THE LARGEST BMW 2-SERIES FORUM ON THE PLANET
2Addicts
2Addicts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics Wheels and Tires -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack Tires: similar performance to PSS but longer lasting?

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-14-2017, 10:13 AM   #23
SteveInfante
NewFinishColumbia/detailer
SteveInfante's Avatar
United_States
604
Rep
2,096
Posts

Drives: 2015 F31 xDrive
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Columbia, SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by icycoldd View Post
I’m being told by tire kingdom that the cause of such wear would be the camber induced on the car after the h and r springs were installed and aligned. Of course, I have no proof that the tires were already wearing badly before springs. I can only hope the camber can be corrected so that I don’t go through the tires so fast on the springs. I don’t recall reading about accelerated tire wear on h and r springs on these forums.
They just don't want to warranty the tires and used the springs as an excuse. #tirekingdomstandardpolicy
__________________
328 F31 xDrive/OSM/Venetian Luxury Line/Cold Weather/Premium/Driving Assist/Nav/Tech "Golden Goose"
78' Honda CB400A project
http://www.instagram.com/steve_inf31
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2017, 10:14 AM   #24
Anthony235
Lieutenant Colonel
Anthony235's Avatar
United_States
715
Rep
1,541
Posts

Drives: m235i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: OC, Ca

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2015 BMW  [0.00]
If you think you're getting unusual wear then check your alignment with special attention to your toe settings.
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2017, 11:36 AM   #25
XutvJet
Major General
5488
Rep
5,336
Posts

Drives: 2011 Cayman Base, 2016 M235
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kansas City

iTrader: (-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony235 View Post
If you think you're getting unusual wear then check your alignment with special attention to your toe settings.

^This. You need to get the camber and toe as close to stock spec as you can. If you're running a more aggressive setup, you'll burn through tires at a much quicker rate. For example, late model 911 and midengine Porsches run pretty aggressive rear suspension settings. It lends itself well to handling, but it's not uncommon for those cars to wear out the rear tires in 10K-15K whereas the fronts last twice as long.
__________________
The forest was shrinking, but the Trees kept voting for the Axe, for the Axe was clever and convinced the Trees that because his handle was made of wood, he was one of them.
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2017, 12:55 PM   #26
overcoil
Major General
3069
Rep
5,577
Posts

Drives: M235i 6spd
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
^This. You need to get the camber and toe as close to stock spec as you can. If you're running a more aggressive setup, you'll burn through tires at a much quicker rate. For example, late model 911 and midengine Porsches run pretty aggressive rear suspension settings. It lends itself well to handling, but it's not uncommon for those cars to wear out the rear tires in 10K-15K whereas the fronts last twice as long.
Try wearing out in 6K miles - 911's are dastardly
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2017, 01:11 PM   #27
pikcachu
Major General
pikcachu's Avatar
1398
Rep
5,262
Posts

Drives: M235i (F22 Red angel)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: undisclosed

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by icycoldd View Post
I’m being told by tire kingdom that the cause of such wear would be the camber induced on the car after the h and r springs were installed and aligned. Of course, I have no proof that the tires were already wearing badly before springs. I can only hope the camber can be corrected so that I don’t go through the tires so fast on the springs. I don’t recall reading about accelerated tire wear on h and r springs on these forums.
How does a spring changes camber??? sounds like BS to me.... also if it was because of camber you will wear the inside more, but you said they worn evenly...

Camber is fixed on the front so you can't adjust it unless you put camber plates or change the control arms
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2017, 01:48 PM   #28
aerobod
Car Geek
aerobod's Avatar
3578
Rep
3,555
Posts

Drives: Caterham R500, M2-G87, Macan S
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
How does a spring changes camber??? sounds like BS to me.... also if it was because of camber you will wear the inside more, but you said they worn evenly...

Camber is fixed on the front so you can't adjust it unless you put camber plates or change the control arms
Camber at stock ride height is fixed, but as the suspension is compressed or the springs are shortened, camber should increase (otherwise grip under cornering will drop off rapidly), the new ride height will either cause more camber induced tyre wear, or camber needs to be reduced at that ride height to alleviate the wear.
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2017, 03:18 PM   #29
pikcachu
Major General
pikcachu's Avatar
1398
Rep
5,262
Posts

Drives: M235i (F22 Red angel)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: undisclosed

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerobod View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
How does a spring changes camber??? sounds like BS to me.... also if it was because of camber you will wear the inside more, but you said they worn evenly...

Camber is fixed on the front so you can't adjust it unless you put camber plates or change the control arms
Camber at stock ride height is fixed, but as the suspension is compressed or the springs are shortened, camber should increase (otherwise grip under cornering will drop off rapidly), the new ride height will either cause more camber induced tyre wear, or camber needs to be reduced at that ride height to alleviate the wear.
I see. Wonder what about of camber could it add
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2017, 03:55 PM   #30
overcoil
Major General
3069
Rep
5,577
Posts

Drives: M235i 6spd
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (0)

But what about cars with adjustable ride height suspensions like many SUV's have sport cars that drop for increased highway speeds - doubt their camber's change

Last edited by overcoil; 12-14-2017 at 04:01 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2017, 11:32 PM   #31
aerobod
Car Geek
aerobod's Avatar
3578
Rep
3,555
Posts

Drives: Caterham R500, M2-G87, Macan S
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
But what about cars with adjustable ride height suspensions like many SUV's have sport cars that drop for increased highway speeds - doubt their camber's change
Any wishbone or macpherson strut suspension will change camber at different ride heights. The lower arm needs to push the bottom of the wheel out slightly during suspension compression, as it can’t keep a constant track as it rotates and you don’t want it switching from negative to positive camber or having a high roll centre (which will be the case if the lower arm is too high at the outside pivot compared with the inside pivot).

Many SUVs will have positive camber (with low cornering grip) at higher ride heights. For fixed camber you need solid axles (normally zero camber) or semi-independent de-Dion rear suspension. Trailing arm suspensions will have less camber change, but are compromised in other ways.

Active suspensions with zero or artificial opposite roll can have little camber change, but the feel of the car seems to be weird and non-intuitive, so I don’t know of any sporting car that will counteract natural roll completely.
Appreciate 0
      12-16-2017, 01:06 AM   #32
john16443
First Lieutenant
47
Rep
370
Posts

Drives: 2017 M240i
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ramona, CA

iTrader: (4)

@B58togo - Presume you mounted your 255/35/18 on your 18X8" rear wheel??
Appreciate 0
      12-16-2017, 09:45 PM   #33
B58togo
Major
806
Rep
1,367
Posts

Drives: M240i
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by john16443 View Post
@B58togo - Presume you mounted your 255/35/18 on your 18X8" rear wheel??
No, they're going on my 18x9.5 Apex EC-7's. I can't get over how much wider they are than the 245's. Way more than 10mm.
__________________
2017 M240i/ ZF8 Pure Drivetrain Solutions Stage 1 & torque converter/xHP/ Pure 800 cast/ DS2/ E40 Doug Newton tuned/ ER catless DP/ Remus axle back/ BMS intake/ FTP CP/ M Performance LSD
Appreciate 0
      12-16-2017, 09:54 PM   #34
john16443
First Lieutenant
47
Rep
370
Posts

Drives: 2017 M240i
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ramona, CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by B58togo View Post
No, they're going on my 18x9.5 Apex EC-7's. I can't get over how much wider they are than the 245's. Way more than 10mm.
Got it, thanks!
Appreciate 0
      12-23-2017, 02:24 PM   #35
Maynard
Colonel
United_States
3805
Rep
2,860
Posts

Drives: 228iX & M2C
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Upstate NY

iTrader: (1)

You should check details before opting for a tire w/better warranty, since I think most of them won't warranty if you can't rotate (like our staggered setups) or they cut it in half. As noted above, toe setting is also crucial, can get knocked out of spec by potholes.

And I'm seriously considering Conti's - several reviews note slight improvement in wet handling/braking, which is more crucial to me than a little bit more grip in the dry. The last gen Conti DW's I had wore very well, but they weren't on a Mazda 6 so not working nearly as hard.
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2017, 11:26 PM   #36
TajoMan
Lieutenant
TajoMan's Avatar
174
Rep
400
Posts

Drives: M240 xdrive, X3M40i
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
well basically cause it has almost the same performance... g-force , stopping distance but it lasts more... and has 45k warranty instead of 30k

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=230
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=218
Actually, 0.5 sec difference in 30 sec course is very noticeable.
Also the 5 ft difference in stopping distance.

That's about right amount of performance difference between UHP all season and Max performance summer.

Extreme performance summer is about same amount better than Max performance summer. (1 sec faster in 60 sec course)
Appreciate 0
      12-30-2017, 10:47 PM   #37
2msport
Captain
United_States
204
Rep
757
Posts

Drives: '14 228 MT
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NY

iTrader: (1)

I recently moved to NY from CA and I currently have PSSs. With the obvious weather change I'm trying to decide between PS A/S 3+ and DWS 06. Opinions welcome.
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2017, 05:40 AM   #38
overcoil
Major General
3069
Rep
5,577
Posts

Drives: M235i 6spd
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2msport View Post
I recently moved to NY from CA and I currently have PSSs. With the obvious weather change I'm trying to decide between PS A/S 3+ and DWS 06. Opinions welcome.
I have A/S 3+ and they are very good in the summer and none of the issues that summer compounds give u in the winter. They are quiet, long lasting / durable. And I don't recall the A/S really feeling any different in the steering. I do however think in the summer in the wet the Michelin summer compound has grip in corners at speed the A/S doesn't have - and I think the summer compound do have an overall feel that makes the car more awesome during the warm months.
Appreciate 2
2msport204.00
Tpeterson156.50
      12-31-2017, 09:49 AM   #39
2msport
Captain
United_States
204
Rep
757
Posts

Drives: '14 228 MT
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NY

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
I have A/S 3+ and they are very good in the summer and none of the issues that summer compounds give u in the winter. They are quiet, long lasting / durable. And I don't recall the A/S really feeling any different in the steering. I do however think in the summer in the wet the Michelin summer compound has grip in corners at speed the A/S doesn't have - and I think the summer compound do have an overall feel that makes the car more awesome during the warm months.
Much appreciated. Any idea how they do in snow?
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2017, 10:48 AM   #40
overcoil
Major General
3069
Rep
5,577
Posts

Drives: M235i 6spd
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2msport View Post
Much appreciated. Any idea how they do in snow?
my experience was that brand new Michelin summer compound with maximum tread depth, if the driver were smooth and didn't have to deal with steep ascents or descents - you could get somewhere in the snow. Start to add wear/reduced tread depth and it got real sketchy real fast on ice and snow.

The Michelin A/S-3 for one thing the tread wear is not as rapid as the Summer style so that gives you more months of capable driving.

Obviously the ground height of the car is a limiting factor.

My other car is an AWD Honda HR-V and it's just way faster and way easier too drive on ice and snow.
Appreciate 1
2msport204.00
      12-31-2017, 11:21 AM   #41
2msport
Captain
United_States
204
Rep
757
Posts

Drives: '14 228 MT
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NY

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
my experience was that brand new Michelin summer compound with maximum tread depth, if the driver were smooth and didn't have to deal with steep ascents or descents - you could get somewhere in the snow. Start to add wear/reduced tread depth and it got real sketchy real fast on ice and snow.

The Michelin A/S-3 for one thing the tread wear is not as rapid as the Summer style so that gives you more months of capable driving.

Obviously the ground height of the car is a limiting factor.

My other car is an AWD Honda HR-V and it's just way faster and way easier too drive on ice and snow.
My thoughts exactly on summer tires (DW & others) in the snow. I've been able to get around with smooth careful driving when others said not possible. But it was more of in a pinch and not something I want to chance or deal with every day. Hence the search for a more appropriate tire. Thanks
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2017, 06:06 PM   #42
aaaaah
Lieutenant
354
Rep
407
Posts

Drives: Nuggets
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: AU

iTrader: (0)

Best to run snow tyres if you get a decent amount of it though. A full set with wheels and tyres is not that expensive from TireRack and it's more than satisfying going past someone struggling with all seasons in a stereotypical, not sensible for the snow car like the F22.
Appreciate 1
x233284.00
      12-31-2017, 07:56 PM   #43
2msport
Captain
United_States
204
Rep
757
Posts

Drives: '14 228 MT
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NY

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately there's no place to store a seperate set. Otherwise I would. I ordered the A/S 3+
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2018, 12:41 PM   #44
TajoMan
Lieutenant
TajoMan's Avatar
174
Rep
400
Posts

Drives: M240 xdrive, X3M40i
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2msport View Post
My thoughts exactly on summer tires (DW & others) in the snow. I've been able to get around with smooth careful driving when others said not possible. But it was more of in a pinch and not something I want to chance or deal with every day. Hence the search for a more appropriate tire. Thanks
I would not drive summer tire in the snow for sure.
(done that with my 07 GTI with Potenze re050, I drove from Urbana to Chicago in snow storm. Only reason I made it in one piece was that I was super lucky.)

It does not matter of being careful or moving slow. It just does not move in the direction where you want to go at any speed.

With all season, you can drive safely at 20 mph or so. At least it moves to the direction where you pointing at that speed.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:39 PM.




2addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST