guys.
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      09-10-2014, 10:54 AM   #2
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Meh, I had the N54 135i, and while performance wise, I agree the thing was a monster, I saw one driving the other day and the design is just too awkward. The 2er is much more refined. Aren't the numbers on the 235 better as well?
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      09-10-2014, 11:15 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Well guys, I am coming up on 6 months of ownership - I took delivery in March, and I was planning to do an update to my original review, for which the link appears below.

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showt...ight=135+owner

I changed jobs in July, and I have a new buddy whose office is right next to mine, and he has a 2008 N54 135 - so we have been shooting the shit quite a bit about the cars, where they are similar, different, etc.

We have both been traveling a lot and hadn't gotten a chance to swap cars and trade impressions - for me, I didnt think that there would be anything particularly illuminating from my drive in his car, as I had an N54 135 and an N55 135 before getting my 2er in March.

Well, we were finally able to "swap" yesterday and spend some time on some back roads here in North Dallas...and as the title states, I have to admit I am a little disappointed with the M235.

As I said in my original review, the M235 "felt" bigger to me after just a few days of ownership. That feeling was exacerbated and much more prominent yesterday after getting back into the E82.

Additionally, and worse than my original impression in March, the M235 felt squishy and somewhat lazy in comparison to the N54 135. The E82 just feels more "urgent" in every way. The steering is tighter. The car feels more compact. The engine felt like it revved more quickly and had a better throttle response. And yes, I was driving in Sport + in the M235 and am in that mode 99% of the time anyway. My buddy drove in Sport + as well.

Furthermore, we did 4-5 rolling runs against each other - both with him driving my car and me driving my car - the N54 135 pulled on the M235 in every situation - rolling from 20 MPH in 2nd gear, rolling from 40 MPH in 3rd gear, etc. So even if he is a better driver than me, it doesn't matter - the M235 was "slower" everywhere under ~80 MPH.

Both cars are bone stock. Both are manual transmissions. Same tires even.

I guess my main takeaway is disappointment, specifically in the M235's version of the N55. My general "sideways thumb" opinion of the N55 has been well documented , but the experience yesterday really pulled that back to the front of my mind. Unless BMW does something very interesting with this engine, I really wonder about the M2...

And I am not saying the M235 is slow...or a bad car...or anything like that - it is simply not a step forward from a feel perspective. I mean, the M235 is supposed to be analogous to a 135is, at least to me - and it is remarkably more soft and slow (at least yesterday in North Dallas) than a bone stock N54 135. Feels more like a sideways step, performance-wise, after this experience.

I still think there are areas in which the M235 is better - and my new buddy agreed on a lot of these. Better looking. Better seats. Better interior. More comfortable (aka squishy). Better gas mileage (although, I still contend that Eco mode is dangerous). Better sounding, although some of that is fake.

The M235 is still a very good car. But I didn't realize what I was missing from my old N54 days until yesterday. Just my opinion...

We are also planning to do some additional runs and comparisons - he has a GoPro that we are going to use for some action/sound shots. We will definitely post them up for you guys.
Thanks for posting this! Especially in the current climate where any opinion that is different than the masses is categorized and discounted as a "hater."

I share your concerns about the M2 and have gone on record that if it's a faster yet squishy version of the M235i, I would take the 235i and save the money. I want more focus on performance and feel over infotainment and comfort in the M2. I still like the M235i because it's the best new BMW package out there but I find it ironic that they gave it an M designation yet it feels less edgy and alive as previous 1 series.

Also agree, materials are better and it looks better than 135i but looks and interior only go so far. Your line about it being more of a lateral move really hits the nail in the head. They improved looks and materials, gave you free idrive(for those that like it) but at the expense of excitement.

It doesn't mean we hate it, just that we are car guys and we love cars and love thinking and talking about them. I told my son that he needs to improve on a few things and no lack of love there!

Thanks again!
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      09-10-2014, 11:27 AM   #4
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Not to dispute your butt dyna or the fact you lost to the 135 but doing a Google search says the "best" time recorded was a 4.7 in both Car and Driver and Motor Trend for the 135. The same magazines got a 4.3 and a 4.4 with the M235. Every other article said 4.8 -5.1 for the 135.
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      09-10-2014, 11:29 AM   #5
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I think in most cases, satisfaction with a new car (or lack thereof) weighs significantly on the car you traded in.

I came from a 10-year ownership of a 2004 Mazda RX-8, so my new M235i seems better to me in every aspect. Had I come from a 600+ HP 'vette, I might be disappointed in the performance department.

In any case, just about every car has to compromise something to gain something somewhere else. For starters, the deuce series is larger...

I'm at a point in life (finally) that if I wasn't truly happy with a new car, I'd find something else.
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      09-10-2014, 11:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golf_234 View Post
Meh, I had the N54 135i, and while performance wise, I agree the thing was a monster, I saw one driving the other day and the design is just too awkward. The 2er is much more refined. Aren't the numbers on the 235 better as well?
The 2er is definitely more refined - but I am not sure that is the best thing, or maybe I need a different type of car. Having owned both, they have positives and negatives - the feel of the 1er was just much more visceral to me yesterday.

And yes, the numbers ARE better from the M235 - not disputing that, but there is definitely a trade off from one to the other...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Thanks for posting this! Especially in the current climate where any opinion that is different than the masses is categorized and discounted as a "hater."

I share your concerns about the M2 and have gone on record that if it's a faster yet squishy version of the M235i, I would take the 235i and save the money. I want more focus on performance and feel over infotainment and comfort in the M2. I still like the M235i because it's the best new BMW package out there but I find it ironic that they gave it an M designation yet it feels less edgy and alive as previous 1 series.

Also agree, materials are better and it looks better than 135i but looks and interior only go so far. Your line about it being more of a lateral move really hits the nail in the head. They improved looks and materials, gave you free idrive(for those that like it) but at the expense of excitement.

It doesn't mean we hate it, just that we are car guys and we love cars and love thinking and talking about them. I told my son that he needs to improve on a few things and no lack of love there!

Thanks again!
I guess it just made me realize that maybe I had bought into the hype around the M235 more than I had known - you hear the Consumer report 98/100 (best score for BMW ever), countless glowing articles from magazines, etc...and the marketing team has done their respective jobs well.

I also suppose I don't represent a very large section of the market - I am single, make decent money, and care more about how something feels from a driving standpoint than if I am sitting in an interior that is good enough for the Waldorf or is as advanced as the starship Enterprise.

Again, the 2er is still a very good car. But I think it's a little softer and less involving than what I had experienced in the N54 135. I can't even imagine how much better a 1M would feel - that's on another f*cking planet as far as I am concerned. And that's down to a few things, most notably the engine...

Makes me really wonder if BMW can get the M2 "right"....we shall see...
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      09-10-2014, 11:44 AM   #7
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That sucks. I have seen someone post an issue with Turbo Boost Sensor. He didn't find out until he put it on a dyno. I wonder if you're having an issue. Did you run from a stand still? Was it close? Is your car auto? Wondering if the gearing may of been an issue.


I would of been great to of seen a video.
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      09-10-2014, 11:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ View Post
That sucks. I have seen someone post an issue with Turbo Boost Sensor. He didn't find out until he put it on a dyno. I wonder if you're having an issue. Did you run from a stand still? Was it close? Is your car auto? Wondering if the gearing may of been an issue.


I would of been great to of seen a video.
Interesting - had not heard about the boost sensor issue, might see if I can get that checked out.

Not auto, for either one of us - both MT. And we ran from a roll - 2nd gear and ~20 MPH and then 3rd gear and ~40 MPH. the 135 didn't "dust" the M235, but it was pulling away - regardless of who was driving.

We are going to make some vids with his GoPro...will post those for sure.
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      09-10-2014, 11:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ
That sucks. I have seen someone post an issue with Turbo Boost Sensor. He didn't find out until he put it on a dyno. I wonder if you're having an issue. Did you run from a stand still? Was it close? Is your car auto? Wondering if the gearing may of been an issue.


I would of been great to of seen a video.
Rolling starts, which makes this all the more interesting. From standstill, anything can happen with the launch, so I guess it would be acceptable if it lost there. But I'm really surprised with this.
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      09-10-2014, 11:56 AM   #10
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So are you considering changing car anytime soon? Would you trade the M235i for a 1M/135is?
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      09-10-2014, 11:58 AM   #11
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interesting comments, OP. i've driven a 135i and consider the 235i superior in just about every way. professional reviewers seem to agree. you dislike the "squishy" feeling but all objective data shows that the 235 handles much better. maybe a long shot, but are your tires properly inflated? as far as acceleration goes, if your car is losing to a 135 that badly, i (like others above) have to wonder if there's a mechanical issue. are you sure the 135 is stock?

edit: you also might try doing the throttle reset that was posted on here a while ago.
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      09-10-2014, 12:04 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Anodite10 View Post
So are you considering changing car anytime soon? Would you trade the M235i for a 1M/135is?
Would definitely trade for a 1M - not an 135is I don't think.

I really wanted a 1M, but the timing didn't work out.

I honestly have no idea what I will do...I want to see what the M2 brings before I do anything rash.
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      09-10-2014, 12:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anodite10 View Post
So are you considering changing car anytime soon? Would you trade the M235i for a 1M/135is?
Would definitely trade for a 1M - not an 135is I don't think.

I really wanted a 1M, but the timing didn't work out.

I honestly have no idea what I will do...I want to see what the M2 brings before I do anything rash.
I think you're going to like the M2. It's a proper M so it will most likely be impressive!

Yeah the 1M is so special. Pity for us about those prices though..
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      09-10-2014, 12:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky13 View Post
Not to dispute your butt dyna or the fact you lost to the 135 but doing a Google search says the "best" time recorded was a 4.7 in both Car and Driver and Motor Trend for the 135. The same magazines got a 4.3 and a 4.4 with the M235. Every other article said 4.8 -5.1 for the 135.
I agree that the M235i has been widely observed as faster than the 135, but he did rolling runs, so 0-60 differences won't tell us much. Maybe 1/4 mile trap speeds would be more telling? Not sure.
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      09-10-2014, 12:29 PM   #15
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My car is auto

at 20mph I would of been in 1st gear at 4k (in the meat)
at 40mph I would of been in 2nd gear at 4k

what was the rpm?



Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Interesting - had not heard about the boost sensor issue, might see if I can get that checked out.

Not auto, for either one of us - both MT. And we ran from a roll - 2nd gear and ~20 MPH and then 3rd gear and ~40 MPH. the 135 didn't "dust" the M235, but it was pulling away - regardless of who was driving.

We are going to make some vids with his GoPro...will post those for sure.
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      09-10-2014, 12:29 PM   #16
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I think your new "friend" was hiding a Dinan Stage 2 ECU flash from you. I remember my N54 E92 with it installed and it was wicked fast for a 335i.
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      09-10-2014, 12:38 PM   #17
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Dude I wouldn't have remorse If you logically think about it for the price we all paid for this car we all can be driving a much faster car. Remember why you bought it.

I modded mine with a tune, exhaust and springs and I have to say I LOVE IT. I've owned a c6 z06, 600hp SVT, and a jdm. I must say this is my favorite car. For me its the perfect size and great combination of driver/performance/practicality/capability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Would definitely trade for a 1M - not an 135is I don't think.

I really wanted a 1M, but the timing didn't work out.

I honestly have no idea what I will do...I want to see what the M2 brings before I do anything rash.
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      09-10-2014, 12:43 PM   #18
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Would be interesting to compare 5-60 rolling start times in Car and Driver between the 135is and M235i, but I don't think they've tested a 6MT for the M235i yet. Still, we at least know that the manual 135is did it in 5.2, and the automatic M235i did it in 5.1. Given that the automatic has more ratios and is known to be faster compared with the manual, I'd say the M235i probably is a hair slower.

I currently have an E90 328i w/ sport package and a 228i sport line (both manual) in my garage, and I can basically echo your sentiments that BMWs seem to be getting softer and less performance focused. That said, I do not prefer driving the E90. The 2 Series suspension is definitely softer, but the handling still manages to be excellent. The one thing I prefer on the E90 is the steering feel when I push the car in the twisties. At low speeds, though, the E90's steering just feels unnecessarily heavy.

Obviously, my situation is different. My 328i is seven years old, and it feels it. You went up a bit in size, I went down more than a bit in size. You have 300+ HP, I have 230+ HP. So, not really the same, but I definitely feel like my overall enjoyment of my 2 Series is as high as I've experienced in a new car.
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      09-10-2014, 12:48 PM   #19
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Maybe it is stuck in "comfort mode"
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      09-10-2014, 01:35 PM   #20
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I just joined the forum - mainly because dmboone25, my office neighbor and friend posted this piece on our driving experiences yesterday; I wanted to comment as well.

It's interesting to read the comments responding to his post.

I'll introduce myself. I bought my 135i (which is a 2009 not a 2008) last summer from a Lexus dealer here in TX. I bought the car because previously I had a 2004 e46 M3 that I drove until the SMG pump failed and the repair cost wasn't something I was willing to consider at the time. I then went bimmerless for appx 9 months before I bought the 1er.

Honestly, the 1er is just OK. I really was trying to recapture - what I could of the e46 M3 (but I wanted to newer car).

I say this to say, I drive a 135i but I'm not loyal to it. I had buyer's remorse when I purchased it- and still do from time to time. It looks funny sometimes. Sometimes the N54 can feel laggy. Nothing like the s54 throttle response. But it's what I drive. And to top it off, some people in the office joke that I drive a girly car... (I admit the headlights don't help)

So when dmboone25 suggested the car swap - I was all for it. I think the 2er looks much better. And it probably is a better car. The seats where better, the styling is better, the ride is more comfortable... and if it were available when I decided to buy the 1er, I would've have passed on the 1.

But he's right, there is a definite difference in the feel of the 2 cars. The 1 feels "more raw" or "less refined" than the 2. It's true, the 1 enjoyed much less favorable press than did the 2. It's true on paper the performance #s of the 2 are better than the 1; the C&D numbers (which are always absurd) are repeatably better for the 2.

But we all also know the n54 is a bit variable in its true output. We know that drives vary between drivers. We were both surprised when the 1er pulled ever so slightly ahead of the 2er; and it was slight (plus we don't know what would've happened if we kept pushing). Many factors could be at play. But we both expected a different outcome. We expected the M235 to be the clear victor.

I will hook the Go-pro up and we will do some video comparisions... I suspect we will not solve anything, but I guarentee it'll be some damn good videos...
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      09-10-2014, 01:48 PM   #21
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As an ex-owner of a 2008 N54 135 with the M-sport package and as a current owner of a M235 (both 6MT), I have a hard time believing it is faster than the M235. For a period of two months I had both cars and drove them back to back and the M235 was clearly was faster.

I agree the M235 does feel more "squishy". The M235 with the adaptive suspension does feel "softer" but it also is does a better job at absorbing the "stutter" bumps while remaining flat around corners. The M235 suspension is a best of both worlds in this way, however you can also interpret this as being a bad thing because in day to day driving it feels less "engaging" compared to the 135 with its traditional suspension and shorter wheelbase making it a more "demanding" care to drive fast.
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      09-10-2014, 01:52 PM   #22
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2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by danimal View Post
Would be interesting to compare 5-60 rolling start times in Car and Driver between the 135is and M235i, but I don't think they've tested a 6MT for the M235i yet. Still, we at least know that the manual 135is did it in 5.2, and the automatic M235i did it in 5.1. Given that the automatic has more ratios and is known to be faster compared with the manual, I'd say the M235i probably is a hair slower.

I currently have an E90 328i w/ sport package and a 228i sport line (both manual) in my garage, and I can basically echo your sentiments that BMWs seem to be getting softer and less performance focused. That said, I do not prefer driving the E90. The 2 Series suspension is definitely softer, but the handling still manages to be excellent. The one thing I prefer on the E90 is the steering feel when I push the car in the twisties. At low speeds, though, the E90's steering just feels unnecessarily heavy.

Obviously, my situation is different. My 328i is seven years old, and it feels it. You went up a bit in size, I went down more than a bit in size. You have 300+ HP, I have 230+ HP. So, not really the same, but I definitely feel like my overall enjoyment of my 2 Series is as high as I've experienced in a new car.
Valuable insight if you ask me - if you look at my sig you can see I had two E92 328i and those were awesome cars in their own rights. Always felt underpowered to some extent, but definitely had the signature BMW "feel", especially in the way the steering provided feedback.

The thing to remember is that I didn't say or mean to imply that the M235 "lost" or was smoked in any way - but it was definitely slower. Different drivers, same roads...which doesn't even matter that much to me. My main gripe is that an older, less attractive 1er still feels more engsging and sporty to me. That was something I had forgotten until yesterday.

Perhaps remorse is the wrong way to explain it...but the M235 is definitely missing something that the N54 135 had.

Remember, I had an N54 135, but then I had an N55 135 before getting the 2er. I have never liked the N55. It doesn't feel as strong down low and doesn't seem to pull with the same urgency as the N54 did.

With that being said, I would like to compare at some higher speeds - the M235 has always felt very strong above 100 MPH...
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Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
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