[3rdcoast228i]

Originally Posted by M235ForNow

That would a move in the opposite direction from the issue I brought up originally. I was interested for less power, not more.

Now if you'd said an E46 ZHP, that I could get behind it.

So basically you want a car that's well balanced that you can rev out a little bit with traction control/stability control relaxed (IE sport+) and not end up off road?

That's how I feel about my 228i, nimble, and it gets amazing gas mileage.

I really want an e46 330i coupe as my first m/t car.

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by SteveInfante

I have had my 228 6MT for over 61K miles and love this car more than any other I've owned. Clutch engagement point is just about right for my seating position. I've been Stage 1 BMS tuned for over 10K miles and it made it significantly more fun and didn't hit my mileage at all. I'm running the square 17x7" mesh wheels with 215/45/17 in place of the RF's and it made a big difference as well. Someday when this thing either dies or I give it to my son I will most likely get another. I love the terra leather but wish I had the Sport seats. Premium, cold weather, and lighting are the packages I have.

Thanks for the feedback! I agree on sport seats - they've been in every bimmer I've owned. And now they come standard!

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by 3rdcoast228i

So basically you want a car that's well balanced that you can rev out a little bit with traction control/stability control relaxed (IE sport+) and not end up off road?

That's how I feel about my 228i, nimble, and it gets amazing gas mileage.

I really want an e46 330i coupe as my first m/t car.

Precisely so :-)

E46 330i with ZHP and you're in heaven!

[msej449]

Originally Posted by M235ForNow

Is your 235 a manual or 8 speed?

It's a Sports 8-Speed. I understand the manual/auto dilemma, but I've had a manual Lotus Elise 111S and a Porche Carrera S4, and that was enough. I briefly switched back to a manual in my Audi A3 2.0L Turbo Sportsback Sline and that was a disaster - I got really fed up with it and went back to an auto straight away. Although a BMW manual box should be better than the Audi.

Just out of interest, have you tried using the M235i in full manual mode for a few days, just to see how you feel about it? I did this early on, more to get myself familiar with the engine's full 'envelope'. I was happy to go back to auto, but I do now use full manual on the 8AF more often than before.

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by msej449

It's a Sports 8-Speed. I understand the manual/auto dilemma, but I've had a manual Lotus Elise 111S and a Porche Carrera S4, and that was enough. I briefly switched back to a manual in my Audi A3 2.0L Turbo Sportsback Sline and that was a disaster - I got really fed up with it and went back to an auto straight away. Although a BMW manual box should be better than the Audi.

Just out of interest, have you tried using the M235i in full manual mode for a few days, just to see how you feel about it? I did this early on, more to get myself familiar with the engine's full 'envelope'. I was happy to go back to auto, but I do now use full manual on the 8AF more often than before.

Not days but a good bit. I'm not even sure how much of a "must have" a MT is, to be honest, as I've had decades of time with them (which could be considered to be enough) and my wife would definitely prefer auto by a ton. The only reason for the manual is the fun factor, and perhaps slightly lower long-term service costs, so nothing is set in stone.

[B_Rice]

Do you already have a daily driver? Having a 2 seat convertible as your only car can be kind of shitty.

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by B_Rice

Do you already have a daily driver? Having a 2 seat convertible as your only car can be kind of shitty.

Wife's car. Lived with Z3's and z4 for 10 years as DD. Worked out fine for the most part. Of course, now we have a dog so longer trips wouldn't work in a 2 seater.

[B_Rice]

Originally Posted by M235ForNow

Wife's car. Lived with Z3's and z4 for 10 years as DD. Worked out fine for the most part. Of course, now we have a dog so longer trips wouldn't work in a 2 seater.

Well if you're looking for driving purity and cargo room isn't a issue, I'd go ND or maybe a used s2000.

[ExZHP]

Originally Posted by M235ForNow

That would a move in the opposite direction from the issue I brought up originally. I was interested for less power, not more.

Now if you'd said an E46 ZHP, that I could get behind it.

I just sold my '05 ZHP MT in May in exchange for the 228i MSport AT. It was a unicorn; only 27 sold in the US with the config I had. But I was worried about the mounting the cost of maintenance for the ageing engine plus recent back injuries made driving MT in traffic a bit too troublesome. I still miss the ZHP lots, but the 228i proved to be a worthy replacement. I am still getting used to the turbo lag, and having AT doesn't exactly make the driving experience more fun, but the 228i is a beast in its own right, especially with Sport mode and a mod or two (yet to come). 228i, being the "budget" beemer lacks the refinement of the ZHP, but it's still an extremely engaging car to drive. I did test drive the M235, but the deal I got for the 228i was too good to pass on, and for the daily urban/suburban driving, M235i is an overkill IMHO.

[3rdcoast228i]

Originally Posted by ExZHP

I just sold my '05 ZHP MT in May in exchange for the 228i MSport AT. It was a unicorn; only 27 sold in the US with the config I had. But I was worried about the mounting the cost of maintenance for the ageing engine plus recent back injuries made driving MT in traffic a bit too troublesome. I still miss the ZHP lots, but the 228i proved to be a worthy replacement. I am still getting used to the turbo lag, and having AT doesn't exactly make the driving experience more fun, but the 228i is a beast in its own right, especially with Sport mode and a mod or two (yet to come). 228i, being the "budget" beemer lacks the refinement of the ZHP, but it's still an extremely engaging car to drive. I did test drive the M235, but the deal I got for the 228i was too good to pass on, and for the daily urban/suburban driving, M235i is an overkill IMHO.

Thanks for the comparison! I would be going into a e46 purchase knowing the engine and trany would likely need a rebuilt at some point. I have a big shop and it would be a project for me.

330i coupe m/t is hard to find in my area. It would be really hard to find ZHP. I think I would want something with more commonly available parts anyway. I'm in no hurry, keeping my eyes open though.

[caycep]

well....228i/230i + ND = roughly price of a 235/240i....

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by caycep

well....228i/230i + ND = roughly price of a 235/240i....

VERY roughly ;-)

[wanofakind01]

Originally Posted by M235ForNow

VERY roughly ;-)

lol I say get both as well, getting two slightly used ones with the ND as a 6MT. The new ND is a ton of fun to drive, and you really would want to go with the club trim anyway as it has the LSD, bbs, brembo, etc. I cross shopped the ND as well, still have a soft spot for it (prefer soft top over the RF).

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by wanofakind01

lol I say get both as well, getting two slightly used ones with the ND as a 6MT. The new ND is a ton of fun to drive, and you really would want to go with the club trim anyway as it has the LSD, bbs, brembo, etc. I cross shopped the ND as well, still have a soft spot for it (prefer soft top over the RF).

it's weird in that I've owned two Z3's and a Z4, so you'd think I'm fine with 2 seaters. And Boxter and Vettes are only 2 seaters. Yet somehow, the extreme smallness of the ND has crossed some sort of mental line. I need to drive one for a day I think. I'm especially thinking of my wife and that TINY passenger footwell. We used to take day drives to wine country in my Z's and I'm not at all certain that it'd be viable (comfortably) in the ND. Note that the Z3 (a small car for sure) was 158 inches long. The ND is only 154. SMALLLLLL.

[wanofakind01]

Originally Posted by M235ForNow

it's weird in that I've owned two Z3's and a Z4, so you'd think I'm fine with 2 seaters. And Boxter and Vettes are only 2 seaters. Yet somehow, the extreme smallness of the ND has crossed some sort of mental line. I need to drive one for a day I think. I'm especially thinking of my wife and that TINY passenger footwell. We used to take day drives to wine country in my Z's and I'm not at all certain that it'd be viable (comfortably) in the ND. Note that the Z3 (a small car for sure) was 158 inches long. The ND is only 154. SMALLLLLL.

Agree you need to test drive...it's about a half ton weight difference from the z4. You definitely feel the difference in weight and maneuverability. I test drove the ND right after an autox session with my m235 and I felt it was on a different level (not necessarily a higher level tho). Complete confidence in where the backend was going, and I could use the entire torque range and hp to control it. I have no doubt it'll make you smile, just a matter of how well it would suit your living situation.

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by wanofakind01

Agree you need to test drive...it's about a half ton weight difference from the z4. You definitely feel the difference in weight and maneuverability. I test drove the ND right after an autox session with my m235 and I felt it was on a different level (not necessarily a higher level tho). Complete confidence in where the backend was going, and I could use the entire torque range and hp to control it. I have no doubt it'll make you smile, just a matter of how well it would suit your living situation.

Just noticed your cars. Interesting. Obviously I'm in a 235 right now and we're looking for a new vehicle for my wife. X1 was on the list (as is X3, 3er wagon, A4 wagon, Q3 and Q5). It would be the vehicle for gardening/floral stuff (her passion) as well as the big trip-mobile to Mendocino and other vacation environs. How do you like the X1?

[wanofakind01]

Originally Posted by M235ForNow

Just noticed your cars. Interesting. Obviously I'm in a 235 right now and we're looking for a new vehicle for my wife. X1 was on the list (as is X3, 3er wagon, A4 wagon, Q3 and Q5). It would be the vehicle for gardening/floral stuff (her passion) as well as the big trip-mobile to Mendocino and other vacation environs. How do you like the X1?

I actually just sold the m235, awaiting delivery for an m2 in early aug =)

I bought my wife the f48 x1, honestly it was a pleasant surprise to me. Cabin room is probably the most surprising of all, comparable to the outgoing x3, which is deceiving considering it's the younger sibling but much more handsome. Storage space is plentiful, adjustable back seats really provide more comfort and leg room. Drives like a BMW, nimble and maneuverable in all the right places contrary to its front wheel bias, but AWD is a plus.

I'm not a fan of audi base 2.0T engines with my experience with all the turbo lag whenever I rent with Silvercar and their A4's. Computer seems confused all the time with what you want it to do, especially in times when you can't afford that extra second delay. I also personally don't consider the Q3 to be in the same class either, it's noticeably smaller (and a little awkward like the prev X1).

Highly recommend the x1, and really encourage people not to overlook it. It's a pleasant place to be when you're sitting in the driver seat. And the amount of space you get for storage will definitely surprise you (love the hidden trunk space where we can avoid a lot of clutter).

[Maynard]

I cross-shopped Miatas against the 2, and found them all to be noisier, but you should check out the NC version of the Miata if you are still into that - noticeably larger than the ND, and a bit more polished (they went 'back to the roots' with the ND). Really fun, but I needed a DD and it would get old fast. But probably the nicest shifting trans I've ever driven. The only auto-re-matching I've driven was the 370Z, and it was interesting but sometimes unsettling; definitely don't spring for a MT 2 series unless you love the auto-rev feature, as I don't think you can turn it off.

I personally DID notice the heavier weight on the 235, and much of selecting the 228 vs 235 was that I didn't need the extra power and wanted the more nimble feel - but it would be trivial compared to the Miata-vs-2series difference; you can see from this forum that others didn't notice the difference at all, and it certainly is less noticeable than the power differential between them (I just felt the 228 was more than plenty to risk my license, so the 6 was overkill).

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by Maynard

I cross-shopped Miatas against the 2, and found them all to be noisier, but you should check out the NC version of the Miata if you are still into that - noticeably larger than the ND, and a bit more polished (they went 'back to the roots' with the ND). Really fun, but I needed a DD and it would get old fast. But probably the nicest shifting trans I've ever driven. The only auto-re-matching I've driven was the 370Z, and it was interesting but sometimes unsettling; definitely don't spring for a MT 2 series unless you love the auto-rev feature, as I don't think you can turn it off.

I personally DID notice the heavier weight on the 235, and much of selecting the 228 vs 235 was that I didn't need the extra power and wanted the more nimble feel - but it would be trivial compared to the Miata-vs-2series difference; you can see from this forum that others didn't notice the difference at all, and it certainly is less noticeable than the power differential between them (I just felt the 228 was more than plenty to risk my license, so the 6 was overkill).

Bizarrely, I got very intense knee pain upon exiting an NC after an hour's spirited drive. A check of the forums showed that I'm not unique in that. There are many mentions of a "pedal mod". But I truly have no interest in buying a car that I apparently can't drive comfortably in the hope that modifying the pedals would help. Liked the car a lot in all other regards.

I decided not to buy an older Z3-M because of the "more power than I need" factor and so that's definitely factoring strongly into my "230 or 240" decisioning. Going to be testing out the 230 this week to see whether I find the turbo lag to be objectionable or not.

[Maynard]

Make sure to demo it in both sport and comfort. I don't find the lag really bad, but more noticeable in comfort mode, for sure. The only time I've noticed it is at fairly low revs, when going from near stopped to acceleration (usually in traffic, making a last minute lane change or getting out of somebody's way). That table-top torque curve is really something else - you could get by with an old 3-on-the-tree with this if you had to, it is always on the curve.

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by Maynard

Make sure to demo it in both sport and comfort. I don't find the lag really bad, but more noticeable in comfort mode, for sure. The only time I've noticed it is at fairly low revs, when going from near stopped to acceleration (usually in traffic, making a last minute lane change or getting out of somebody's way). That table-top torque curve is really something else - you could get by with an old 3-on-the-tree with this if you had to, it is always on the curve.

Oh, for sure. Same with my 235. And that's my standard test - low speed to "let's get going" for merges. Easy to test. I'll be using the paddles as well, in addition to letting the box do its thing.

[Xiaoxi]

I have both the M235i and the Miata (but NB), both manuals.

Some days, the Miata is honestly more fun and rewarding to drive. The shift and clutch is not nearly as refined as the BMW though, but I can forgive that on a 20 year old car. It is way more engaging to drive...the response is absolutely sublime (though I don't have any drive time in the ND). The Miata is more fun as a daily but the M235i is more satisfying for other occasions.

with that said... people have no idea what nimble is until they drive a Miata. F22 is a boat in comparison.