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      09-13-2017, 01:16 PM   #67
wanofakind01
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Yes, I hate smiling. And then I made the mistake again...and again.
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      09-15-2017, 09:47 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD1953 View Post
I know what you mean.....................

Today I dropped of my base 228i 6MT coupe off @ the dealer for a 30,000 service.

I requested a 328i sedan for a loaner...I got 3,300 mile 330i loaner xdrive.

I have the loaner overnight and put about 60 miles on it today.

The 330i feels big/heavy on the road compared to my 228i.

I think it is the xdrive in the 330i compared to the to the RWD 228i.

The 330i is quick, nice auto trans....but I kept looking for the clutch with my L leg most of the day !

I'll stay with a 6MT transmission. I wouldn't mind having the two back doors of the sedan !
Followup:

I had the 330i xdrive for an additional day of driving.

I put the 8 speed through it's paces using the manual mode on the gear shifter. With some practice you can easily shift the 8 speed auto as a 8MT without using your left leg.

I'll consider an auto next time around.
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      09-15-2017, 10:54 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD1953 View Post
With some practice you can easily shift the 8 speed auto as a 8MT without using your left leg.
But, that's part of the point....giving your left leg something to do to so it and the part of the brain involved can stay more active! Avoid leg boredom!
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      09-16-2017, 03:20 AM   #70
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No regrets at all, except when sitting in bumper to bumper traffic. This was my first manual car so going through the learning process of properly downshift/heel toe was frustrating, the satisfaction of getting the downshifts perfect never gets old. Now that im able to do it perfectly on a consistent basis there is no other way i would have this car. I test drove an automatic for a day and it was definitely quicker. It was fun at the begining, but quickly grew bored of it. Manual all the way!!
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      12-16-2017, 10:46 AM   #71
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No regrets at all in my 2017 230i even with having to wait 1-2 seconds on upshifts for revs to come back down to shift smoothly into the next gear. I just wish there were a way to code out this rev hang on upshifts. Rev-matching on downshifts is very cool though.
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      12-16-2017, 11:19 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanofakind01 View Post
Yes, I hate smiling. And then I made the mistake again...and again.
Yea, smiling is for suckers!

For a DD 12mo/yr car, auto/DCT is the way to go, for me. I have an auto in my pickup so that's enough, lol

For a "fun" car, MT is the only way to go, imo.. There's something about an i6 with long gearing, and a turbo to pull it all the way from 2000-6500rpm that you just can't absorb, with a cut down 8spd gearing setup.. It's intoxicating, and every time I get behind the wheel I remind myself how happy I am to have made the decision to go MT, in this car. I've had dual clutches for the 6-7 years prior to owning this car, and glad I found an analog car, like the m235 with RWD, LSD, MT. Wouldn't switch unless it was an M235iR
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      12-16-2017, 12:02 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jet987 View Post
No regrets at all in my 2017 230i even with having to wait 1-2 seconds on upshifts for revs to come back down to shift smoothly into the next gear. I just wish there were a way to code out this rev hang on upshifts. Rev-matching on downshifts is very cool though.
My M235 hardly has any rev hang, but I see lots of complaints about it in the 4 banger cars and have seen videos of it as well. I wonder why the 4 bangers have it so much worse?
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      12-16-2017, 12:13 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
My M235 hardly has any rev hang, but I see lots of complaints about it in the 4 banger cars and have seen videos of it as well. I wonder why the 4 bangers have it so much worse?
Something in the tuning, for sure. The 2.0t VW's I owned suffered from this as well, but only until they deleted the MAF on the MK7.. May be to do with less rotating mass, as well?
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      12-16-2017, 01:30 PM   #75
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no regrets at all. BUT I always "need" one 3 pedal car around or that response might be different.

The 8 sp AT in the 235 (and 335 my wife drives) is a marvel BUT I still am in the group that subscribes to 3 pedal vehicles are more involving even if the current ATs and DCTs shift faster than humans.
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      12-16-2017, 02:05 PM   #76
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Hell no. And the years of 6mts being offered are limited.
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      12-17-2017, 10:53 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jet987 View Post
No regrets at all in my 2017 230i even with having to wait 1-2 seconds on upshifts for revs to come back down to shift smoothly into the next gear. I just wish there were a way to code out this rev hang on upshifts. Rev-matching on downshifts is very cool though.
My '16 WRX had the same rev hang issue, which I couldn't stand at first after coming out of a 997.1 Carrera S, but I quickly learned how to shift without the rev-hang getting in the way. The trick is to simply shift as you normally would, but then you have to finesse the clutch pedal as you let it out through the rev-hang. In other words, ignore rev hang and slip the clutch a bit to bring RPMs down smoothly through the rev-hang period without getting any head-jerk. Just as fast and smooth once you get used to shifting like this.

Also, rev-hang is a newer phenomenon seen mostly in turbo 4 cylinder cars due to newer emissions regulations. There are more emissions when coming off the throttle suddenly, leaving more unburned fuel to pass through. Rev-hang essentially helps to burn all the fuel when coming off the throttle suddenly at the expensive of slightly trickier (although somehow more satisfying) shifting procedure and slightly higher clutch wear.

Oh yeah, my incoming m240i is MT/RWD. Hell no, I will not regret the decision to go MT on this car!! I'll reserve the 8AT for my next DD replacement in a few years. The m240i is my pleasure-only car, so wouldn't be anything but a MT.
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      12-17-2017, 11:17 AM   #78
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On the slippery roads, I like to stay locked in a gear and while the AT can do that, on those days an MT would be nice. On the other hand I'd never give up the xDrive for that, as it's a key component in my compromise to avoid having two cars. Tragic, having to compromise on an M240i convertible but we learn to deal with these things.
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      12-17-2017, 11:42 AM   #79
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I only bought the AT because my left knee is toast. Once it's replaced & healed, back to MT.
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      12-17-2017, 12:45 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
The trick is to simply shift as you normally would, but then you have to finesse the clutch pedal as you let it out through the rev-hang. In other words, ignore rev hang and slip the clutch a bit to bring RPMs down smoothly through the rev-hang period without getting any head-jerk. Just as fast and smooth once you get used to shifting like this.
The problem with this strategy is that every time you slow down the engine with the clutch you heat up the clutch a bit. During enthusiastic driving on twisty roads I shift several times a minute and the clutch eventually gets hot enough to stink, which is not good. The flip side is that engines with hanging throttle often also have a throttle that is unresponsive to mild blips so during downshifts it takes half throttle to get any rev rise in the half second between gears, and you wind up overshooting the revs and putting more heat into the clutch. This was an e46 MT, and the only solution I found was to do 2 second gearshifts, which killed a lot of the fun.

Unfortunately the nearest M240i manual was six hours away with no certainty that I would get a test drive since obviously I wouldn't be buying there. (Apparently in this part of the world dealers only have a MT in stock if someone backs out of a factory order.) I wasn't going to risk having these problems with poor throttle response in a car I hope to keep for 10 years, so I ordered the automatic. I consoled myself by reminding myself I have clutches on my bikes.
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      12-17-2017, 03:49 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertw View Post
The problem with this strategy is that every time you slow down the engine with the clutch you heat up the clutch a bit. During enthusiastic driving on twisty roads I shift several times a minute and the clutch eventually gets hot enough to stink, which is not good. The flip side is that engines with hanging throttle often also have a throttle that is unresponsive to mild blips so during downshifts it takes half throttle to get any rev rise in the half second between gears, and you wind up overshooting the revs and putting more heat into the clutch. This was an e46 MT, and the only solution I found was to do 2 second gearshifts, which killed a lot of the fun.

Unfortunately the nearest M240i manual was six hours away with no certainty that I would get a test drive since obviously I wouldn't be buying there. (Apparently in this part of the world dealers only have a MT in stock if someone backs out of a factory order.) I wasn't going to risk having these problems with poor throttle response in a car I hope to keep for 10 years, so I ordered the automatic. I consoled myself by reminding myself I have clutches on my bikes.
I suppose it could depend on the car some. I tracked my rev-hanging WRX @ VIR and never had any funny smells from the clutch. That car begged to be driven hard and was clearly designed to work with slipping the clutch a bit between gears. That said, the engine DID start to overheat eventually and it went into an electronically-controlled limp mode (wouldn't let RPM rise past a certain level), so that car was far from a purpose-built track car...
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      12-17-2017, 07:16 PM   #82
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My wife certainly would have preferred I'd have gotten the AT, and because I wanted to stay married another 30 years along with more frequent bumper to bumper commuting, I was fully prepared to do so when I traded my MINI Cooper S with a 6 MT for something new. Actually, the only reason I purchased my m235i when I did was because it was a convertible with the 6 MT and thus I was able to purchase it at a very deep discount because it had been in the dealership's inventory for more than 15 months. I am so glad everything worked out the way it did. I have driven a few service loaners with the AT and it is a great transmission, but I really prefer my 6 MT. It is incredibly smooth and well mated to the N55. The occasional bumper to bumper traffic is not a problem. There are no regrets here at all. Now I just need a similar situation to happen when I finally decide I replace my m235i someday with a Boxster S or M4.
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      12-17-2017, 07:54 PM   #83
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Hmmm....absolutely not!
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      12-18-2017, 01:13 PM   #84
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No regrets on the 6MT in M235i at all either. Love the fact that you can rev at will, play with the engine and clutch release/interplay, etc. I also love the new hold on hill feature. I did also drive the 228i with 6MT and that was a no-go for me because of the rev hang which feels like driving a bus. VW 2.0 Turbos have this same hateful feeling making a manual in those care not too fun either.
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      12-21-2017, 09:17 AM   #85
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Swapping the 8AT for a 6MT

Every sports car I have owned before came with a MT and the debate about MT or AT went back and forth for a while before I pulled the trigger. One of the core reasons I opted for the 8AT instead of a 6MT for the recent 2018 M240i purchase was for a future vehicle swap / hand-off to the wife. My plan is in 2 to 3 years when the wife’s current ride needs replacement and a bit more scratch is in the bank, the current BIMMER gets an upgrade in the usage department from a weekend only fun car to the wife’s daily driver / top-down day driver. Now I have a reason to buy another weekend only fun car, this time I’ll splurge just a bit more for a true “M” coupe with a 6MT.
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      12-21-2017, 10:14 AM   #86
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This is my first automatic (other than my truck) and I do not regret it one bit. If I lived out in the country I would probably gotten another manual.

I do love the speed and tech of the 8AT.

Previous cars (all manual)
Turbo Eclipse
SRT4
RX8
S2000
EvoX
Audi TT
Infinity G37
Nismo 370z

I think that's all of them. Tracked all of them. I've earned my right to an automatic haha.
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      12-21-2017, 02:21 PM   #87
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^^ Agree, if I were living in a large city, with regular commutes/traffic, 8AT/RWD would have been my choice.
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      12-22-2017, 07:53 AM   #88
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I'm sure that a manual can be fun, holding it a gear to maximize torque and noise but as one poster said you can do that in the auto also. Gear ratios are closer but manual function does work well. I found that it takes some time to really learn how to drive it and use it to get the most out of it. It's not just stomping on the gas. "This isn't your fathers Oldsmobile."

Both are tremendous transmissions but it takes time to learn how to drive them and get proficient with them. If your not having fun with either your not trying hard enough.
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