[loudiamond15]

I've been on these forums for 3 months now (since I picked up my M235i) reading tons of threads on various subjects. In the last month I've really been reading a lot on tuning (never tuned any car I've owned). After pouring through countless "best tune", "what kind of tune should I get", and "here's my tune" threads, one thing really bothers me. The bottom line.

I see so many threads where the OP advertises the finished product, i.e. "This tune added xxx hp and xxx lb. ft. of torque and cost me $xxxx." But with each one of these posts I see that the bottom line performance increase seems almost absent or barely negligible at best. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the advertised 0-60 on a stock M235i 8 Speed AT is roughly 4.3-4.7 depending on which road test outlet you read. My personal testing is right on par (sea level with 93 octane premium petrol, no LC, 8 speed AT). Time and time again I read the final output numbers of these tune threads where the OP has spent a LOT of extra money to get essentially no increase in straight line performance. Forgive my ignorance here, but aside from the people who are tuning with tracking their car in mind, am I missing something here? Why spend all that money if it's not making your car faster?

[LimeRockM235]

can't tell if trolling or not

[loudiamond15]

Originally Posted by LimeRockM235

can't tell if trolling or not

Lol no I'm really not trolling I promise. As a person who obviously doesn't tune cars, I realize I might be totally oblivious, hence why I posed the question. It just seems so many of these tune threads end with saying "I am 0-60 in 4.5 now" and I'm always like, isn't that what a stock M235i does anyway?

[Luminous]

0-60 in 3.6s

[Zooks527]

You see a lot of 0-60 reports because everyone can come up with a place where they can go 0-60 and not risk arrest, as opposed to seeing how long it takes to run 0-130 or to run a quarter mile flat out.

Simplistically, straight line 0-60 is a function of how much power you can get down to the ground through the wheels. With a RWD M235i, you're likely already at the limit, which is why the stock M235xi is faster to 60 than a stock M235i, despite the M235xi being heavier. At that point, having all 4 wheels going around gets the xDrive car up to speed quicker because it's not spinning its wheels at launch.

Adding HP to an M235xi results in some very fast times (see the post immediately above). Adding more HP to an M235i adds more rubber to the starting line.

Where a tune benefits the RWD car is once it's off the line and trying to go faster. At that point, raw tire adhesion is less of an issue, and you're working with overcoming drag and other consequences of speed. Look to 1/4 mile times of a stock vs. a tuned M235i to see the effect.

[pz619]

I think your point is valid. For RWD I don't think you'll see much improvement from a 0-60 perspective as you'll be traction limited. Where you are more likely to see improvements are from rolling starts and quarter mile. This is exactly the reason I'm sticking with stage 1 solutions. I don't exactly need/do highway pulls.

[mike@x-ph.com]

0 - 60 is not an accurate measurement since traction plays a bigger factor than power
put some drag radials and then test your 0 - 60 stock vs tuned
with stock tires most of your performance increase will be on third gear since traction is not an issue

[loudiamond15]

Thank you for the education! Makes perfect sense when explained this way. I only referenced 0-60 times as a quantifiable performance measurement since that's the only result every day drivers will get to experience (and even then, like Zooks stated above, not many can do so without risking John Q. Law interfering with the fun). I guess I just feel that unless I saw results I could use in every day driving, was a weekend track warrior, or was able to take my whip out to a private drag strip to reap the full benefits of my investment, why bother?

P.S. Luminous, now I CAN get with that tune. I won't ask what you spent, but 3.6 is pretty insane for this car IMO.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by loudiamond15

Thank you for the education! Makes perfect sense when explained this way. I only referenced 0-60 times as a quantifiable performance measurement since that's the only result every day drivers will get to experience (and even then, like Zooks stated above, not many can do so without risking John Q. Law interfering with the fun). I guess I just feel that unless I saw results I could use in every day driving, was a weekend track warrior, or was able to take my whip out to a private drag strip to reap the full benefits of my investment, why bother?

P.S. Luminous, now I CAN get with that tune. I won't ask what you spent, but 3.6 is pretty insane for this car IMO.

Go WOT starting from 20-30 mph and you will know why people tune their cars

Huge difference between a tune car and a stock one

[loudiamond15]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Go WOT starting from 20-30 mph and you will know why people tune their cars

Huge difference between a tune car and a stock one

Haha fair enough! I have certainly put the pedal to the floor a time or two while cruising at around 25-30 mph in 2nd (sometimes 3rd if I'm not paying attention) gear and felt it would be nice to have more pull from there. Because let's be honest, unless you're just yearning for 5-0 to write you up a nice little pink slip, flooring it from a stoplight probably isn't the smartest course of action. I think I'll just stick to stock until I'm no longer a noob driver. But then again, I may always be a noob driver so I guess we'll see

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by loudiamond15

Haha fair enough! I have certainly put the pedal to the floor a time or two while cruising at around 25-30 mph in 2nd (sometimes 3rd if I'm not paying attention) gear and felt it would be nice to have more pull from there. Because let's be honest, unless you're just yearning for 5-0 to write you up a nice little pink slip, flooring it from a stoplight probably isn't the smartest course of action. I think I'll just stick to stock until I'm no longer a noob driver. But then again, I may always be a noob driver so I guess we'll see

Agree with the fact that you should not add more power until you are comfortable with stock power
Once you feel you are at this stage, let me know

[loudiamond15]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Agree with the fact that you should not add more power until you are comfortable with stock power
Once you feel you are at this stage, let me know

Well thanks Mike! Tuning is far off in the distance for me if ever, but at least if I do consider it I'll know where to start. I've been pretty comfortable with every RWD car I've owned and learned how to have fun with them without going overboard (I owned an '06 IS350, '09 G37, '12 G37, and '13 Gen Coupe 3.8), but none them had the torque the 235i has, so the learning curve wasn't quite as steep. Right now the thought of adding even more is kind of scary TBH. Plus, I don't ever want to wind up like this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miA5qj5ergM

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by loudiamond15

Well thanks Mike! Tuning is far off in the distance for me if ever, but at least if I do consider it I'll know where to start. I've been pretty comfortable with every RWD car I've owned and learned how to have fun with them without going overboard (I owned an '06 IS350, '09 G37, '12 G37, and '13 Gen Coupe 3.8), but none them had the torque the 235i has, so the learning curve wasn't quite as steep. Right now the thought of adding even more is kind of scary TBH. Plus, I don't ever want to wind up like this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miA5qj5ergM

He had 1psi more on one of the tires....
as long as you have them even you should be good

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

All these tunes do yield faster cars and compared to an N/A car the difference is a significant. Trust me I've tuned other N/A platforms and it seems like almost every bolt on did nothing alone. When combined together you eventually felt something or saw the difference going against your friends.

At least with these turbo platforms, 40-60WHP is a big difference and it doesn't change straight line speed and performance.

Although the tune is not really to blame eitherway, you can only get so much power safely out of the turbo's and relevant octane.

[pz619]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

He had 1psi more on one of the tires....
as long as you have them even you should be good

PSA: Digital gauges saves lives.

[kdog26372]

Just took tune off my car as heading in for service. I can tell you after driving with a tune for the last 10k miles and now 2 days without the tune, the difference is major. The car feels sluggish and just not very fast now in stock form. I would agree with what others have posted; if you have RWD and add a tune 0-60 won't change much on stock tires as you'll be fighting for traction, highway pulls and others that aren't from a dead stop will be greatly improved. My xdrive with and without tune has little to no traction issues and just goes from a stop; in colder weather it will spinout a bit, but nothing major. My 3 wire tune took 15 minutes to uninstall, I could do the 2 wire in 5 minutes.

[M235Montreal]

Originally Posted by kdog26372

Just took tune off my car as heading in for service. I can tell you after driving with a tune for the last 10k miles and now 2 days without the tune, the difference is major. The car feels sluggish and just not very fast now in stock form. I would agree with what others have posted; if you have RWD and add a tune 0-60 won't change much on stock tires as you'll be fighting for traction, highway pulls and others that aren't from a dead stop will be greatly improved. My xdrive with and without tune has little to no traction issues and just goes from a stop; in colder weather it will spinout a bit, but nothing major. My 3 wire tune took 15 minutes to uninstall, I could do the 2 wire in 5 minutes.

JB4 or AA8 ?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by kdog26372

Just took tune off my car as heading in for service. I can tell you after driving with a tune for the last 10k miles and now 2 days without the tune, the difference is major. The car feels sluggish and just not very fast now in stock form. I would agree with what others have posted; if you have RWD and add a tune 0-60 won't change much on stock tires as you'll be fighting for traction, highway pulls and others that aren't from a dead stop will be greatly improved. My xdrive with and without tune has little to no traction issues and just goes from a stop; in colder weather it will spinout a bit, but nothing major. My 3 wire tune took 15 minutes to uninstall, I could do the 2 wire in 5 minutes.

90% have RWD and we notice a huge difference with the tune.
If anyone is having traction issues they can lower boost on 1st and second gear using the JB4

[kdog26372]

Originally Posted by M235Montreal

JB4 or AA8 ?

AA8

[M235Montreal]

Originally Posted by kdog26372

AA8

and How would u rate it on 10 Brother ??? and any downsides to it or are u 100% satisfied ?

[kdog26372]

Originally Posted by M235Montreal

and How would u rate it on 10 Brother ??? and any downsides to it or are u 100% satisfied ?

I have tried 3 tunes. JB stage 1, RaceChip Ultimate and now AA8. Out of the 3 this is the best of that bunch and also priced a bit lower than the RC Ultimate, but above the JB Stage 1. Very easy to install and mounts nicely to a bolt under a cover in the engine bay so clean/simple install once you know how the clips come apart.

Only other mod I have is catted hi-flow downpipe. Out of 10 I'd rate it a 7. I think it's a bit aggressive for 93 octane as I've added 2 gallons of E85 and the thing is noticeably faster which tells me it may be setup a little too high for pump gas. But, it is easily adjustable with a turn dial on the outside of the box so easy enough to adjust to your specific car and octane limits.

I would say for stock or close to stock cars that won't be running E85 mixes or going catless it's my favorite option. The best 1/4 mile times are going to be those that have access to E85 and are using the stage 2 JB4 or maybe custom flash tune. I've never installed the JB4 stage 2, but it appears more involved with routing wires into the port inside the car and tricky access to E85 sensor from what I've read up; but should still be an under 45 minute install vs. 5-10 minutes for the stage 1 and 1.5 tunes. All better than stock for sure. Comes down to budget and time/complexity of install, but something for almost everyone.

[M235Montreal]

Originally Posted by kdog26372

I have tried 3 tunes. JB stage 1, RaceChip Ultimate and now AA8. Out of the 3 this is the best of that bunch and also priced a bit lower than the RC Ultimate, but above the JB Stage 1. Very easy to install and mounts nicely to a bolt under a cover in the engine bay so clean/simple install once you know how the clips come apart.

Only other mod I have is catted hi-flow downpipe. Out of 10 I'd rate it a 7. I think it's a bit aggressive for 93 octane as I've added 2 gallons of E85 and the thing is noticeably faster which tells me it may be setup a little too high for pump gas. But, it is easily adjustable with a turn dial on the outside of the box so easy enough to adjust to your specific car and octane limits.

I would say for stock or close to stock cars that won't be running E85 mixes or going catless it's my favorite option. The best 1/4 mile times are going to be those that have access to E85 and are using the stage 2 JB4 or maybe custom flash tune. I've never installed the JB4 stage 2, but it appears more involved with routing wires into the port inside the car and tricky access to E85 sensor from what I've read up; but should still be an under 45 minute install vs. 5-10 minutes for the stage 1 and 1.5 tunes. All better than stock for sure. Comes down to budget and time/complexity of install, but something for almost everyone.

thanks kindly for the review bro