[DF]

Originally Posted by Elvisfan

Can you point to anything that says Cadillac is in trouble?

The only thing that sells is the escalade. They are giving away the Ats ans cts. Both of those cars are on the list to avoid by consumer reports. Go Build a ats on true car ans look at the discount. I haven't looked at ats v sales but I have only seen one on the road. I see m4's everywhere

[SteveInfante]

I test drove one, did the research, came to the conclusion that you get the same or better performance (driver dependent) than it's rivals with out the M, AMG, RS tax. They are hard to find in the combo that I want. They aren't selling and dealers try to dealer trade rather than special order what you want. Lease it. It's not a bad deal. Here's the one I drove. Sounded glorious.

[RoundelM3]

If price is all that matters, go for the ATS-V - just don't be too disappointed that it isn't as much of a driver's car as the M235i. I personally would never buy ANY GM vehicle, particularly one as overpriced as a Cadillac. They expect people to pay more for the name, when there's really nothing different under the skin from a Chevrolet. They take a Chevrolet, change the grille and taillights, put a Cadillac emblem on it and then price it $25K more and expect people to buy it as a symbol of "look how much money I'm willing to spend for the Cadillac name". And how many people bought the Cadillac XLR for $25K more than the Corvette it was underneath?

GM has long been run as a bottom-line-dependent public corporation (I worked for a company that was bought by GM in the 1980s), and as such, all they cared about was profit and shareholders. They were so mismanaged that they had to take a government bailout to stay afloat. Look at the recent scandals about knowingly allowing poorly-engineered components to be put into thousands of vehicles because doing it right would have cost maybe $5 per car. Caveat Emptor, I'd say.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by roundel335

...........there's really nothing different under the skin from a Chevrolet. They take a Chevrolet, change the grille and taillights, put a Cadillac emblem on it and then price it $25K more.......

Ummmmm, so which Chevrolet model is it that you believe is identical "under the skin" to the ATS-V for $25K less?

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by bimmerfile

Ummmmm, so which Chevrolet model is it that you believe is identical "under the skin" to the ATS-V for $25K less?

Yep that was a blatant over generalization that really has no bearing whatsoever.

At 62k for the base, it is right on par with others in it's segment.

[Joe240]

I don't know of any twin turbo 3.6L that GM puts out under the Chevy brand. Please do enlighten us. Yes, the ATS-V shares the same alpha platform as the camaro, but that's about it. The camaro has something like 60%+ of its parts unique to itself, so I don't see how you can say the ATS-V is a rebadged camaro. The SS is a rebadged Holden and comes with a v8 with less power than the TT ATS-V so it isn't that car either.

[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by Joe240

I don't know of any twin turbo 3.6L that GM puts out under the Chevy brand. Please do enlighten us. Yes, the ATS-V shares the same alpha platform as the camaro, but that's about it. The camaro has something like 60%+ of its parts unique to itself, so I don't see how you can say the ATS-V is a rebadged camaro. The SS is a rebadged Holden and comes with a v8 with less power than the TT ATS-V so it isn't that car either.

Agreed. The ATS-V engine is a modified version of the one found in the CTS-Vsport. The ATS-V LF4 engine is just a higher performance variant of the LF3. However, both engines are used exclusively in Cadillac vehicles only.

You could make the argument that since the LF3 engine is just a forced induction variant of the LFX engine (used in a lot of GM vehicles), that in fact these engines are just juiced up versions of standard GM engines. However, that would be ridiculous given how many changes/modifications were made to the LF3 and LF4 engines. While I do agree that the majority of GM vehicles share mechanical components, I would say that the ATS-V is unique in that the engine is not used in any other vehicle within the GM portfolio.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by roundel335

If price is all that matters, go for the ATS-V - just don't be too disappointed that it isn't as much of a driver's car as the M235i. I personally would never buy ANY GM vehicle, particularly one as overpriced as a Cadillac. They expect people to pay more for the name, when there's really nothing different under the skin from a Chevrolet. They take a Chevrolet, change the grille and taillights, put a Cadillac emblem on it and then price it $25K more and expect people to buy it as a symbol of "look how much money I'm willing to spend for the Cadillac name". And how many people bought the Cadillac XLR for $25K more than the Corvette it was underneath?

GM has long been run as a bottom-line-dependent public corporation (I worked for a company that was bought by GM in the 1980s), and as such, all they cared about was profit and shareholders. They were so mismanaged that they had to take a government bailout to stay afloat. Look at the recent scandals about knowingly allowing poorly-engineered components to be put into thousands of vehicles because doing it right would have cost maybe $5 per car. Caveat Emptor, I'd say.

I get the emotion and the historical roots of your position, but we're past the days of Cavaliers and Cimarrons. Platform sharing is the standard practice of any successful OEM and each program has to be judged on its own merits. XLR vs.Corvette had very different parameters than the ATS program. In the case of the ATS, I think it's fairly well documented that the degree of differentiation is significant. Notwithstanding marketplace sales, ATS by most measures is a successful engineering outcome for its objectives.

No doubt, all US OEMs made significant and ongoing management errors. However, for accuracy, the reason for the bailout was not mismanagement. It resulted from the credit crunch due to the housing bubble burst in the market failure of 2008. Without available credit, dealers could not order wholesale, cutting off the necessary flow of cash and causing plants to possibly close, cascading to shutting down suppliers who rely on all their OE customers. The bailout allowed cash to continue to flow to maintain output at a minimal level to prevent one of the companies from going under, dragging down the others when the supply base collapsed.

The ignition cylinder situation was clearly not a senior management mis-step on direction. The subsequent information demonstrated that this was the result of middle managers who made grave errors, which they did not address upward, and they, as well as the corporation, have experienced the consequences. This is quite apart from C-suite decisions on product development, quality objectives, and the long range plan which result in products we evaluate as positive or negative.

I have no connection to GM, but do think we should maintain a reasoned analysis of the situation, as well as the OP's question. I would not take the ATS, because I don't care for the car, but calling it a rebadged/reskinned Chevrolet seems unreasonable to me. But, would you object equally to a Camaro if you considered that a rebadged/reskinned ATS? Is it launch sequence and which identity is settled first which makes the perceptual difference?

[kdog26372]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

I have a deal on the table for a new ATS-V Coupe lease. Car has a MSRP of $75K and my lease payment would be $515 per month including tax for 39 months/12K per year. Drive off of $1100 total.

Compare that to a $59K M235i Cab I'm looking at which comes out to $587 per month including tax for 36 months/10K per year. Drive off of $1140 total.

These prices make no sense? If I go to bmwusa.com and spec out an m235i convertible to $57,420 which is close to your $57,860 after your down payment and do a 10k/year lease for 3 years it's $849/month. This assumes best credit rating and best rates for financing. I don't see how you are getting the figure down to $587/month. In order to get my build down to $587/month I'd need $9k off the MSRP or sold price of $48,420 and that's not even including taxes which would be another $3,500.

Are they selling the ATS-V for low $40's?

Any rate, if these prices are legit, then yes the ATS-V is in another league of car and appears to be about 1/2 price of what standard lease should be for a $75k car.

[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by kdog26372

These prices make no sense? If I go to bmwusa.com and spec out an m235i convertible to $57,420 which is close to your $57,860 after your down payment and do a 10k/year lease for 3 years it's $849/month. This assumes best credit rating and best rates for financing. I don't see how you are getting the figure down to $587/month. In order to get my build down to $587/month I'd need $9k off the MSRP or sold price of $48,420 and that's not even including taxes which would be another $3,500.

Are they selling the ATS-V for low $40's?

Any rate, if these prices are legit, then yes the ATS-V is in another league of car and appears to be about 1/2 price of what standard lease should be for a $75k car.

Yes, these numbers are absolutely legit and can be had with some negotiation. In the case of the BMW, I qualify for Fleet discount as well, which helps. I am getting $8K off MSRP on the BMW.

Trying to squeeze a few more dollars out of the ATS-V lease right now and then will lock that up. Should be a fun toy.

[DF]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

Yes, these numbers are absolutely legit and can be had with some negotiation. In the case of the BMW, I qualify for Fleet discount as well, which helps. I am getting $8K off MSRP on the BMW.

Trying to squeeze a few more dollars out of the ATS-V lease right now and then will lock that up. Should be a fun toy.

What about a Chevy SS. They are GIVING those away.

[Anthony235]

I contacted my local Cadi dealer about what lease specials on a nice ATSV coupe they have. Track pack, Recaro seats, Alcantara interior trim. Might trade in the 235i this weekend.

Only had the 235 for about 6 months. Thanks OP! Dammit lol.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

I contacted my local Cadi dealer about what lease specials on a nice ATSV coupe they have. Track pack, Recaro seats, Alcantara interior trim. Might trade in the 235i this weekend.

Only had the 235 for about 6 months. Thanks OP! Dammit lol.

Massey Cadillac down here seems pretty motivated to move anything with a V on the back of it too. I think the high MSRP scares people away and they are a tough sell.

I'd be all over the ATS V too, you are making the right choice.

[B_Rice]

I'm not much of a convertible guy (unless it's a s2000 or cars that only come in a roadster form) so I'd go ATSV

[ORIGIN M.]

Take it home over night, do the same with the M235iC.

You will have no problem deciding.

Happy Wife, Happy Wife.

Roll-out, Top-back !!

[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

I contacted my local Cadi dealer about what lease specials on a nice ATSV coupe they have. Track pack, Recaro seats, Alcantara interior trim. Might trade in the 235i this weekend.

Only had the 235 for about 6 months. Thanks OP! Dammit lol.

Yeah, it's nuts how they are giving these away. Getting this car for a payment in the 5's really is a steal.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

How the hell is this possible?

Residual? MF? Looks like basically zero down...

Big discount, higher residual (2017 2 series especially bad for terms just now).

[15GT-TO-M235]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

Yeah, it's nuts how they are giving these away. Getting this car for a payment in the 5's really is a steal.

still can't figure out your #'s for atsv for 515 per month inc tax, not realistic in my opnion and I do this for a living.

[Rayscott]

My friend has owned caddies for a long time, mostly the CTS. You mention that you want to get a M235 vert. I also wanted a 228ixvert and got it. The caddy is nice but they don't make a convertible. I don't know for sure as I am not a Caddy fan. Great pricing though.

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

I previously owned a M235i Coupe, which I recently transferred the lease on. Reason being, I wanted to get a M235i convertible. However, I have a deal on the table for a new ATS-V Coupe lease. Car has a MSRP of $75K and my lease payment would be $515 per month including tax for 39 months/12K per year. Drive off of $1100 total.

Compare that to a $59K M235i Cab I'm looking at which comes out to $587 per month including tax for 36 months/10K per year. Drive off of $1140 total.

Am I crazy to consider the ATS-V Coupe? Sure, it doesn't get me the convertible I want, but the deal just seems way too good to pass up. A $75K car that competes with the M4 for $515 per month? Yeah, it's kinda nuts.

My wife thinks I'm crazy for considering a Caddy. She thinks I'll regret it, regardless of the price. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. I've been struggling with the decision and would like to make one this week. Right now, I'm leaning towards the ATS-V...

You will regret it. I did. Within 6 months the brake master cylinder broke. Caddy denied the issue for 6 months. They only fixed it when I showed them the car would not stop. Of the 11 german cars I have had, I have never had a brake issue.

Overall the car has a cheap GM feel you will discover over time.

Caddy tried real hard to make an e46. I tried real hard to like it. But there in lies the rub. You should not have to try to love a car.

Your not getting a deal. ATS and CTS are sitting on the lots for months.

Cadillac ATS owner 3 years, thankful it was only a lease.

[Elvisfan]

Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght

You will regret it. I did. Within 6 months the brake master cylinder broke. Caddy denied the issue for 6 months. They only fixed it when I showed them the car would not stop. Of the 11 german cars I have had, I have never had a brake issue.

Overall the car has a cheap GM feel you will discover over time.

Caddy tried real hard to make an e46. I tried real hard to like it. But there in lies the rub. You should not have to try to love a car.

Your not getting a deal. ATS and CTS are sitting on the lots for months.

Cadillac ATS owner 3 years, thankful it was only a lease.

I appreciate that you didn't like the car,but how did you drive it for 6 months without brakes?

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by Elvisfan

I appreciate that you didn't like the car,but how did you drive it for 6 months without brakes?

When the brake master cylinder breaks it is a slow motion brake problem that first appears as a brake pedal problem. You increasingly have to depress the brake harder and harder to brake to stop. When Caddy decided to fix it I had to show that I had the brake pedal to the floor depressed smacking the firewall to stop that car. Even then you rolled a few feet before stopping.