[raleedy]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Go to your local AAA office and get an International Driver's Permit. They'll take your photo and hand you a folded white document. That's it, with a few bucks of cost.

All you need is a US driver's license. But it qualifies you in the class of the least trained and most ignorant drivers on the road in Western Europe.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by raleedy

All you need is a US driver's license. But it qualifies you in the class of the least trained and most ignorant drivers on the road in Western Europe.

Test driving a car is a huge pain in the ass with just your US drivers license. Bring your passport at least but the international license is better. I'd bring everything with me just to be safe.

[Y0tsuya]

Originally Posted by raleedy

All you need is a US driver's license. But it qualifies you in the class of the least trained and most ignorant drivers on the road in Western Europe.

Well don't do it unless you already have a lot of driving experience. Even then I do sometimes feel like an idiot driving there, due to unfamiliarity with signage. And boy do they have a lot of signs. I've had some close calls but came out relatively unscathed.

But still it's no big deal. My company have offices in Asia and Europe and our colleagues often come to the US and we'd rent cars for them to tool around town. We also send people there on business trips and they'd rent cars to visit customers.

[wtfbrah]

I think the Autobahn drive would be a shitload of fun... But might also make me feel like I'm never actually using my car to it's full capabilities when I take it back to the US, and I'll be super jealous of everyone living near the Autobahn.

[siwo]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

I'm seeing a youthful trend here, of which I'm very much involved in.

I call it the "YOLO trend". I also see way too many old farts driving around in their FIRST sports car. They spent their whole life driving shit boxes and "investing" in retirement, or maybe just didn't have the cash flow, who knows.

My disease actually started when I was 16-20 and building high power FWD turbo drag cars of which I had no monthly payments or high insurance rates. After blowing up engines and spending thousands on mods I gave up the tuner approach. Then went into leasing new performance oriented cars that would give me satisfaction to the point where full tear down builds aren't necessary and I could do minor bolt-ons throughout ownership to be satisfied. When I told family/friends about my next approach to cars, everyone said "that's SO expensive", or "put the money into a house". The best, "you're going to spend $40k on a VW, or $60k on an Audi? YES! Okay, so I'm going to sacrifice everything I've ever wanted to own a house in my 20's? I DON'T think so lol. I still ended up with a condo at 25, and a brand new GTI at the time, thought I did pretty well for someone who "wasn't doing it right". Now I always make sure I'm happy with what I'm driving before I plan on another big commitment.

Now recently 30, with what I feel is a decent stable of rewarding vehicles to own, I have time to focus on what I should be, getting married, starting a family, and buying our second property to facilitate the growing family. BTW, I'll have both cars paid for before we have kids. Who's in a better month to month financial situation now?

I wouldn't want to be that guy who had to sell his "baby" to make room for a caravan. My way, it's paid for and it isn't going anywhere. Dad's gotta have his cake and eat it, too

Good thread - D

You nailed it with the YOLO and the gotta have his cake and eat it, too. I only live once, I'm not going to wait until it's too late. My late father bought his 2015 Corvette brand spanking new just 6 month prior to his unexpected passing and with that ordeal I learn to look at life differently. If I can afford things and still manage the other things in life, such as family, kids and my home etc then why not? I have a 4 year old daughter and we own (wife and I in case you wonder) a house which is currently valued at about $1M with hard working from moving up from a Condo then to a Townhouse and now here today, I keep telling my wife that her next car will be something peppy and something she really wanted. She currently drives a Countryman and she really likes a Mini 3 door JCW with the works so I ain't going to hold back when time comes around to change. We're gonna have our cake and eat it too.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by siwo

You nailed it with the YOLO and the gotta have his cake and eat it, too. I only live once, I'm not going to wait until it's too late. My late father bought his 2015 Corvette brand spanking new just 6 month prior to his unexpected passing and with that ordeal I learn to look at life differently. If I can afford things and still manage the other things in life, such as family, kids and my home etc then why not? I have a 4 year old daughter and we own (wife and I in case you wonder) a house which is currently valued at about $1M with hard working from moving up from a Condo then to a Townhouse and now here today, I keep telling my wife that her next car will be something peppy and something she really wanted. She currently drives a Countryman and she really likes a Mini 3 door JCW with the works so I ain't going to hold back when time comes around to change. We're gonna have our cake and eat it too.

I think if she agrees to do a rotation so each of you get a nice new toy to enjoy, then that's awesome. My girl and I have a similar plan, and it's definitely gotta go both ways. She's having Audi dreams

[Rayscott]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

For one, I can't believe some people carry $500-700/mo leases or notes on their cars. That seems insane to me.

I put down $25,000 and financed the rest. Prior to my BMW, I had owned almost all Japanese cars from 1989 until this year. All my Japanese cars (Nissan, Infiniti, Subaru, Honda, Toyota) lived up to the reliability hype. Never had anything major go wrong.

I'm a car guy thus I figured I'd buy one of the best reviewed BMW's in decades and it was icing on the cake that was it was one of the lowest tech ones offered and it used a fairly tried and true (by BMW standards) N55 motor and ZF 6MT. Most parts are relatively cheap and easy to install with exception of a few select parts that require coding on replacement. BMW does a lot of parts bin sharing now which helps.

I tend to keep my cars 4 to 7 years and I drive around 10K miles a year. Where I can, I maintain the car myself and can do most anything on a car short of pulling a motor or tranny. Brakes, suspension, and things like that are easy on cars and even the M235. I figured I'd give this car a shot for 4 years and if it's a POS, I'll sell it. Otherwise, I'm ok with spending $1,000-2,000 (including tires) year on average maintaining/repairing it. This is WAY more than I typically have spent on my other cars. This is also assuming I still enjoy the car.

And yes, I know I'll loose my butt when it comes to resale. Hopefully my special order MW/Coral Red, 6MT, moonroof delete, non-nav, HK stereo, parking assist M235 will cater to a more select, performance focused buyer willing to pay a little more. I'm willing to risk resale to own a fun car. This car certainly is that type of car.

Not all folks can afford to put 25K down. Thus the higher payments. I only put 3K down on my 228ix and the monthly payments are no issue. I have a retiree detailing business and can easily make 5-6 times more a month than my payment. I drive it mostly at the beach so 5-6K a year is what I will put on it. I have an X3 and it is paid off. I will consider an extended warranty when it is time.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Rayscott

Not all folks can afford to put 25K down. Thus the higher payments. I only put 3K down on my 228ix and the monthly payments are no issue. I have a retiree detailing business and can easily make 5-6 times more a month than my payment. I drive it mostly at the beach so 5-6K a year is what I will put on it. I have an X3 and it is paid off. I will consider an extended warranty when it is time.

Putting that much down with rates where they are is not wise - even a borderline retarded financial advisor can do better w your money for you.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

I think the Autobahn drive would be a shitload of fun... But might also make me feel like I'm never actually using my car to it's full capabilities when I take it back to the US, and I'll be super jealous of everyone living near the Autobahn.

There are only limited stretches of Autobahn without speed restrictions. High-speed driving on them is not for everyone. Germans kill themselves and each other on these stretches with some frequency. The catch in high-speed driving is the closure rates with slower traffic. We never see anything like that on US roads. And traffic there is so heavy that I can make better time on average in Oregon where the posted limit on the Interstates is 65 mph.

[hoppy6698]

Originally Posted by raleedy

All you need is a US driver's license. But it qualifies you in the class of the least trained and most ignorant drivers on the road in Western Europe.

Okay, so quick side trip here on European driving.

1) Get an international driver's license
2) Get educated on driving in Europe, here is a good place to start with a test:
http://usareurpracticetest.com/
3) Talk to others who drove in Europe for best tips
4) Apply logic when dealing with European drivers, they are far more predictable than US ignorance
5) Enjoy the drive. Autobahns are fun and do have unrestricted limit (speed) areas, but they are fewer than before. The country side is gorgeous and the roads are impeccably maintained. Enjoy it!

Now back your regularly scheduled discussions on warranty ...

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Putting that much down with rates where they are is not wise - even a borderline retarded financial advisor can do better w your money for you.

I gave up on financial advisors years ago. I make a ton more money in investments now. A ton more. LOL. See my response to this earlier though. Lots of guys tout the "it's a dumb move" yet they just end up spending that money and not investing it in the first place. $25K is a drop in the bucket for me, but I didn't take it lightly at the least. I could have afforded something 3 to 4X more expensive, but I don't see the point given that I'm only 42 and the chances of me living into my 70s are far greater than getting hit by a bus tomorrow and living that super dumb YOLO life. That gets people DEEP into trouble.

Buying and/or leasing a new car, especially a German one, is one dumb choice any way you cut it. These things have terrible resale and most every single car is a depreciating asset (i.e. dumb financial choice). If you really want to be great with your money, buy a used 2000 Toyota Camry and maintain it or better yet, buy a bicycle or scooter. I'm all for having some fun with your money over the years, but you do need to be somewhat smart about it. Most of us don't want to be working into our 60s.

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I gave up on financial advisors years ago. I make a ton more money in investments now. A ton more. LOL. See my response to this earlier though. Lots of guys tout the "it's a dumb move" yet they just end up spending that money and not investing it in the first place. $25K is a drop in the bucket for me, but I didn't take it lightly at the least. I could have afforded something 3 to 4X more expensive, but I don't see the point given that I'm only 42 and the chances of me living into my 70s are far greater than getting hit by a bus tomorrow and living that super dumb YOLO life. That gets people DEEP into trouble.

Buying and/or leasing a new car, especially a German one, is one dumb choice any way you cut it. These things have terrible resale and most every single car is a depreciating asset (i.e. dumb financial choice). If you really want to be great with your money, buy a used 2000 Toyota Camry and maintain it or better yet, buy a bicycle or scooter. I'm all for having some fun with your money over the years, but you do need to be somewhat smart about it. Most of us don't want to be working into our 60s.

Well these are two very good points. If 25k is really a drop in the bucket for you then who gives at shit if you're being effective with your money - but 25k is not a drop in the bucket for all of us, so I'd rather invest that money than put it down.

You also make a good point about how buying a car is a bad financial decision. This is true and I've mentioned it before in this very thread I believe. The "financially smart" decision is an old Honda or Toyota.


However, given all of that, it doesn't change the fact that IF one were to take that 25k and invest it (and not spend it instead), instead of putting it down on the car, they would most likely come out on top over 5 years, unless the market seriously has a shit few years. So statistically, it's still the better choice.

[Rayscott]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

Well these are two very good points. If 25k is really a drop in the bucket for you then who gives at shit if you're being effective with your money - but 25k is not a drop in the bucket for all of us, so I'd rather invest that money than put it down.

You also make a good point about how buying a car is a bad financial decision. This is true and I've mentioned it before in this very thread I believe. The "financially smart" decision is an old Honda or Toyota.


However, given all of that, it doesn't change the fact that IF one were to take that 25k and invest it (and not spend it instead), instead of putting it down on the car, they would most likely come out on top over 5 years, unless the market seriously has a shit few years. So statistically, it's still the better choice.

[Lucky13]

If your young and your investing and 5 years is your horizon then you don't really understand investing to start with. I'm 63 and I'm still heavily invested in the stock market but I realize you need to invest for 10, 20, 30 years out. I didn't panic in 2008/2009 after losing on paper hundreds of thousands of dollars but it eventually came back and its at all time highs now and could go in the shitter at any time. Even this year it took 1-2 10% dips and some people just panic, just ignor it and invest for the long run or your screwed.

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

If your young and your investing and 5 years is your horizon then you don't really understand investing to start with. I'm 63 and I'm still heavily invested in the stock market but I realize you need to invest for 10, 20, 30 years out. I didn't panic in 2008/2009 after losing on paper hundreds of thousands of dollars but it eventually came back and its at all time highs now and could go in the shitter at any time. Even this year it took 1-2 10% dips and some people just panic, just ignor it and invest for the long run or your screwed.

Are you...... Seriously saying that you don't understand investing with a 5-year time horizon?

As I've said previously in this thread - and I truly don't mean for this to come off as cocky - I've spent some time in hedging. I know how to protect my money given my investment time horizon, and I won't be susceptible to a large dip that would screw me over.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

If your young and your investing and 5 years is your horizon then you don't really understand investing to start with. I'm 63 and I'm still heavily invested in the stock market but I realize you need to invest for 10, 20, 30 years out. I didn't panic in 2008/2009 after losing on paper hundreds of thousands of dollars but it eventually came back and its at all time highs now and could go in the shitter at any time. Even this year it took 1-2 10% dips and some people just panic, just ignor it and invest for the long run or your screwed.

This guy totally gets it. I'm in total agreement.

Just the mere speculation of a bear farting in the woods can drive the market down 3% these days. Instant media and true rigging of the market is largely to blame.

[rich8566]

Originally Posted by Y0tsuya

The German automakers can help you kill two or three birds with one stone. Do a European Delivery and you get a car, vacation, and gourmet food and beer. It's worth doing even just once. Plus you get bragging rights in the US by saying you broke the car in on the Autobahn, with the export plate to prove it.

I've done numerous EDs - and yes, the benefits are terrific. As you said, this includes a price break, a vacation, the autobahn and touring through several European countries. For our first ED, I took the entire family of 5 along for 13 days. We had a great time, but the total tab for the experience, not including the cost of the car, and not factoring in the discounted price of the car, was $18,000 - and that was back in 2007.

[Lucky13]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

Are you...... Seriously saying that you don't understand investing with a 5-year time horizon?

As I've said previously in this thread - and I truly don't mean for this to come off as cocky - I've spent some time in hedging. I know how to protect my money given my investment time horizon, and I won't be susceptible to a large dip that would screw me over.

Dude, you just agreed with me in a post a day ago by saying "the market can take a shit on you". Are you on drugs? You contradict yourself. Yes you do come off cocky and you have no idea how much money I have, how much I've made in investments, what I do for a living so don't give me your bullshit about how smart you are and you spent some time hedging. I ran a $180M company and built it from $16M so don't act like your some fucking second coming. Anybody can protect their money for 5 years its real simple.

[Y0tsuya]

Originally Posted by rich8566

I've done numerous EDs - and yes, the benefits are terrific. As you said, this includes a price break, a vacation, the autobahn and touring through several European countries. For our first ED, I took the entire family of 5 along for 13 days. We had a great time, but the total tab for the experience, not including the cost of the car, and not factoring in the discounted price of the car, was $18,000 - and that was back in 2007.

You can probably travel cheaper in Europe if you plan carefully (off-season etc). But I have to wait until school lets out in the summer anyway, no matter whether I do ED or not. My last trip was 15 days and we spent about $8000 total on plane ticket & hotel. The one before that was 10 days and we spent about $6000. Food is around $50~100/day on top of that but that's highly variable because you could spend $20 at a kebab joint or $100+ at a restaurant. Then there are the guided tours you can go on, but you could just walk yourself if you want to be thrifty.

[wtfbrah]

I'm not really sure why you are so angry. All I said is that I have spent some time working in hedging, albeit a short period of time, and that I can protect my money for a 5-year time horizon. That's literally all I said.

You clearly agree with me:

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Anybody can protect their money for 5 years its real simple.

But I was responding to this in the first place:

your investing and 5 years is your horizon then you don't really understand investing to start with.

Even this year it took 1-2 10% dips and some people just panic, just ignor it and invest for the long run or your screwed.

So I'm really not sure why you're so riled up. You basically said "invest for the long run or you're screwed". I pointed out that you can protect your money over shorter periods of time. You lost your shit.

don't give me your bullshit about how smart you are and you spent some time hedging.

I didn't say I was "smart" either. I felt that my previous work experience was relevant to the discussion.

It's okay though, I get the same thing from a lot of you older folk. Any time I mention any sort of work experience in the context of why I think I'm right about something, I'm just a cocky little asshole kid who thinks he knows everything...

[rich8566]

Originally Posted by Y0tsuya

The German automakers can help you kill two or three birds with one stone. Do a European Delivery and you get a car, vacation, and gourmet food and beer. It's worth doing even just once. Plus you get bragging rights in the US by saying you broke the car in on the Autobahn, with the export plate to prove it.

I've done ED four times. It is a great experience, plus you save money on the car.

[rich8566]

Originally Posted by raleedy

A lease is not a bad choice for your (OP's) circumstances, even if the residuals are bad. If you want out of the car after three years and the market is strong for sellers, you can exercise the purchase option and flip the car. If the market is weak, you can just turn it in. For the privilege of having this flexibility, you pay a big lease inception fee and, if you turn the car in without getting another, a termination fee of $350. It's only a bad choice if (a) you drive too much, (b) you don't take care of the car, or (c) you need to get out for some reason before the lease is up. But really, (a) and (b) are going to hit you the same way if you have bought the car instead of leasing it.

Re "...It's only a bad choice if (a) you drive too much..."

Given that the monthly lease payment on a BMW can be $500-700 per month, or even more, I would argue that driving excess miles really does not matter, and in fact, it can be much cheaper than many think.

Here's why - if my monthly lease payment is $500 with 12k miles per year, that means it costs me 50 cents per mile to drive it. On most leases the excess mileage cost is only 18-25 cents per mile. BMW even discounts the fee if you pay for excess miles as late as one day before lease turn in!

So no worries here re excess mileage on a lease.