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      03-14-2018, 10:13 PM   #1
BillD1953
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2019 M2 Gran Coupe

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...val-rs3-saloon


Europe only? Or?
6MT offered in the states?......if so I can replace my 2016 228i 6MT RWD base coupe that I just traded for an M40i.......with the new 2 series gran coupe 4 door offered in 6MT or auto.

Nice
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      03-16-2018, 08:27 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD1953 View Post
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...val-rs3-saloon


Europe only? Or?
6MT offered in the states?......if so I can replace my 2016 228i 6MT RWD base coupe that I just traded for an M40i.......with the new 2 series gran coupe 4 door offered in 6MT or auto.

Nice
i don’t know if this is correct, I’m pretty sure based on spy shots and information shared that the 2GC will be based on the FWD UKL platform, thus meaning the article makes no sense.
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      03-16-2018, 12:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
i don’t know if this is correct, I’m pretty sure based on spy shots and information shared that the 2GC will be based on the FWD UKL platform, thus meaning the article makes no sense.
The mule in the photos is not the 2 Series with UKL that was built expressly for the Chinese market. That is a different car ...

... and if they make that car an ///M, I will never, ever even consider a BMW performance car again. Good lord that thing is fugly. Reminds me of a cross between a Buick Regal and a second-gen Lexus GS.
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      03-16-2018, 03:17 PM   #4
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Yes, I absolutely would never consider a car made by any manufacturer who ever made a car that I wouldn't want. Accordingly I will never consider a GM car because a million years ago they built the Aztec, and VW/Porsche/Audi are right out because of the Microbus, which looks like a loaf of wonder bread, and of course BMW has that stupid-looking i3 thing.

Or, wait, maybe I'll pick cars based on what they are, not based on what some other car is. Maybe that makes more sense. Glad I thought of that.
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      03-16-2018, 03:35 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Ron Jeffries View Post
Yes, I absolutely would never consider a car made by any manufacturer who ever made a car that I wouldn't want. Accordingly I will never consider a GM car because a million years ago they built the Aztec, and VW/Porsche/Audi are right out because of the Microbus, which looks like a loaf of wonder bread, and of course BMW has that stupid-looking i3 thing.

Or, wait, maybe I'll pick cars based on what they are, not based on what some other car is. Maybe that makes more sense. Glad I thought of that.
But GM never made an Aztek SS. And VW never commissioned a Karmann-Ghia Microbus R or somesuch.

My issue is with companies that 'hot-rod' almost every single model, whether that model warrants it or not. BMW is well on its way to doing just that for no other reason than to profit off of the ///M designation, which is so watered down at this point the average consumer doesn't know the difference between M Performance and full-on ///M.

IMHO, a 2er GC that has the shape shown in those photos, with the ///M treatment, would not look good at all -- and, for me, that would be the last straw because it would either
- effectively undercut the M3, or
- be so neutered to protect the M3 that it shouldn't be an ///M car in the first place.
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      03-16-2018, 07:36 PM   #6
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A four-door that small moves the B pillars too far forward, right in my line of sight. I hate the B pillar on the S3 / Golf R. Right in your face when you turn your head. One of the best things about the 2 are the coupe windows and great visibility they offer.

I'd rather get the euro 135 3-door wagon/hatchback. More usable room with the extended roof, and no where near as hump back ugly as this 2GC. This has the ungainly proportions of the 3GT.

If you really need four doors, you probably need a bigger car anyway.
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      03-18-2018, 12:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
i don’t know if this is correct, I’m pretty sure based on spy shots and information shared that the 2GC will be based on the FWD UKL platform, thus meaning the article makes no sense.
Indeed. The car in the pictures is clearly FWD and it is pretty much confirmed that the 2GC will be a UKL vehicle. Thus no I6 and most likely no true M version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
The mule in the photos is not the 2 Series with UKL that was built expressly for the Chinese market. That is a different car ...
You are thinking of the 1 series sedan. Not 2 series.
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      03-21-2018, 07:28 AM   #8
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How does it make sense to fractionate the market like this (slipping a whole new model in between the 2 and 3 series), yet they cry about 'excessive development and certification costs' as the reason why they won't sell lightweight track versions (and soon perhaps even manual transmissions). I think they would be better off to tweak a 3series so it is a little less expensive (perhaps even something that retains the sport-over-luxury ethos of the 2 series, since you aren't really getting much luxo in a 3 anyway).
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      03-21-2018, 07:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maynard View Post
How does it make sense to fractionate the market like this (slipping a whole new model in between the 2 and 3 series), yet they cry about 'excessive development and certification costs' as the reason why they won't sell lightweight track versions (and soon perhaps even manual transmissions). I think they would be better off to tweak a 3series so it is a little less expensive (perhaps even something that retains the sport-over-luxury ethos of the 2 series, since you aren't really getting much luxo in a 3 anyway).
I've argued this before but the entire lineup could do with a major rationalization. Just to pick on on obvious example - why do you need both the GTs and the even number sloped roof X models?
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      03-21-2018, 08:11 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
I've argued this before but the entire lineup could do with a major rationalization. Just to pick on on obvious example - why do you need both the GTs and the even number sloped roof X models?
Can't recall the source, but I think some of this rationalization may be happening. With the advent of the 2 GC, supposedly the new 3/4 grows a bit, and the 4 GC will have sufficient rear legroom and cargo under the hatch, that the 3 GT will not be renewed.

P.S. Until those results are known, very happy to have a 3 GT now....great package for its purpose and every back seat passenger has been very comfortable, and cargo room is capacious....it's my "mini 5!"
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      03-21-2018, 08:40 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
I've argued this before but the entire lineup could do with a major rationalization. Just to pick on on obvious example - why do you need both the GTs and the even number sloped roof X models?
Can't recall the source, but I think some of this rationalization may be happening. With the advent of the 2 GC, supposedly the new 3/4 grows a bit, and the 4 GC will have sufficient rear legroom and cargo under the hatch, that the 3 GT will not be renewed.

P.S. Until those results are known, very happy to have a 3 GT now....great package for its purpose and every back seat passenger has been very comfortable, and cargo room is capacious....it's my "mini 5!"
I'd lobby to keep the GT and eliminate even number Xs but that will never happen. I'm in favor of anything that's as close to a car as possible versus trending towards SUV.

For what you need and are using it for that's one of the best things out there - until you get into stupid money.
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      03-21-2018, 01:50 PM   #12
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BMW has apparently figured out how to make a profit while turning out a fairly large number of low-volume variants.
Remember that they are in the business of making money first and cars second, like all major automotive companies.
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      03-28-2018, 01:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
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BMW has apparently figured out how to make a profit while turning out a fairly large number of low-volume variants.
Remember that they are in the business of making money first and cars second, like all major automotive companies.
Agree with this.

But as a customer im getting tired of all these BMW models
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      03-28-2018, 03:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Agree with this.

But as a customer im getting tired of all these BMW models
I don't see a problem with it, I think the choice is nice. Some people might want a 2 series, but also want some extra doors. Its the same reason I like the 4GC, ive had a few loaners, and its great because for one, its a hatch, two, I find the styling a bit better than the 3, so you trade off some rear door size practicality for looks and storage space vs a 3 series.

I would imagine with the 2 series GC, you basically add a bit more practicality to it. If its a hatch rear lid, would be even better.
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      03-28-2018, 03:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luftwaffe1O1 View Post
I don't see a problem with it, I think the choice is nice.
I think the problem comes when cars we liked are sacrificed on the altar of crossovers and CUVs and whatnot. For example would we rather have both the 6 GT and the X6 which as far as I am concerned serve 99% the same purpose, or pick one and make an admittedly much lower volume car like a Z4M Coupe?

Small sports sedans = good. Coupes = good. Convertibles, probably don't need so many, I'd argue keep the new Z and the 4-series (with a soft top) and kill the 2 which sits in the middle, even though I LOVE mine. Each level pick either GT or even number X w/ sloped roof.
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      03-31-2018, 08:55 AM   #16
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I like the look of the 4 series GC model and think of it as a sleeker 3 series, if they only made a M4 version.
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      03-31-2018, 10:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Agree with this.

But as a customer im getting tired of all these BMW models
I like having a lot of options to choose from. Gives the customer the opportunity to pick the car they truly want instead of settling for the closest thing available. Porsche for example has a relatively limited number of different vehicles but within each model you can pick between the base, S, GTS, turbo, turbo S, etc. I prefer that approach.
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      03-31-2018, 10:53 AM   #18
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I don't understand people who object to the proliferation of models on principle. What harm is this practice doing to you? If there are people who buy these models, BMW will continue to manufacture them. Does it bother you that VW and Audi models are built on identical platforms? Or does the apparent dilution of the purity of the BMW brand devalue the car that you drive?
Yes, I too would like to own bespoke shoes but I don't have $5000 lying around, so I wear Crocs at $50 a pair, which no bespoke shoemaker can duplicate.
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      03-31-2018, 03:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F22_Matt View Post
I like having a lot of options to choose from. Gives the customer the opportunity to pick the car they truly want instead of settling for the closest thing available. Porsche for example has a relatively limited number of different vehicles but within each model you can pick between the base, S, GTS, turbo, turbo S, etc. I prefer that approach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphomeman View Post
I don't understand people who object to the proliferation of models on principle. What harm is this practice doing to you? If there are people who buy these models, BMW will continue to manufacture them. Does it bother you that VW and Audi models are built on identical platforms? Or does the apparent dilution of the purity of the BMW brand devalue the car that you drive?
Yes, I too would like to own bespoke shoes but I don't have $5000 lying around, so I wear Crocs at $50 a pair, which no bespoke shoemaker can duplicate.
Most people that i know cant justify paying for a fully loaded 340 when you can get a base 320 that looks almost identical for half the price.
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      03-31-2018, 07:22 PM   #20
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Would be so great to have a 230i GC w/ the 8-speed AT as my DD replacement in next 1-2 years...

... IF it was on 2-series RWD platform like my m240i 6-speed, which is my weekend toy.

I will not be buying one, unfortunately, solely due to this reason. Still excited to see what it ends up looking like though.
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      03-31-2018, 08:42 PM   #21
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This will be as popular as the Honda Crosstour. I won't be as proud to own a 2 if this perverts the Series. Just fix and improve existing platforms. Not sure why we need yet another option.
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      03-31-2018, 08:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Not sure why we need yet another option.
4 door cars outsell 2 door cars. New 3 Series is getting larger and likely more expensive. Some may not like the execution (FWD), but the market position among CLA, A3, S40 makes a good business case.
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