[WWM3]

Originally Posted by kevlartoronto

no 2 series gran coupe? news flash Mr. BMW. I passed on buying a 3 series because it was too big. I was about to put my money down on a S3 until they dropped the ball by not offering a manual transmission. ugh.

Audi is still considering a 6MT for the S3 - one of the major car mags - I think it was C&D or maybe Edmunds- speculated that they will end up building it.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

the TT-RS was ONLY available with a manual transmission in the US.

gotta love the info level of dealerships

[aajami]

Why hasn't Scott chimed in yet?

[roundle]

This seems kind of nuts, especially after the success of the CLA in the US.

We all know that the A3 will do well as well.

So the entry level BMW is the X1/320i? Hmmmm.

[kaputt]

Originally Posted by WWM3

Audi is still considering a 6MT for the S3 - one of the major car mags - I think it was C&D or maybe Edmunds- speculated that they will end up building it.

Here's an article that talks about how Audi hasn't ruled out the 6MT for the US, but to not expect that to happen in the first model year.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/12/2...w-first-drive/

For me, the S3 would get a serious look if a manual was offered. Hard to beat 4 door practicality.

[pruettfan]

The CLA and A3 haven't proven to be a high demand or high profit proposition in the US so I can't say I blame BMW for not wanting to jump into a new and unproven category. I suspect they have done some of the engineering to ensure that they can do a gran coupe if and when the market conditions are right so I would not write it off all together. If the A3 and CLA are big hits I am sure we will see a 2 series gran coupe in the US.

[pruettfan]

Originally Posted by roundle

This seems kind of nuts, especially after the success of the CLA in the US.

We all know that the A3 will do well as well.

So the entry level BMW is the X1/320i? Hmmmm.

The CLA has sold well initially but we will see if demand holds in a year, the other issue is we really don't know the profit margin they are getting from the CLA. I know mercedes sees the CLA as a way to get customers to their brand earlier in their lives so they will buy higher margin cars in the future. For that reason I suspect they don't make much off the CLA.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

The CLA and A3 haven't proven to be a high demand or high profit proposition in the US so I can't say I blame BMW for not wanting to jump into a new and unproven category. I suspect they have done some of the engineering to ensure that they can do a gran coupe if and when the market conditions are right so I would not write it off all together. If the A3 and CLA are big hits I am sure we will see a 2 series gran coupe in the US.

The CLA is selling like crazy, MB sales were up 18% in December, while BMW was flat. The A3 isn't out yet and the CLA45 is just starting to trickle in. This is a market that BMW is going to lose major sales over the next 3-5 years with no competitive product.

[clbmw]

I'd like to see a small 4 door RWD with a boot (trunk) big enough to put dogs in with a wicked engine and awesome handling...

Oh yeah we already have one and they're about to spoil it with the 3rd generation moving to UKL.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Right, but that 335 sedan isn't an M performance model. Whether or not that is blasphemy or not, these two cars have different purposes, or they should at least. The M235 has some of that M magic, so a 335is sedan would be a better comparo, if there were such a thing. Or if there were a regular old 235 (which doesn't exist) in the lineup, one might expect to see it plopped between the 228i and the M235i...

I wouldn't think those that are waiting on an M235 (like me) would cross shop against the F30 335 (I didn't and wouldn't).

Similarly, if they made a M335, then you would see a nice uptick in price. Just an observation.

Yup. All gone quiet on the M performance model 3 and 4 series, last I heard was from Scott was mutterings of a diesel... But that was a long time ago

[Ramos]

Originally Posted by clbmw

I'd like to see a small 4 door RWD with a boot (trunk) big enough to put dogs in with a wicked engine and awesome handling...

Oh yeah we already have one and they're about to spoil it with the 3rd generation moving to UKL.

Dogs in the trunk? I hope you're joking but still it's a lousy joke.
You should be reported to the authorities for animal abuse.

[Hops128i]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Clearly the comments indicated by this BMW rep show they are still too afraid to really focus on a car that is below the almighty bread and butter 3 (now 3/4 series). Many dealers unwittingly attempt to step buyers from a 1 series to a 3 series sedan as opposed to simply selling a 1 series to a happy owner and then hoping that person moves upmarket or returns for their second BMW purchase. The ones that can afford a 3 series or fit a 3 series in their garage are ok.. but many customers leave and go to Infiniti (G35/G37) Mercedes (CL), or Lexus IS.

Yes, you describe me! Before i bought my one series, i got very close to buying a GTI, but decided to just test drive a 1 series before I did (even tough I thought the 1 series was a little ugly at the time). That changed my mind to the BMW, but as i shopped around, some sales people almost acted like the 1 series was a bad car, and strongly suggested I buy a 3 series.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by aajami

Why hasn't Scott chimed in yet?

Good question--especially since he created a thread entitled "2GC on fast track" to be completed ASAP....

[949]

hey guys, its all about greed. making the ole mooollaaaaaa.
it has nothing to do with what we need.

they create what makes the most profit. its how the world goes round.
he said it in the interview, this small sedan will take away from the 3 series. this isnt something new to them. when we actually see the cars on the lot, they are made years in advance with planning behind it. it isnt where they pull this shit out of their azz's.
they do try different things out but it doesnt always work. since they already made the 3 series already they have to stand behind their main money maker. the 2 series will just have a ton of buyers. buyers who will be moving from the 3 series over. imagine making something a tad bit cheaper but selling it for 10-15k less. cars are not that expensive to make, about 8-15k usd, depending on the materials used. (an employee who works at a car manufacturer actually told me this). cheaper brands will be on the lower end.

i do see the logic and dilemma they have.

remember, what they make the public will buy. they do have the brand and history.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by aajami

Why hasn't Scott chimed in yet?

When @SCOTT26 's predictions (insider info) are wrong, he does not chime in. In my case of V6, I was banned for wrong predictions.

I would not rule out the 2Series GranCoupé yet, but it really is not positive for it. It has been known before the 2 Series Coupé was revealed. If in two years nothing has changed (official info/prototypes) then there will be no this car. Before 1 Series E87 facelift, there was also a 1 Series Sedan (E8X) in prototype, but it was cancelled.

I also do not see when could this car hit the market as next cars are (more or less in order) X4, 2 Series ActiveTourer, X6, X3 LCI, X1, 3 Series LCI, 7 Series, etc... not to forget all the other FWD cars, including that below the 1 Series.

I seems like BMW has other cash cow priorities. They would be too stupid to build a car many want to by and not be ripped off.

Originally Posted by 949

hey guys, its all about greed. making the ole mooollaaaaaa.
it has nothing to do with what we need.

they create what makes the most profit. its how the world goes round.
he said it in the interview, this small sedan will take away from the 3 series. this isnt something new to them. when we actually see the cars on the lot, they are made years in advance with planning behind it. it isnt where they pull this shit out of their azz's.
they do try different things out but it doesnt always work. since they already made the 3 series already they have to stand behind their main money maker. the 2 series will just have a ton of buyers. buyers who will be moving from the 3 series over. imagine making something a tad bit cheaper but selling it for 10-15k less. cars are not that expensive to make, about 8-15k usd, depending on the materials used. (an employee who works at a car manufacturer actually told me this). cheaper brands will be on the lower end.

i do see the logic and dilemma they have.

remember, what they make the public will buy. they do have the brand and history.

Alfa Romeo also has the brand and history, but FIAT killed Alfa Romeo. They wanted to do with Alfa the same as BMW is doing now, obviously those Italian directors and managers were not that good as BMW at doing business.

[thomps]

I've read a lot of this thread, and I agree with much of the sentiment, from another enthusiast's perspective. I too would love to see a 2GC hit the market and sell like hotcakes.

But I have to ask: aren't we sort of painting with broad strokes here? We're all disappointed, but how much of the population do we make up? Is the average consumer going to notice the absence of a 2GC? Or is the average consumer going to look at a 3-series and love the fact that they can stretch out inside of it, and not care whether it's a boat?

We all say: "How could BMW leave that segment empty? They could come in and dominate by offering something in CLA/A3 compact 4-door packaging with the added benefit of RWD!" But we're all discerning consumers- we recognize the value of a small, sporty RWD sedan. Meanwhile, the average consumer doesn't care. They don't care that the AWD system in the CLA/A3 is FWD biased. They don't see RWD as the holy grail; in fact they'd probably prefer something they can drive all year long. We know the 2GC would be a great car because it would give us 4-doors while correcting everything that's wrong with the 3-series; they probably don't see anything wrong with the 3-series.

The best argument is price, IMO, because I think that's all the average consumer cares about. We might think no one would cross-shop the CLA and the 3-series because one's sporty and compact and the other one has become a boat. But I'd be willing to bet that if someone optioned out a CLA into 3-series territory, they'd walk over to BMW before making the plunge, and they'd seriously contemplating getting a 3-series, because they view the added space as a benefit and they don't care whether the electronic steering feels "lifeless" or whether it plows in the corners or what the 0-60 time is. They wouldn't appreciate the option of a 2GC because they wouldn't appreciate the tradeoff between size and performance. They just care what it's going to cost.

If BMW doesn't think it could make a 2GC that is both competitive with CLA/A3 pricing and at the same time wouldn't offset its own justification by cannibalizing current 3-series sales, then the car doesn't make sense. It's a sad reality, but if you want a car company that exists to solely to please the enthusiasts, look elsewhere. I don't know if you'll find one.

Final note: I also don't think this news necessarily means they won't do a 2GC. I think we should relax.

EDIT: apologies, people have posted saying pretty much the exact same thing since the time I started writing this.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Good question--especially since he created a thread entitled "2GC on fast track" to be completed ASAP....

Scott is out to lunch reading this on his iPad

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Scott is out to lunch reading this on his iPad

conveniently....

[Carnook]

Originally Posted by PK2348

Speaking to Wards Auto, Dr. Herbert Diess [BMW board member] said the company sees little need for a sedan smaller than the 3-Series in the United States. He went on to say he sees a “high risk of substitution” where customers would buy the smaller car - presumably the 1-Series sedan or 2-Series Gran Coupe - instead of a more expensive model like the 3-Series.

"Our core philosophy is to never fear cannibalization. If we don’t do it, someone else will."

Tim Cook

[949]

Originally Posted by Levi

When SCOTT's predictions (insider info) are wrong, he does not chime in. In my case of V6, I was banned for wrong predictions.

I would not rule out the 2Series GranCoupé yet, but it really is not positive for it. It has been known before the 2 Series Coupé was revealed. If in two years nothing has changed (official info/prototypes) then there will be no this car. Before 1 Series E87 facelift, there was also a 1 Series Sedan (E8X) in prototype, but it was cancelled.

I also do not see when could this car hit the market as next cars are (more or less in order) X4, 2 Series ActiveTourer, X6, X3 LCI, X1, 3 Series LCI, 7 Series, etc... not to forget all the other FWD cars, including that below the 1 Series.

I seems like BMW has other cash cow priorities. They would be too stupid to build a car many want to by and not be ripped off.




Alfa Romeo also has the brand and history, but FIAT killed Alfa Romeo. They wanted to do with Alfa the same as BMW is doing now, obviously those Italian directors and managers were not that good as BMW at doing business.

the only thing i would disagree is that bmw is everywhere. alfa is not everywhere. so that technique would not apply to alfa. that might be why it did work. heck, i dont even know what an alfa looks like.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Dogs in the trunk? I hope you're joking but still it's a lousy joke.
You should be reported to the authorities for animal abuse.

I meant the hatchback variety... Would never put them in an enclosed boot, sorry for the confusion.

[Ramos]

Originally Posted by clbmw

I meant the hatchback variety... Would never put them in an enclosed boot, sorry for the confusion.

Ok sorry I jumped on your comment then !