[clemsonkev]

http://www.swapalease.com/lease/deta...?salid=1094538

I'm interested in the car......... need to reach.

[Dylan86]

Car looks familiar for sure, just unsure who it belongs to. Hope it all works out for you!

D

[bryan_G01]

great price for all the options included.
Just know that those hp numbers are crank and not wheel.

[BMWZ4]

Sorry to highjack, but curious to know what car manufacturers publish HP & TQ figures at the wheel - I'm assuming none and they're all at the crank, so why is it important for any prospective buyer to know the #'s are crank, not wheel...

[BEM-S4]

One note on the ad. DINAN has a backup 4 year warranty so if BMW claims something is not their fault then DINAN will step in. It's not all handled through BMW as the listing claims. Not a huge deal just an added layer to deal with in the event of trouble. That's why some (me included) have Dinan work performed at a BMW dealer that is an approved installed just to minimize hassle.

[PCTAtc]

Seems like a good deal to swap this lease and sell all the performance parts!

[bryan_G01]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

Sorry to highjack, but curious to know what car manufacturers publish HP & TQ figures at the wheel - I'm assuming none and they're all at the crank, so why is it important for any prospective buyer to know the #'s are crank, not wheel...

Because no one quotes crank numbers if your discussing the power of your car.
You want dyno proven Wheel HP. Which is very different than crank, can be 15% off.

If you say I have 400hp, ppl assume wheel, and you don't, you have like 350 wheel.

[BMWZ4]

Outside of car enthusiasts I seriously doubt anyone would know the difference or that there are 2 reported power figures. For example, someone buys an IS which something like ~ 240hp (crank)...and will be telling all their buds it's 240hp when in reality (apparently) it's more like ~210hp...more than likely they'll be saying it's the former.

[bryan_G01]

depends on who you roll with.

You'd get laughed at and harassed for quoting crank numbers around here.

[BMWZ4]

Makes no difference to me. Just a number.

[Transfer]

BMW probably won't take back a leased car with mods even if Dinan so anyone taking this one over should be planning to buy out. Car looks good though.

[USA-RET]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

Sorry to highjack, but curious to know what car manufacturers publish HP & TQ figures at the wheel - I'm assuming none and they're all at the crank, so why is it important for any prospective buyer to know the #'s are crank, not wheel...

Okay, so my 2015 MINI Cooper S is rated as 189 HP. It dyno'ed at 188.6 at the wheels.

I do believe the numbers you get from BMW (and most other German car manufacturers) is WHP.

This has been discussed at length on other sites. Guys bring their cars in for a Dyno run (and yes I know the results vary depending on temp, elevation and such), but all the MINI, BMW, cars test @ the wheels w/ the manufacturers published HP ratings (or very close to it). Likely Porsche uses the same rating for their cars to do so well against the competition where they appear to be way down on HP.

This begs to question Dinan's published numbers. Are they @ the crank numbers or wheels? If they are at the crank, then in the case where 320HP get bumped to 399HP, you are getting virtually zero HP gain from their tune (since the 320 is WHP)...crank HP should be close to 400 w/ the stock tune.

More than likely the 399 is at the wheels otherwise no one would be buying them.

[M235]

its all about WHP!!!...crank hp is not accurate, when crank hp is reasonably close to whp is usually a sign of good engineering (aka 911s). A good example is corvettes. a ZR1 has 640 to the crank but delivers around 550-560 to the wheel. too much loss of power.

[Maynard]

If they are publishing crank HP, aren't they estimating this back from wheel readings (i.e. drive-on roller dynos)? They aren't pulling and bench-running the engines in a dyno cradle to get these #'s are they?

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by M235

its all about WHP!!!...crank hp is not accurate, when crank hp is reasonably close to whp is usually a sign of good engineering (aka 911s). A good example is corvettes. a ZR1 has 640 to the crank but delivers around 550-560 to the wheel. too much loss of power.

This is waaaaay oversimplified. It's not all good engineering; it's also partially a function of the drivetrain used. For instance: a 911 has less driveline power loss because a RWD rear-engine car doesn't need mechanisms that sap crank power -- driveshafts, extra differentials, etc. -- that a front-engine RWD car requires. It also doesn't need a transfer case because the engine is mounted longitudinally (crankshaft alignment: front to back) instead of transversally (crankshaft: left to right), as is the case with many FWD cars.

Bryan_f22's 15-percent figure is a good one to use for engines mounted on the opposite end of the drive wheels. It can be lower for cars such as RWD 911s or mid-engined cars, or higher for AWD cars. It all depends on the hardware in the way between the crankshaft and the driven rubber because it all robs some power.

But back to the issue: All that's important is to understand where any power figures you come across or need are taken from, then translate them as needed. No one's going to laugh at you ... and if they do, they're not worth your time. Who has time for mod snobs?

[B58togo]

Originally Posted by USA-RET

Okay, so my 2015 MINI Cooper S is rated as 189 HP. It dyno'ed at 188.6 at the wheels.

I do believe the numbers you get from BMW (and most other German car manufacturers) is WHP.

This has been discussed at length on other sites. Guys bring their cars in for a Dyno run (and yes I know the results vary depending on temp, elevation and such), but all the MINI, BMW, cars test @ the wheels w/ the manufacturers published HP ratings (or very close to it). Likely Porsche uses the same rating for their cars to do so well against the competition where they appear to be way down on HP.

This begs to question Dinan's published numbers. Are they @ the crank numbers or wheels? If they are at the crank, then in the case where 320HP get bumped to 399HP, you are getting virtually zero HP gain from their tune (since the 320 is WHP)...crank HP should be close to 400 w/ the stock tune.

More than likely the 399 is at the wheels otherwise no one would be buying them.

All the dynos I've seen seem to show the M235i to be right around 300 whp in stock form, so at 320 bhp, it's certainly a bit underrated, as has always been the case with BMW's turbo cars. I would guess the N55 is making 350-360 at the cank in this application, not 400. Their N/A cars have always been more appropriately rated. e46 M3's used to show ~ 285 whp on a 333 bhp rating, which is right around 15%.

Originally Posted by Viffermike

This is waaaaay oversimplified. It's not all good engineering; it's also partially a function of the drivetrain used. For instance: a 911 has less driveline power loss because a RWD rear-engine car doesn't need mechanisms that sap crank power -- driveshafts, extra differentials, etc. -- that a front-engine RWD car requires. It also doesn't need a transfer case because the engine is mounted longitudinally (crankshaft alignment: front to back) instead of transversally (crankshaft: left to right), as is the case with many FWD cars.

Bryan_f22's 15-percent figure is a good one to use for engines mounted on the opposite end of the drive wheels. It can be lower for cars such as RWD 911s or mid-engined cars, or higher for AWD cars. It all depends on the hardware in the way between the crankshaft and the driven rubber because it all robs some power.

But back to the issue: All that's important is to understand where any power figures you come across or need are taken from, then translate them as needed. No one's going to laugh at you ... and if they do, they're not worth your time. Who has time for mod snobs?

This. A RWD Porsche should in theory show less parasitic losses than a conventional RWD/front engine design. Similar to a FWD layout. It's all about moment-of-inertia. The further out the drive wheels are from the power source, the more the parasitic loss. A general rule of thumb I've always subscribed to is 12% for FWD, 15% for RWD and 18-20% for AWD. These are SAE corrected Dynojet numbers. Take a look at a stock STI/WRX dyno sometime; not exactly impressive, but they make up for their increased power losses through better traction off the line.

[B58togo]

BTW, did anyone else scroll down far enough to see the lease buyout on 8/8/18? It's $43347. Umm, no thanks.

[bryan_G01]

a stock rwd 235 will push about 300whp stock on a dynojet. STD/Smoothing 5.
a stock awd 235 will be considerably less, like 270whp.

Both claim 320 at crank.

So with Dinan, you may only be getting in reality 5whp per stage.
I know each stage increases psi by 2psi with a max at 18psi for stage 4.

A Dinan stage 4 dynos 389whp, while they claim 445HP.

Considering you have to buy their intake, turbos and FMIC plus the dinantronics you get very little in ROI.

Hence while friends don't let friends buy dinan tunes anymore.

The fmic, intake, springs are great products.

Also to mention, none of these are going to help with resale. Our buddy in Colorado had every part dinan made on his 235, everyhting, brakes, rims, every suspension component, stage 4, fuel pump etc... only got around 45k, with 12k miles on a private sale to buy a GTR.

[mrfattbill]

Originally Posted by B58togo

BTW, did anyone else scroll down far enough to see the lease buyout on 8/8/18? It's $43347. Umm, no thanks.

First thing I noticed lol.

Bill

[USA-RET]

Something of interest perhaps:

B58 Motor in M140i Dyno. Results should be similar w/ the M240i no?

[B58togo]

^^

I would think so. Burger got 380 whp (STD on a Dynojet I believe) out of a 340i with JB4. I bet a 240i would show 380 SAE (the real deal) with a JB4. Probably damn close to 400 with the addition of an intake/DP. I do know I'll have an intake/JB4 sitting on my porch before my car arrives. Probably hold off a bit on the DP. But then with meth injection, I think this B58 is going to be a very, very special power plant.

[Merc for hire]

That's a insane buyout price. My is high 20ks