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      05-30-2015, 03:41 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LinkF1 View Post
I haven't enjoyed a BMW manual since my E36 M3. I love the DCT in my 135, I dislike the 8AT in my wife's Z4 and hated the manual in my E46 325Ci. I want to step up to the M-DCT from my current DCT but if it isn't offered I may step down to the M235i and go manual. I don't need the size of the M3 and the upgrade from M235 to the M2 will be even less of a jump without the offering of DCT.
I also like the manual in the e36 M3, except for the 5th gear detent issue that I never bothered to fix ($$$). I also disliked the manual in the e46s, mainly because of the occasional rpm hanging issue while shifting (and rubbery feel).

Quote:
Originally Posted by W///
Personally, I prefer the 6MT in my E92 M3 than I do on the 5MT in my E36 M3. They are both completely different of course, and I know I'm probably in the minority. Just because the clutch is so light in the E92, it's so much easier for me to be smooth and it's not as difficult to drive in traffic in terms of effort.
+1

I like the shorter-throw and less rubbery feel of the newer M cars. It feels like they come with a SSK from the factory in comparison. Agreed on the clutch too. They are a little lighter than the e36 one.

I'm expecting the M2 manual to be just as good as any of the latter M's.
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      05-30-2015, 08:37 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
I also like the manual in the e36 M3, except for the 5th gear detent issue that I never bothered to fix ($$$). I also disliked the manual in the e46s, mainly because of the occasional rpm hanging issue while shifting (and rubbery feel).



+1

I like the shorter-throw and less rubbery feel of the newer M cars. It feels like they come with a SSK from the factory in comparison. Agreed on the clutch too. They are a little lighter than the e36 one.

I'm expecting the M2 manual to be just as good as any of the latter M's.
I forgot to mention that my 5MT on the E36 has been refreshed. Fixed the 5th gear lean, new clutch, new fly wheel, all new shifter bushings... still prefer my E92's.

The one on the M2 will be good since it should be the same as the one from the M3/4 I would assume.
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      05-31-2015, 07:26 PM   #91
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This thinking, at the extreme- would have arguing that you should option the 'self-driving' feature so that you claim a car that turns 7 min Ring times (while you read the paper). Sure- you hit the ignition, you were in the car...but did you have any fun?
Of course he (whoever you're referring to) had fun! Being first at the finish line is, viscerally, way more fun than being second. And for that reason, you're not going to win the debate by bringing up "fun."
To me, the 6 spd is, today, less about fun and, more about rebellion, non conformity, control and those kinds of things. The same kinds of things which motivated this character from the movie American Graffiti.
Agree- fun is subjective. Great pic.
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      06-01-2015, 09:50 AM   #92
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Sorry if this is a dumb question but from the driver's perspective what is the difference between a DCT and the current 8AT with paddles? Not asking about the engineering and internal mechanics. I mean what does the DCT do that the AT doesn't. I have zero experience with either.

Someone posted about the DCT being able to drop down multiple gears at once instead of multiple pulls of the paddle. Is that true?
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      06-01-2015, 11:12 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoDoc View Post
Sorry if this is a dumb question but from the driver's perspective what is the difference between a DCT and the current 8AT with paddles? Not asking about the engineering and internal mechanics. I mean what does the DCT do that the AT doesn't. I have zero experience with either.

Someone posted about the DCT being able to drop down multiple gears at once instead of multiple pulls of the paddle. Is that true?
DCT is faster at grabbing gears, very crisp gear changes with an instant kick in the butt. I was impressed with the ZF, it's fast but a little more polite.

Yes, DCT has kickdown. Slam the gas pedal into the floor, downshift and it'll grab the lowest gear for optimal acceleration.
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      06-01-2015, 12:12 PM   #94
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Its not a minivan. Get the MT.
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      06-01-2015, 01:50 PM   #95
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Its not a minivan. Get the MT.
I bet you're also homophobic.
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      06-01-2015, 02:46 PM   #96
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I bet you're also homophobic.
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      06-01-2015, 02:57 PM   #97
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I bet you're also homophobic.
...
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      06-01-2015, 03:10 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denk View Post
DCT is faster at grabbing gears, very crisp gear changes with an instant kick in the butt. I was impressed with the ZF, it's fast but a little more polite.

Yes, DCT has kickdown. Slam the gas pedal into the floor, downshift and it'll grab the lowest gear for optimal acceleration.
Can't you also just hold down the "-" lever and it will find the lowest available gear? Or am I thinking of PDK?
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      06-01-2015, 03:15 PM   #99
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For me, this is a hard choice. Every single car I've owned, except my 2010 DCT 135, has been a manual. I do love shifting my own gears, and it remains one of the most fun aspects of driving. It's also the "free" option, which is nice.

With that being said, the DCT in the F82 that I test drove was very impressive, with the shifts being very fast (and almost brutal, in a good way). It also sounded really nice on decel, and can be turned up or down in character depending on what kind of mood you're in. That's the really nice part...

I am also in more traffic these days than I used to be, and it does get tiresome to have to mess with the clutch if you aren't in the right window for light traffic going to or from work. It would be nice (yes, I know that's lazy) to let the car do it for me in those circumstances.

But the DCT also costs $3000. That's a lot, and is money you could put towards other options or whatever. It will be a tough choice and my mind isn't made up yet.
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      06-01-2015, 03:26 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
For me, this is a hard choice. Every single car I've owned, except my 2010 DCT 135, has been a manual. I do love shifting my own gears, and it remains one of the most fun aspects of driving. It's also the "free" option, which is nice.

With that being said, the DCT in the F82 that I test drove was very impressive, with the shifts being very fast (and almost brutal, in a good way). It also sounded really nice on decel, and can be turned up or down in character depending on what kind of mood you're in. That's the really nice part...

I am also in more traffic these days than I used to be, and it does get tiresome to have to mess with the clutch if you aren't in the right window for light traffic going to or from work. It would be nice (yes, I know that's lazy) to let the car do it for me in those circumstances.

But the DCT also costs $3000. That's a lot, and is money you could put towards other options or whatever. It will be a tough choice and my mind isn't made up yet.
I'd also think about it long term. Long story short:
- Drove E92 M3 for the first time at the Performance Center with DCT. Loved it
- Drove E92 M3 for an extended period when I was in Munich (1 full day) and loved it at first, but got bored of it after half a day. Mix of city traffic, driving in the Alps and Autobahn.
- Drove E92 M3 in Munich again for 2 full days. Decided that mine will be a 6MT.

Again, this is not a knock on DCT. I find it impressive for sure. But if I missed 6MT within a couple of hours, then I know I will regret it within a couple of months/years for sure.

Food for thought
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      06-01-2015, 03:31 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoDoc
Sorry if this is a dumb question but from the driver's perspective what is the difference between a DCT and the current 8AT with paddles? Not asking about the engineering and internal mechanics. I mean what does the DCT do that the AT doesn't. I have zero experience with either.

Someone posted about the DCT being able to drop down multiple gears at once instead of multiple pulls of the paddle. Is that true?
No dumb questions, finally I've owned both:-

8AT
Automatic box can shift with paddles
Fast and very smooth
Kicks down 1-2 gears I experienced
Will shift to protect the engine
Creeps I.e car rolls without the gas pedal being depress
You didn't want this to to my knowledge this is a ZF engineered torque converter box and with pretty much any BMW engine one of the best power train combos out there

DCT
Can shift auto it paddles
Very fast and can be smooth or punchy, there are 3 settings of shift speed
I think can kick down to the lowest possible gear within engine revs
Does not creep like a torque converter box, this is odd at first, there is a low speed assist mode that's a bit awkward to engage but does constant 2mph
Essentially more of a 2 manual boxes joined together gearbox

Hope this helps, sorry if text is messy on the phone at airport
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      06-01-2015, 03:35 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Can't you also just hold down the "-" lever and it will find the lowest available gear? Or am I thinking of PDK?
No, you have to kickdown...push the accelerator down hard then downshift and it will select the lowest gear it can immediately. If you just down shift and hold, it'll only select the next lower gear. You can rapid fire down but it won't skip straight to the lowest optimal gear. I don't know if PDK is different.
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      06-01-2015, 07:03 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
I'd also think about it long term. Long story short:
- Drove E92 M3 for the first time at the Performance Center with DCT. Loved it
- Drove E92 M3 for an extended period when I was in Munich (1 full day) and loved it at first, but got bored of it after half a day. Mix of city traffic, driving in the Alps and Autobahn.
- Drove E92 M3 in Munich again for 2 full days. Decided that mine will be a 6MT.

Again, this is not a knock on DCT. I find it impressive for sure. But if I missed 6MT within a couple of hours, then I know I will regret it within a couple of months/years for sure.

Food for thought
This is excellent food for thought - you basically described my first two weeks with the aforementioned DCT 135...and then I was bored with it for most of the remaining time I had the car.

The new version in the M4 felt significantly more brutal however, and that was definitely enticing on a test drive. Decisions decisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denk View Post
No, you have to kickdown...push the accelerator down hard then downshift and it will select the lowest gear it can immediately. If you just down shift and hold, it'll only select the next lower gear. You can rapid fire down but it won't skip straight to the lowest optimal gear. I don't know if PDK is different.
I think I saw this on an episode of Tog Gear - and maybe the pedal was pressed all the way down...and it could have been a Ferrari. I am getting too old to remember - but thanks for the info.
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      06-01-2015, 11:13 PM   #104
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Is there an automatic version without the flappy paddles?
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      06-02-2015, 12:37 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Car Chris View Post
No dumb questions, finally I've owned both:-

8AT
Automatic box can shift with paddles
Fast and very smooth
Kicks down 1-2 gears I experienced
Will shift to protect the engine
Creeps I.e car rolls without the gas pedal being depress
You didn't want this to to my knowledge this is a ZF engineered torque converter box and with pretty much any BMW engine one of the best power train combos out there

DCT
Can shift auto it paddles
Very fast and can be smooth or punchy, there are 3 settings of shift speed
I think can kick down to the lowest possible gear within engine revs
Does not creep like a torque converter box, this is odd at first, there is a low speed assist mode that's a bit awkward to engage but does constant 2mph
Essentially more of a 2 manual boxes joined together gearbox

Hope this helps, sorry if text is messy on the phone at airport


Nice to hear the DCT does not creep, I do like the thought.

I haven a Cayman GTS PDK, it creeps, and that is about the only thing I don`t like about it, it is just fabolous !

I do als have the 1M, manual of course, also great fun.

IMHO;

The 6 speed is better on the turbo because of massive torque, the DCT will be better on the NA high revving engine.

Anyhow; I can not chosse
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      06-02-2015, 12:45 AM   #106
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I still fine it mind boggling that my s2k in 1999 had and still has a superior 6mt than any m car. that is sad.
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      06-02-2015, 12:36 PM   #107
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Currently have a 335i MT and I hate it. Love the manual in my friend's S2k and my other friend's E92 M3. If the M2 feels the same as my current 335i MT, I'm going DCT
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      06-02-2015, 01:48 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1k0ne View Post
Currently have a 335i MT and I hate it. Love the manual in my friend's S2k and my other friend's E92 M3. If the M2 feels the same as my current 335i MT, I'm going DCT
IIRC, the MT in the E92 M3 and 1M were the same - more or less, maybe some slight differences between them. But my guess is that we will see a further iteration of it in the M2 - so if you like the MT in your buddy's car, you shouldn't be disappointed.

PS - I am not crazy about the MT in my 235 either. It's not bad, but not great.
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      06-02-2015, 02:29 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1k0ne View Post
Currently have a 335i MT and I hate it. Love the manual in my friend's S2k and my other friend's E92 M3. If the M2 feels the same as my current 335i MT, I'm going DCT
Go drive a 6MT M3/4 and you'll have your answer
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      06-02-2015, 02:50 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Go drive a 6MT M3/4 and you'll have your answer
Absolutely, that's what I did. I think the f8x manual has better clutch feel/engagement and throws are better than the e9x...not to mention the cool tech rev matching which I liked. If one already likes the e9x manual it's a no brainer for the M2.

I'm a DCT fan with the e9x but the 6mt is the direction I'm leaning to with the M2. I really enjoy both and appreciate what each brings to the table.
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