[XutvJet]

I live in Kansas City where we typically get 8 to 12 snow events during the winter where the snow is 2 to 10 inches, most events are 1 to 3 inches though. Snow removal in the town in swift and most all accumulated snow is removed from the road within 4 to 8 hours. I have a job that let's us leave early if snow is coming and we can work from home on snow days. There's really no reason for me to be driving much in the snow unless it's an emergency.

This will be my winter with the M235. I will be buying a set of Continental DWS 225 width tires for my staggered rims. These tires were fabulous in the snow on my prior 2012 WRX. They stay pretty soft in the cold weather (typically 20 to 45 degrees on average) and they have stellar dry weather handling/braking capability in the 40 to 65 degree temps. The newer DWS' also have stiffer sidewalls for improved feel which was a minor gripe.

I believe in outfitting my cars for the driving they do most of the time, NOT the worst case scenario. 98%+ of the time in the winter, the roads in Kansas City are completely clear. Since I don't have to drive in a snow storm, there's no sense in dealing with the compromises of a winter tire for the type of driving conditions my car will face plus the DWS is REALLY close in performance to some of the winter performance tires out there. Additionally, I have a set of AutoSocks from when I had my 2003 G35 RWD and those fit over the rear 18" M235 tires. I never once had to use them on the G35 in 7 years of winter Kansas City driving, but they are good insurance just in case. I have videos of me testing my G35 with the AutoSocks during a snow event and stopping mid way up a steep hill in a 4 inches of dry, slick powder snow. The wheels didn't slip at all when I began to accelerate. Those things are impressive. They'll get shredded on non-snow covered pavement though. If there's a family emergency where we need to be out in the snow, my wife's 2015 Outback 3.6R is up to that task.

[TACP]

After reading all these responses first thank you for the help. Second it looks like I will choose the WS-80s but still confused on which size to get. I will go square set up but not sure how narrow to go. I'm not to concerned about drive on snow I am concerned about hitting ice spots and moderate inclines/declines. Inputs are appreciated.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by TACP

After reading all these responses first thank you for the help. Second it looks like I will choose the WS-80s but still confused on which size to get. I will go square set up but not sure how narrow to go. I'm not to concerned about drive on snow I am concerned about hitting ice spots and moderate inclines/declines. Inputs are appreciated.

If you need/want higher levels of performance on dry/wet but clear surfaces during the winter, the original 225 width is a reasonable compromise. If you are willing to modify your driving style in winter to be more relaxed on dry/wet but clear surfaces, but need the best capability once on the snow/ice, I'd go for the 205, or secondarily, the 215 treadwidth. As with most things, this is another in a series of trade-offs.

Imagine or try this experiment. If you stand on ice (or a well polished floor) with two feet, judge the amount of effort needed to just slide them a little bit. Then (putting balance aside for the moment) stand on one foot, and try to wiggle/slide your foot. The principle is the same...constant weight on a smaller surface = more downforce/traction.

[TACP]

Right on, I will probably go with the 215 just to get a little bit of both. I'm not an aggressive driver with this car so I'm not to concerned about performance but I would still like to have it if needed. Especially over here with the autobahn. I found these rims on sale...
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/resul...taggered+Tires
Thoughts??? I just want a cheap set that fits the car. What sizes on the tire have to match the size of the wheel to fit properly on the car?

[redontheline]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I live in Kansas City where we typically get 8 to 12 snow events during the winter where the snow is 2 to 10 inches, most events are 1 to 3 inches though. Snow removal in the town in swift and most all accumulated snow is removed from the road within 4 to 8 hours. I have a job that let's us leave early if snow is coming and we can work from home on snow days. There's really no reason for me to be driving much in the snow unless it's an emergency.

This will be my winter with the M235. I will be buying a set of Continental DWS 225 width tires for my staggered rims. These tires were fabulous in the snow on my prior 2012 WRX. They stay pretty soft in the cold weather (typically 20 to 45 degrees on average) and they have stellar dry weather handling/braking capability in the 40 to 65 degree temps. The newer DWS' also have stiffer sidewalls for improved feel which was a minor gripe.

I have the same situation where I should hardly ever be forced to drive in the worst of it with leave-early and flexible WFH options and I'd like to keep some comparable performance for this quarter of the year. After all, I drove multiple winters on Pilot Exalto summers. Biggest risk may be trying to drive in it on purpose to go skiing. How come you are going with DWS vs Blizzak LM's?

[TWO-BMW]

After a bit of pondering, I just realized that the Michelin X-Ice XI3's recommended earlier, which did extremely well in the Car and Driver winter tire comparison would save me a lot of money over any run flat option (and I'm not very fond of runflats anyway).

In fact, the savings over the runflats I was looking at, which are not as good a tire as the Michelin's, would pay for three quarters of the cost of a Bimmerzone spare tire and jack kit for my M235ix!

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by redontheline

I have the same situation where I should hardly ever be forced to drive in the worst of it with leave-early and flexible WFH options and I'd like to keep some comparable performance for this quarter of the year. After all, I drove multiple winters on Pilot Exalto summers. Biggest risk may be trying to drive in it on purpose to go skiing. How come you are going with DWS vs Blizzak LM's?

Blizzaks are total overkill for winters in Kansas City and the winter conditions I drive in. I owned a g35 RWD sedan for 7 years and a 94 Z28 for 4 years. I never once had an issue with getting stuck in snow in either car running all seasons that weren't remotely as grippy in the snow. Yes, sometimes you need to plan your routes a bit to avoid the taller snow covered hills but I never got stuck or lost control. I drove in some pretty deep snow in that G35.

The cops in the Kansas City largely drive Chargers. They don't run snow tires. Just all season rubber.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by TWO-BMW

After further research at Tire Rack, it looks like a mistake to go with 17 inch wheels, at least with the M235i. There are quite a few more options in snow tires with 18's. Unfortunate given that going to the smaller size is almost always the better option for a set of winter wheels and tires.

Oops, scratch that. Only two run flat options available, one is discontinued and limited availability, and honestly, I don't want either choice

I agree with this. I went with 18" winters and saved a fortune. I also found that while Tire Rack had a great selection of wheels, their tire selections last year tended toward rather expensive. Some on here like the Michelin X-ice, I have had them in the past and found them underwhelming, which is how I feel about Blizzaks as well.

I took a chance on a new entrant in the US (but well-liked in Europe) and got 225/40-18 Falken EuroWinters and was very happy with them. After a small rebate and with free shipping, they ended up ~$95ea from DiscountTireDirect. I did buy the wheels a pressure sensors from TireRack and had them mounted locally. Good in the snow, very good in the cold and dry and wet. My only complaint is that like most winter tires they are a tad noisy.

I would never buy runflats. I have not had a flat tire in more than 25 years, can't be bothered to worry about it. If the goo compressor won't fix it, AAA will.

[redontheline]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Blizzaks are total overkill for winters in Kansas City and the winter conditions I drive in. I owned a g35 RWD sedan for 7 years and a 94 Z28 for 4 years. I never once had an issue with getting stuck in snow in either car running all seasons that weren't remotely as grippy in the snow. Yes, sometimes you need to plan your routes a bit to avoid the taller snow covered hills but I never got stuck or lost control. I drove in some pretty deep snow in that G35.

The cops in the Kansas City largely drive Chargers. They don't run snow tires. Just all season rubber.

Got it. I was thinking the DWS was a performance winter like the LM's.

[Marmugmotleocay]

I had the Michelin Alpin PA4 tires and tpms mounted today. Im ready for winter.

[X54TH]

I was just about to post on what winter tires to get. Need some recommendations for my son's 2016 M235Xi. We took off his PSS and put them on VMR's 710 for a Summer setup. I'm going to use his stock OEM rims for the Winter setup which is as follows:

Front: 18x7.5, 120mm Bolt Pattern, 45mm Offset, 225/40 R18
Rear: 18x8.0, 120mm Bolt Pattern, 52mm Offset, 245/35 R18

So I'm trying to figure out what are my best options for a staggered winter setup. His driving is 80% highway outside the city. I've used both Blizzaks and X-Ice on his previous 3 series which was primarily city driving. Thought both were good but felt the Michelin's were a bit better. I've also used a staggered setup of Pirelli Scorpion Ice and Snow RFT's on my wife's X5. Thought those were excellent but I don't think the X5 needs much help. Great SUV.

Looking at Hakkapeliita R2 and X-Ice Xi3. Any thoughts and preferences on these two tires with a staggered setup? Also, there doesn't seem to the 245/35/R18. What is the reco to match up that size?

[shark715]

Originally Posted by Marmugmotleocay

I had the Michelin Alpin PA4 tires and tpms mounted today. Im ready for winter.

We have a 235ix vert, and bought a slightly used set of staggered OEM M235 wheels from another forum member and mounted Alpin PA4's (225-40-18 all around) on them.

While the PA4's give very good winter traction and dry road handling is decent for a winter tire, as I posted on another thread the PA4's make the steering wander, and it's more than just a little bit. I find myself constantly having to make course corrections at highway speeds, whereas the summer PSS's don't require this at all. Interestingly enough several other forum members with PA4's said they are not experiencing the issue that I am.

It was so refreshing to get the PSS's back on the car. Not looking forward to putting the winter tires back on, and I was never able to figure out the cause of the issue.

[Marmugmotleocay]

Originally Posted by shark715

We have a 235ix vert, and bought a slightly used set of staggered OEM M235 wheels from another forum member and mounted Alpin PA4's (225-40-18 all around) on them.

While the PA4's give very good winter traction and dry road handling is decent for a winter tire, as I posted on another thread the PA4's make the steering wander, and it's more than just a little bit. I find myself constantly having to make course corrections at highway speeds, whereas the summer PSS's don't require this at all. Interestingly enough several other forum members with PA4's said they are not experiencing the issue that I am.

It was so refreshing to get the PSS's back on the car. Not looking forward to putting the winter tires back on, and I was never able to figure out the cause of the issue.

I have had a bunch of Blizzaks and didn't really like them because of the wobbly sidewall. The Alpins received great reviews so I decided to try them.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by Marmugmotleocay

I have had a bunch of Blizzaks and didn't really like them because of the wobbly sidewall. The Alpins received great reviews so I decided to try them.

Yeah, I saw positive reviews on the Alpin PA4's here, on Tire Rack, and Consumer Reports, too. That's why I'm so disappointed. I've had plenty of experience with winter tires on other vehicles, but never experienced this at all. I don't have any idea what the problem might be.

[augerpro]

Originally Posted by X54TH

I was just about to post on what winter tires to get. Need some recommendations for my son's 2016 M235Xi. We took off his PSS and put them on VMR's 710 for a Summer setup. I'm going to use his stock OEM rims for the Winter setup which is as follows:

Front: 18x7.5, 120mm Bolt Pattern, 45mm Offset, 225/40 R18
Rear: 18x8.0, 120mm Bolt Pattern, 52mm Offset, 245/35 R18

So I'm trying to figure out what are my best options for a staggered winter setup. His driving is 80% highway outside the city. I've used both Blizzaks and X-Ice on his previous 3 series which was primarily city driving. Thought both were good but felt the Michelin's were a bit better. I've also used a staggered setup of Pirelli Scorpion Ice and Snow RFT's on my wife's X5. Thought those were excellent but I don't think the X5 needs much help. Great SUV.

Looking at Hakkapeliita R2 and X-Ice Xi3. Any thoughts and preferences on these two tires with a staggered setup? Also, there doesn't seem to the 245/35/R18. What is the reco to match up that size?

Unless you literally live near the arctic circle, I would steer away from pure winter snow tires and look at high performance snows like the PA4. Pure winter tires give up considerable grip in the dry and even just wet (look at Tirerack's testing). Since even in North Dakota the roads are dry 80% of the time in the winter, that means you are sacrificing safety 80% of the time. The HP snows give a better (IMO) balance of safety between dry and snow conditions. Something to think about.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by augerpro

Unless you literally live near the arctic circle, I would steer away from pure winter snow tires and look at high performance snows like the PA4. Pure winter tires give up considerable grip in the dry and even just wet (look at Tirerack's testing). Since even in North Dakota the roads are dry 80% of the time in the winter, that means you are sacrificing safety 80% of the time. The HP snows give a better (IMO) balance of safety between dry and snow conditions. Something to think about.

Could not disagree more. Once you are in a snow environment, which latitude has little to no significance. Performance winter tires are a half step above all seasons and give up safety and capability on snow and ice that Studless Winter tires deliver. This is the major risk to safety...deteriorating your ability to stop and steer for the foreseeable times you are on snow. Of course, you should drive more reasonably on such surfaces, but when someone else spins, slides sideways in their lane, or somehow loses it unexpectedly, your compromised traction can only worsen the situation. This is what's known as a "low frequency/high criticality" event...you can't always rely on the plows being out ahead of you when snow strikes before the morning rush hour or during the day while you bleakly stare out the office window at the white mounds which used to look like cars. We predictably experience this as far south as Michigan.

It is true that Studless Winter do give up on clear road performance vs performance tires. They are softer, therefore more traction on snow/ice. The answer is simple. For being able to get safely through (including stopping and turning, even when the unexpected happens) the winter when on snow/ice, just back off a bit on your "I have to drive it like it's a BMW all the time" for the winter when on dry! I've been on Blizzak WS for more years than I can remember, and never had a problem on the dry, because I respect what the tire is and is not. I also have never been stuck, nor slid into anyone or anything around me when on snow/ice...with a rear wheel drive car.

Consider the alternative positions expressed here and decide as you deem best.

EDIT: Michelin XIcexi3, still Studless Winter, are more highly regarded for clear road performance than Blizzak WS80, but do give up a smidgen of the capability discussed above.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

This is what's known as a "low frequency/high criticality" event...you can't always rely on the plows being out ahead of you when snow strikes before the morning rush hour or during the day while you bleakly stare out the office window at the white mounds which used to look like cars.

I think everyone's choice should depend on the worst conditions you will likely run up against. IMHO I'm going to go for the tire that's probably going to keep me from getting stuck or in an accident in the worst conditions I expect to see. For me how well a winter tire handles dry conditions is only going come into play once I've covered the former issue. That being said I went for the PA4's as our M235 will likely be home in the garage when the worst conditions hit, although it's likely it will be driven in less than the worst winter conditions.

Of course after the first significant snow last winter I took it for a ride to see just how much it would take before it got stuck :-) In a foot of snow that was somewhat on the dry side, fortunately with both AWD and the PA4's it tended to dig itself out with some minor patience :-)

[Zooks527]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

This is what's known as a "low frequency/high criticality" event...you can't always rely on the plows being out ahead of you when snow strikes before the morning rush hour or during the day while you bleakly stare out the office window at the white mounds which used to look like cars.

Low frequency, my a$$. Every major snowstorm for the past two years, I've been out on the highways before the plows. And damn grateful for my Blizzaks.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Zooks527

Low frequency, my a$$. Every major snowstorm for the past two years, I've been out on the highways before the plows. And damn grateful for my Blizzaks.

LOL! Yes, they can come frequently some years. We've actually had one gentle and one awful winter in the past two. But, the point that over the whole winter, we do drive on clear roads often is valid. How we decide to handle that is where different decisions may be made, but I suspect you and I agree.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by augerpro

Unless you literally live near the arctic circle, I would steer away from pure winter snow tires and look at high performance snows like the PA4. Pure winter tires give up considerable grip in the dry and even just wet (look at Tirerack's testing). Since even in North Dakota the roads are dry 80% of the time in the winter, that means you are sacrificing safety 80% of the time. The HP snows give a better (IMO) balance of safety between dry and snow conditions. Something to think about.

Totally agree with this. I'm a firm believer in preparing your car for the conditions it gets driven in a majority of the time, not the worst case. Yes, "snow" tires are killer in the snow and ice, but if you're only driving on roads that have measureable snow on them 10 days out of the winter, then why make such a compromise. Snow tires have downright terrible dry and wet handling and braking. Why trade off terrible braking in the dry and wet just so you have a bit more traction in the white stuff? Why not just adjust your driving style to compensate for the reducing traction in the snow like most other people do? I've been driving in the winters of Kansas City since 1989, all on all season rubber in FWD, RWD, and AWD cars. I have yet to get stuck or wreck. With my RWD G35 sedan, I drove 40 miles in 4 to 8 inches of snow.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Why not just adjust your driving style to compensate for the reducing traction in the snow like most other people do?.

I do, but that doesn't address the underlying concern. You're not alone on the road, many low-information folks are still on all-season tires in our climate area (Kansas may be different...never been there), and unexpected loss of control among those around you is significantly higher in winter. Therefore, the need for the greatest traction is at its highest in winter, not for the convenience of getting moving, but for the safety of being able to stop/steer when you don't expect it and even if you are already being cautious. How often does someone start to fishtail/wiggle in the next lane, lose it, and shoot across your path in the other three seasons? A wintertime event in my experience.

Glad you haven't had a bad experience in a crash, and hope that continues for you!!

[shark715]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

but if you're only driving on roads that have measureable snow on them 10 days out of the winter, then why make such a compromise. Snow tires have downright terrible dry and wet handling and braking. Why trade off terrible braking in the dry and wet just so you have a bit more traction in the white stuff? Why not just adjust your driving style to compensate for the reducing traction in the snow like most other people do? I've been driving in the winters of Kansas City since 1989, all on all season rubber in FWD, RWD, and AWD cars. I have yet to get stuck or wreck. With my RWD G35 sedan, I drove 40 miles in 4 to 8 inches of snow.

Of course there will always be people here in the U.S. who are going to point that they drive winter after winter with all season rubber and have never become stuck or in accident. Sure, most people will be lucky and make it through, and most people will not go through the hassle of changing their tires.

If you think all winter tires do is provide "a bit more traction in the white stuff", then it's clear you really are not familiar with them. While all tires are a compromise, it's simply not true that snow tires have downright terrible dry and wet handling and braking. Sure there are tradeoffs, but it's far, far more dangerous to drive in winter conditions with just all season tires versus driving on a dry or wet road with a winter tire.

Why not just adjust your driving style to compensate for the reducing traction in the snow like most other people do? Have you ever noticed how backed up the body shops get even after just a moderate winter weather event?

But if winter tires keep you out of just one accident, they almost certainly just paid for themselves, and potentially far more. 2 years ago there was 2 or 3 inches of a wintry mix here. My cousin stopped for a traffic light on a hill in his Xice3 equipped 5 series, and was rammed from behind by one of his neighbors who was driving a G35 (coincidentally) whose all season tires could not stop him. There was more than $15k of damage between the two cars, and my cousin is still suffering fron a neck injury. His neighbor learned his lesson the hard way and is now a winter tire believer. You may choose to take the risk of venturing out without winter tires, but unfortunately you are also risking other people's property and well being.

With good reason many European countries have winter tire laws. Some require them outright, and in others you are subject to heavy fines if you are in an accident without them. We should be so serious about our driving...