[raysspl]

Well that's pretty neat!

[angelbones]

Originally Posted by blanquito

There goes my resale value...

I was actually thinking the about that as well. Definitely glad I'm leasing because if I went to trade now, I'd probably take a bigger beating than normal.

[Modawg]

Sweet, I am currently #3 on the 240i waiting list at my dealer, can't wait to do a ED some time next year! LOL
.....sorry, couldn't resist.

In all seriousness, this car does have me thinking about my future M2. I currently drive a convertible 335i ('11) and since a few weeks I have been able to drive with the top down and realized how much I would miss that on the M2. Also, AWD is something I truly miss a few months out of the year.
I am also a chicken when it comes to driving fast, don't want to get too many tickets as I drive for my job. Another thing is lease, I do want to lease my next BMW as I get bored with cars after 2/3 years and I DON'T want to own a beamer out of warranty. That scares me way to much. All these things have me thinking about this for a little bit.
However, I do like the body style of the M2 way more than the 240i. Also, not quite sure about a soft top vs. hard top convertible. Oh well, I have my ED scheduled for December so I have a few months to decide. And BMW my decide for me anyway as I am not even sure if I can get my hands on a M2 by that time.

[angelbones]

Ok, this is going to date me, although there have been several remakes of the song: Money, Money, Money,....Muhhney. (I.e., "For the Love of Money" by the O'Jays.). How big of a price increase are we talking?? I know it's speculation, but just discussing.

[m34m]

It's a shame BMW hasn't maintained a reasonable performance gap between M models and mainstream consumer grade models. I realize some will argue there is still a gap but let's face it, it's smaller than ever. A 0-60 time of 4.2s used to be supercar territory ten years ago and today a plain vanilla BMW does that only a tenth or two off an M car. How do they intend to maintain differentiation for M division particularly with the proliferation of M sport packages for mainstream models? I'm confused and a little disappointed. I'm still on the list for an M2 but not feeling so great about it with news like this. Fender and quarter panel flares can only go so far.

[kdog26372]

Ok good, Adem is an admitted M2 fanboy, glad to put that part of this thread to rest.

In regards to M240i vs M2 a case can be made for either one depending on what you'll be doing with the car. The M2 is designed to be tracked with better suspension and brakes and is a lighter car, if you won't be heading to the track then you most likely won't feel those improvements at the limit the M2 would provide and thus unless you like the wider look and lower volume you'd see on the street, then the extra cost may not make sense, but it could to some I'm sure. I'd gather most M3/M4 owners didn't track the last generation version which was about identical in the straights as the 335i and plenty of happy drivers there.

The new Audi S3 is quicker than the S4 yet $15k cheaper; this happens outside of BMW too, so no big deal. Nice to have choices. I will say I'm glad I did Owner's Choice lease thing on my M235i as I'd agree the resale market in a couple years won't be so hot for my ride. Some of the power increases stated by BMW probably aren't even accurate. I mean they underrate all the time. I don't see how adding 40 lb-ft of torque in an AWD 2 series only nets .2 second improvement. Most stage 1 tunes at about 50 and get 1/2 second improvement. Either way, nice to have options and it sounds like new motor setup has some nice tuning potential on the upside whereas the current N55 seems to be pretty limited without changing turbo.

[aerostar]

Originally Posted by angelbones

Ok, this is going to date me, although there have been several remakes of the song: Money, Money, Money,....Muhhney. (I.e., "For the Love of Money" by the O'Jays.). How big of a price increase are we talking?? I know it's speculation, but just discussing.

Probably not much. But then again, at the same time that mandatory rear view camera might come into play and we all know BMW likes to have $1,900 for it.

[m34m]

It's a shame BMW hasn't maintained a reasonable performance gap between M models and mainstream consumer grade models. I realize some will argue there is still a gap but let's face it, it's smaller than ever. A 0-60 time of 4.2s used to be supercar territory ten years ago and today a plain vanilla BMW does that only a tenth or two off an M car. How do they intend to maintain differentiation for M division particularly with the proliferation of M sport packages for mainstream models? I'm confused and a little disappointed. I'm still on the list for an M2 but not feeling so great about it with news like this. Fender and quarter panel flares can only go so far.

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by m34m

It's a shame BMW hasn't maintained a reasonable performance gap between M models and mainstream consumer grade models. I realize some will argue there is still a gap but let's face it, it's smaller than ever. A 0-60 time of 4.2s used to be supercar territory ten years ago and today a plain vanilla BMW does that only a tenth or two off an M car. How do they intend to maintain differentiation for M division particularly with the proliferation of M sport packages for mainstream models? I'm confused and a little disappointed. I'm still on the list for an M2 but not feeling so great about it with news like this. Fender and quarter panel flares can only go so far.

Back in the E36 era, the US market 3.2L (1996+) M3 produced 240hp/240tq while the 325i made 189hp and the 328i made 190hp/210tq. The M3 was only 0.5s quicker 0-60 than the 328i. Yes, we're talking smaller numbers, but that was really close - 30tq...

In the E46 and E92 era, the hp gap widened. Still wide for the F30/F80.

Once you get into bigger HP and more weight, it gets harder to widen the acceleration gap. You need more and more power.

[M2 CSL]

Originally Posted by aerostar

Pretty sure it's exactly how fanboy logic works.

Your statement was incoherent and makes no sense (as proven by two posters who had no idea WTF you're talking about). I don't understand what's so tough to get about it that you're a M2 fanboy. It's not a negative thing, you're just always on the M2's side which is understandable as you own one.

You literally said BMW decided to make less M2's and fill the void it created by making a similarly performing M240i. Why would any company do that?

And then after someone pointed out that what you said was ridiculous you said you don't even believe it yourself.

My opinion is that almost everyone here is over thinking and over complicating things.

The M2 is a very very different animal than the M240i.

So the premise that one is a substitute for the other or productions numbers here go there, up, down all around, marketing formulas bottom lines bean counters vs M engineers fanboys and purists to the chocolate waterfalls and candy rainbows is all nonsense.

People who understand the differences, and want the difference will find a way to obtain a M2. They are and will continue to be obtainable.

Everyone else can get a 240i or whatever they want.

[Jono2112]

If I didn't have a 2015 M235i, I would get one of the last 2016 models if the dealer will deal. You could save a few thousand and in the U.S. you get 3 years service covered, because in 2017 the service is only covers 2 years for your M240i and doesn't cover brakes. If you want to race, the M2 will still handle better. I like having the adaptive suspension in the M235i.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

Back in the E36 era, the US market 3.2L (1996+) M3 produced 240hp/240tq while the 325i made 189hp and the 328i made 190hp/210tq. The M3 was only 0.5s quicker 0-60 than the 328i. Yes, we're talking smaller numbers, but that was really close - 30tq...

In the E46 and E92 era, the hp gap widened. Still wide for the F30/F80.

Once you get into bigger HP and more weight, it gets harder to widen the acceleration gap. You need more and more power.

This is an important point. When you get down around 4s 0-60, you really start getting in to an area where it takes a lot to improve your time. Even at 4.5s, it's hard to get consistent runs out of a RWD car. Unless you're running drag radials on a prepped track, traction is the limiting factor.

One point of contention though, the E92 M3 was introduced in 2008. At that time, the 335i was available with the N54 engine. The gap in HP went up, but the difference in 0-60 times (which is what everyone seems so focused on) didn't widen much at all. If anything, it tightened up.

The massive difference between an M-car and a normal series production comes when you start to go around corners. The difference between my 135i and the M3 was night and day, and the 135i was a fun little car. I thought I might go to an M235i after my M3, because I don't get many opportunities to really exploit the M3, but there's no going back. It's not about straight-line performance.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Ummm2

My opinion is that almost everyone here is over thinking and over complicating things.

The M2 is a very very different animal than the M240i.

So the premise that one is a substitute for the other or productions numbers here go there, up, down all around, marketing formulas bottom lines bean counters vs M engineers fanboys and purists to the chocolate waterfalls and candy rainbows is all nonsense.

People who understand the differences, and want the difference will find a way to obtain a M2. They are and will continue to be obtainable.

Everyone else can get a 240i or whatever they want.

You had me at chocolate waterfalls.

[Dylan86]

I guess if I had a 2.0L engine I'd sleep better at night with a 230i badge? :\

[Powaup]

The question is, when will the F87 M2 get the new engine? it won't make sense for bmw to hang on to a bunch of N55s just for the M2 a few years from now

[Lucky13]

I think its so frickin funny how they had to have a "will the M2 kill the M235" thread on the M2 site. Can we now start a "will the M240 kill the M2 thread". I said days ago on the M2 thread that the M2 will have zero negative impact on the M235 because of lack of availability and such limited options as colors and no interior options, sun roofs etc. I said that the M2 would actually increase all 2 series sales, face it BMW priced the M2 hot to create awareness and buzz and they can't get their standard profit on them. Why would BMW want to sell a lot of M2's at 9% Gross Profit if it comes from M4 sales at 15% plus Gross Profit. BMW is profit driven not sales driven, their goal us to make over 9%.

Regarding engine changes, I've been buying BMW's since late 1994 and they have made engine changes in basically every model I have bought. We have known the M240 was coming for over a year and shit happens, just enjoy if you own the M235 its a great car.

[m34m]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

Back in the E36 era, the US market 3.2L (1996+) M3 produced 240hp/240tq while the 325i made 189hp and the 328i made 190hp/210tq. The M3 was only 0.5s quicker 0-60 than the 328i. Yes, we're talking smaller numbers, but that was really close - 30tq...

In the E46 and E92 era, the hp gap widened. Still wide for the F30/F80.

Once you get into bigger HP and more weight, it gets harder to widen the acceleration gap. You need more and more power.

I don't need selling I have an E92 M3 and waiting on an M2. I get the added performance benefits and track capability of an M. I'm simply bemoaning the dilution of the M brand via "M sport" packages and strong performance numbers from the underlings that can't be denied or downplayed. I get that an M is an M and I'm not fixated on simpleton 0-60 times but man those lesser models do perform.

[Rong]

I have done this and added S1 Dinan pck and cancelled my M2 order, long wait and bad leasing program, Expecting mine to arrive early June
Still missing LSD, slightly better breaks, M aluminum suspension and wider tires/stance

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by m34m

I don't need selling I have an E92 M3 and waiting on an M2. I get the added performance benefits and track capability of an M. I'm simply bemoaning the dilution of the M brand via "M sport" packages and strong performance numbers from the underlings that can't be denied or downplayed. I get that an M is an M and I'm not fixated on simpleton 0-60 times but man those lesser models do perform.

Nah man, wasn't trying to sell you. Just extending your bemoaning.

I've had M and non-M models, as well as "is" models. Honestly, for what it's worth, the M235i feels special. It has just a bit of that M magic, despite not being a "real" M car. It does put a small smile on my face when I drive it around.

People bitch and bitch about the steering, but it's still great. I set the car up and I turn in...it's still got that "BMW telepathy".

I haven't driven the M2 yet but have driven other Ms. The M235i isn't quite as magical, but it's less persnickety and doesn't require TWS. Plus, my 2er goes like stink.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

In all honesty the M cars have never been about straight line performance. It was always the overall experience of the car. Even in the e36 days, the 328is was not that far off as far as performance was concerned. The 0-60 gap was always kind of narrow, it was at the 1/4 mile that you really noticed it. But in any case, that is still besides the point. The M cars are much more visceral, and raw to drive, where as the regular 3s were more friendly for daily use (for the average individual).

I don't think the M240i will be killing any M2 sales, but lack of M2 numbers might increase 240 sales... who knows, maybe the M2 will get a bump in power through its lifecycle, there have been precedents before, the Z3M roadies and coupes got the S54 later in their lives.

[XutvJet]

Once again, us "fat" Americans are focusing solely on power when it comes to the M235/240 vs M2. LOL Go to a road course and you'll see that power isn't the end-all to all out performance. Handling, grip, and braking plays a very large part. That's where the M2 has the biggest advantage and will outrun the M240.

And lastly, with how BMW rates their motors, it's hard to know exactly what this car will really be putting out. The N55 in the M235 6MT is typically putting down ~310whp/330wtq on the Dynojet and the 8ATs being fractionally less. That equates to 355hp/370tq vs the 320hp/330tq rating. The M235 is already making the M240's rated numbers. We know the B58 is putting down around 320whp/340wtq in the BMS 340 8AT. So BMW has flexibility is bending the numbers any way they choose. They already do marketing voodoo on the 340 and 440 cars. Both cars make the same power, but BMW says the 440 is a couple ticks quicker, you know, because it's a coupe (....and weighs the same). The M240 will certainly be quicker and faster than the M235, but by how much? I guess we'll see when the dynos start showing up in the late summer/fall.

[nike001]

Originally Posted by Powaup

The question is, when will the F87 M2 get the new engine? it won't make sense for bmw to hang on to a bunch of N55s just for the M2 a few years from now

That wouldn't fall in line with what they did in the past.

Even the X5m still has the 'older' engine despite being in the new chassis (albeit it has upgrades)

Even again, BMW threw the N54 in the 1M despite the N55 being the new engine.