[tccox]

Originally Posted by Dr. Indiana Jones

IMHO no one can shift as quickly and as smoothly as the teptronic auto can... manual simply can't compete anymore. If u were going to buy an exotic high HP car, would u go manual - I don't think so.

Absolutely yes, I would

[jgunnz]

Originally Posted by tccox

Absolutely yes, I would

+1

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by jrannik

+1

Agree here as well. Those who don't understand this think the issue is about speed. It's not. It's about the enjoyment of driver involvement and not letting technology increasingly take over the role of the driver. We would rather not be turned into Air France pilots.

[jgunnz]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Agree here as well. Those who don't understand this think the issue is about speed. It's not. It's about the enjoyment of driver involvement and not letting technology increasingly take over the role of the driver. We would rather not be turned into Air France pilots.

Ooh, well said.

[pikcachu]

It's about convenience too... and not have to clutch in and out 50 times in stop go traffic

The speed of the auto is a fact....

The involvement is totally subjective.... and I totally understand some people might like more a manual.... but it's just an opinion...

[jb606]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Those who don't understand this think the issue is about speed. It's not. It's about the enjoyment of driver involvement and not letting technology increasingly take over the role of the driver.

Well said

[ciwhamc]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Agree here as well. Those who don't understand this think the issue is about speed. It's not. It's about the enjoyment of driver involvement and not letting technology increasingly take over the role of the driver. We would rather not be turned into Air France pilots.

+1.

There are few times that an auto is nice. When I have my coffee cup in the morning traffic. It's nice. For. Me 95% of the time I just get such a pleasure out of changing the gears my self. I don't care if it is not as fast it's about the joy I grtnkot the 2 thenths of a second. On a hypercar I would still want a manual. Just so I could terrify my self.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

It's about convenience too... and not have to clutch in and out 50 times in stop go traffic

The speed of the auto is a fact....

The involvement is totally subjective.... and I totally understand some people might like more a manual.... but it's just an opinion...

Interesting to get philosophical about this!

"Speed" may be a fact, but is an inherently almost irrelevant one to this discussion. 0-60 in 2 seconds versus 3 seconds....a fact of no inherent meaning other than for subjective pleasure.

So, the subjective appreciation of faster speed is the relevant comparison to the subjective appreciation of involvement. For some of us, involvement wins. For others, speed wins. Both opinions, but neither "just". The choice is why we are all here, and leaving (in my case) brands where the choice no longer exists.

[Ramos]

If you have to ask, it means that you are hesitating. If you're hesitating,go 6MT. It's a dying breed, enjoy it while you can

[pikcachu]

ya in some way...you could say the same for gas cars.... no too far from now most cars will be electric.... and needless to say there will be no gears... neither manual nor automatic...

[2+3=5]

YOLO pick what YOU want to drive

[MUFCbmwbear]

After a week with the car, I'm glad i went manual. Took a few days to get used to it and the seating position.

[Gaviin]

The MT feels great in the M235i. Much more refined than my old 97 M3 but still precise. The throws may be a tad longer, but I did have a short-shift kit on the M3, so not an entirely fair comparison. Either way, the 2 feels very very good.

[2msport]

It looks like the regrets are about even, maybe you guys should trade cars

[ciwhamc]

Originally Posted by G228msport

It looks like the regrets are about even, maybe you guys should trade cars

I like that.

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

It's about the enjoyment of driver involvement and not letting technology increasingly take over the role of the driver.

Probably the same quote given by the guy below when electric starters came along…

Both can be very fun to drive. Each should pick his/her own preference, but both sides of my conscience approve of A/T:

(sensible/angel): It's easier and get's better mpg
(fun/devil): It's quicker

It's why Porsche and other long-standing sports car mfrs are gently closing up shop on manual gearbox options. I believe that something like only 9% of all cars sold are manual anymore. I think it's great that BMW gives enthusiasts the choice on the 2 series (with no cost penalty either way). But I do believe that we'll see the end of the gearshift in our lifetime.

Enjoy while you still can.

[Ian_Mark]

im happy with the m/t on my msport 228i. big difference compared to my 05sti thats sitting back stateside. swapped out the stock shift knob for the m performance for a better feel.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

Probably the same quote given by the guy below when electric starters came along…

Both can be very fun to drive. Each should pick his/her own preference, but both sides of my conscience approve of A/T:

(sensible/angel): It's easier and get's better mpg
(fun/devil): It's quicker

It's why Porsche and other long-standing sports car mfrs are gently closing up shop on manual gearbox options. I believe that something like only 9% of all cars sold are manual anymore. I think it's great that BMW gives enthusiasts the choice on the 2 series (with no cost penalty either way). But I do believe that we'll see the end of the gearshift in our lifetime.

Enjoy while you still can.

I'd just like to know how you got my picture.......

This is attitudinal and maybe a touch generational, but consider:

We have a generation who learned on calculators and can't do math in their heads. They also cannot write with a pen, having spent a lifetime doing little more than typing. We have pilots who learned on highly automated cockpits and can't keep a plane from plunging into the Atlantic or the seawall at SFO because they didn't have innate skill to fly manually.

Yes, there is a never-ending societal trend to automation and technology, but that doesn't mean it's all good. Why has human skill become of such little inherent worth? When cars became mobile video games, with movies on the center stack screen and thumbs for pretend manual shifting, one group cheered while another shook their collective heads.

Your conscience exercise could be easily recreated with different outcomes....such is the nature of subjectivity. In a world where McDonald's is increasingly thought of as food, the appreciation for the more demanding solutions will continue to dwindle out of existence. Ever eat a fruit or vegetable you just picked with your own hands? Tastes better....and such is the nature of human subjective experience. As long as I'm alive, I will look for the experiences which reward me and my sense of accomplishment. Damn the automatics! Full speed ahead!

Have a great day!

[one1er]

This wouldn't be an issue at all if I could test-drive them both, but I can't get even 1 of them (M235i).
I have these constant sways in opinion for this or that reason, and the more I think, the worse...
FFF...................!!!!

[williewonkerz]

Personally, based on my experience driving RWD and BMWs in the winter, I am not a fan of autos. Too many times the tranny will shift either up or down and inevitably upset the power and then the car just enough. Since getting a manual I find it much easier to drive in the winter.

I suspect with the newer cars I could put it in manual mode but it means having to always do it.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by williewonkerz

Personally, based on my experience driving RWD and BMWs in the winter, I am not a fan of autos. Too many times the tranny will shift either up or down and inevitably upset the power and then the car just enough. Since getting a manual I find it much easier to drive in the winter.

I suspect with the newer cars I could put it in manual mode but it means having to always do it.

even with the auto you can always drive in M mode if you want and it won't shift neither up or down...unless you come to a full stop to avoid stalling

[farshman]

Originally Posted by MUFCbmwbear

After a week with the car, I'm glad i went manual. Took a few days to get used to it and the seating position.

Curious, how does the Auto Start-Stop function feel in the manual. i test drove an automatic and it was a completely new to experience to me, i've never had that in a car before but am unsure how it actually works in a manual. If I'm neutral at a stop at a redlight and then go to first gear and take off would it feel different with that function enabled than the countless manual cars I've had in the past?