[Dr. Indiana Jones]

No question, an MT is fun but u can't react as quickly in terms of both performance and safety as an AT (w Steptronic). Now I gotta admit, shifting thru 8 gears in the M235i AT is a bit crazy but u get used to it... I'd still prefer 6 gears like the MT... OEMs are now going to 9 and even 10-gear AT setups - it's getting ridiculous, just to save fuel. I suspect that in the very near future there will be hi-performance continuously variable ATs giving max torque automatically w/o the need for shifting (just like an electric car). Boring perhaps, but u can't argue w the technology. Now if only these OEMs could put a hi-performance (even dual clutch) AT w steptronic into a 6MT shift configuration/pattern, now that w/b the best of both worlds. And there is really no reason they can't - the existing up/down shift of steptronic ATs are simply electrically controlled. Could u imagine the control and fun in being able to shift the stick like a 6MT (so u know and can instantly control what gear your in, w/o having to look on the dash, and no need to give a little gas when downshifting), and yet there is no hassle of a 3rd pedal to activate the clutch. We'd all be in heaven. And thx for calling me Dr. Jones - such respect - I go by Dr. Indy for short. There will always be diehards who prefer an MT, and I respect their choice.

[harma24]

Originally Posted by Dr. Indiana Jones

(so u know and can instantly control what gear your in, w/o having to look on the dash

Give it time. My old car, I could tell you +/- 5mph exactly how fast I was going and what gear I was in just by the sound and feel of it. No need to look at the dash for anything. I'm not quite there yet in my 240 (there are too many combinations), but after 6 months, I'm getting to know her better.

As for the 8 gears on the AT, if you ever drive around in sport mode not in "M", note that the computer won't ever select 8th. There's so little difference between 7 & 8 the only time I consider using it is when I am cruising on the highway with few other cars around.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by crabu2

You could say that about anything on a car these days.. AC, power windows/locks/seats, navigation... on and on and on. They all add complexity and make DIY more difficult.

As for for it being a fad... I don't think so.. Over the years .. even decades, there are more and more AWD vehicles built and sold. And I hate to say it, but RWD is a dying breed.

Cars and their features are totally fad driven. The government jumps in to add a few features so they can recognize you and send your loved ones the clean up bill when one imprints themselves against a solid object. The prime goal of cars is to serve as ass movers. You need 19 inch wheels, heads up display, or more interior space than a flower shop to do that? Be honest there. AWD was first used in 1900. So BMW couldn't crack the AWD code for a 100 years? XDrive is designed to do one thing. Steal sales from Audi. What's one of Tesla's biggest challenges? Battery life? No. Selling cars in Texas since they don't have a dealership network and only sell direct.

There's lots of science in car engineering but zero logic in car marketing.

My prediction for future cars? They'll be cars in the future. That's it.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by menncars

Cars and their features are totally fad driven. .......................

Correct. One horsepower is enough for anyone to get around. - with 4 hoof drive, btw.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by bimmerfile

Correct. One horsepower is enough for anyone to get around. - with 4 hoof drive, btw.

And did you see how much staying power the horse had? It's like 10,000 years and they still use them today. The car? Total rank amateur.

[Maynard]

Detailing the horse is a lot more dangerous though.

[caycep]

get/rent a subie for the snow days?

[crabu2]

Originally Posted by caycep

get/rent a subie for the snow days?

That's easier said than done.. Around here the weathermen seem worthless. They can't predict if it's going to snow, rain, or just sunshine. Because of that, there are many times I've been at work without the truck, while the white stuff came down..

BTW, I live just down the street from the Mason Dixon line.. and I've seen it rain on the south side of the line while it was snowing on the north side. 1st time I saw it happen, I was like WOW.. it's like that commercial from the 80s... I think it was a tire commercial.

Edit: HAHAHAHA I found it..

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by crabu2

That's easier said than done.. Around here the weathermen seem worthless. They can't predict if it's going to snow, rain, or just sunshine. Because of that, there are many times I've been at work without the truck, while the white stuff came down..

BTW, I live just down the street from the Mason Dixon line.. and I've seen it rain on the south side of the line while it was snowing on the north side. 1st time I saw it happen, I was like WOW.. it's like that commercial from the 80s... I think it was a tire commercial.

Edit: HAHAHAHA I found it..

I seriously make car and winter tire decisions based solely on getting home. If it's bad I'm not going anywhere but worst case scenario I'm at office or dad's or whatever and all hell breaks loose with an unexpected blizzard, can I get back to base safely and ride it out.

[Dr. Indiana Jones]

Originally Posted by harma24

Give it time. My old car, I could tell you +/- 5mph exactly how fast I was going and what gear I was in just by the sound and feel of it. No need to look at the dash for anything. I'm not quite there yet in my 240 (there are too many combinations), but after 6 months, I'm getting to know her better.

As for the 8 gears on the AT, if you ever drive around in sport mode not in "M", note that the computer won't ever select 8th. There's so little difference between 7 & 8 the only time I consider using it is when I am cruising on the highway with few other cars around.

I agree... I've been driving an M235i for 3 yrs now and, yes, u can pretty much feel what gear u are in within reason... and u are 100% right; in full AT, the car will never select 8th gear (well let's just say that u'd have to be travelling at 200 km/hr+ to find out), and I too only use it to save fuel when no body is around. I used to drive only in sport mode, but the car is so fast, I often drive in comfort mode to save some fuel. I mostly drive in full manual/steptronic mode, as I prefer the ability to control the car better (better acceleration and braking w the engine), and will often flip to to full AT when in tight spots/parking.

[brennok]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

Agreed. I would get S5 instead, with torque vectoring LSD

I wish Audi offered a car to compete with the M240i just to see what they would do.

The S5 is too big for what I want and starts in the M2 price range.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by brennok

I wish Audi offered a car to compete with the M240i just to see what they would do.

The S5 is too big for what I want and starts in the M2 price range.

The S3 is Audi's competitor to the M240i xDrive.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by aerobod

The S3 is Audi's competitor to the M240i xDrive.

M235i used to be closer to RS3 I believe, but for 2017 there is now a new and better RS3 on the market

[DJEwen]

Originally Posted by caycep

get/rent a subie for the snow days?

+1

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

M235i used to be closer to RS3 I believe, but for 2017 there is now a new and better RS3 on the market

On price and spec, the RS3 is closest to the M2.

[Maynard]

I thought the TT was more competition, but higher price, IIRC. Really a different vibe from Audi overall, not bad, but hard to compare directly.

[Mr Carrots]

The new RS3 is a direct competitor to the M2 and FWD bias aside seems to beat it pretty soundly around a track and in a straight line.

The stock S3 is far behind the m240i but if you get an APR stage 1 it's putting down about the same numbers as a stock M240i at the wheels

[Rosseau]

R&T just tested a 2018 RS3 and it is seriously fast, as in 3.5 to 60. I have a homegrown method of calculating power/weight/hp/0-60 in my head that is 80% accurate, except if it's an Audi. Take the 2017 A3. It simply shouldn't be as quick as tested based on it's "official" HP rating.