[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by one1er

This isn't a discussion about which is objectively best...we all know the answer to that!

This is a sharing place for people to explain which and why serves their own taste better...

I mean, no one can contest the zf8's speed, smoothness, economy, comfort etc, whether by an inch or a mile, but some prefer the manual's feel, connection, control...thank god BMW gives us the choice!!!

I really need to drive one even if just for a dozen miles...

[C-Huck2112]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

And, some have added the issue of "macho" and class status for the first time to the discussion. I don't think any manual fans have suggested anything close to that. We're simply explaining, for us, the difference between fun and boredom. Perhaps we should envy the automatic fans...they are more easily entertained by one foot and hand while we have to search for something we find more stimulating to do with two.

Diff between fun and boredom. Agree 100%. If I got auto I would have hired a full time driver while I could chill in the passenger seat commenting on better gas mileage and faster 0-60 times while my driver flicked the steering wheel paddles.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by C-Huck2112

Diff between fun and boredom. Agree 100%. If I got auto I would have hired a full time driver while I could chill in the passenger seat commenting on better gas mileage and faster 0-60 times while my driver flicked the steering wheel paddles.

You understand! If young girls and grandmas in Europe drive sticks, good for them. This is not about "machismo"....this is about being active. I prefer to drive, not just ride behind the wheel.

About 5.5 years ago, I had access to a huge corporate discount on Mercedes-Benz and bought two of them....a C300 and E350, the E for my wife. I found one of the 2% of manual C300s in the country and did some mods (struts, antisway bars, strut tower brace) to liven it up a bit. These two cars have been superbly comfortable, the most reliable/highest quality cars I've had in decades, and I have a dealer/service who treats me like royalty. I will buy my wife's next car there, but I am giving up on MB because the cars are just too dull and they dropped all manual transmissions. When I drive my wife's 4MATIC automatic very-cushy E, I feel as if I've suddenly aged 10 years, although it's a car many around the world would love to own! So, the pursuit of a rear-wheel drive stick brings me (back) to a BMW showroom, where I bought some cars many decades ago....before an intervening career in the US auto industry.

Looking forward to ordering a 2015 once I see if Valencia Orange has been expanded to the MSport package!

[buumer]

Originally Posted by C-Huck2112

To each their own but I would have never purchased this car with an automatic. Absolutely a no brainer decision for me. Interesting that all the 6MT buyers easily explain their decisions yet the auto guys are very self-defensive with their decisions rattling off meaningless "stats" to justify their auto purchase. All good, and just good to see that everybody is happy with their personal choice.

Oh please. This car comes with electric steering, climate control, adjustable suspension, and dozens of sensors monitoring its status at any given second. Adding one pedal to the mix doesn't result in some magical connection to the road that is absent with the auto. There is a case to be made that a manual makes for a more pure driving experience in a caterham or an old school 911, but this is not such a car, and I'm glad that it's available with a fantastic auto. I got the auto because it's a 2014 BMW and not a gocart.

I like that there's a manual offered, but let's not pretend I need to justify picking a brilliant auto on a BMW.

[Gaviin]

So needlessly defensive...

[Vitt]

Originally Posted by yep

Auto is:
Modern automatic transmissions are simply superior technology that produces superior results in every category.

But you can't quantify an individual's "Experience," which has nothing to do "superior results."

For those of you who have manuals on the 2 (or even 3) series, how is the shifting action? Relatively short and smooth throws? Also, how do you feel about the gear ratios? When you change from 1st to 2nd, do the revs drop a lot? (I've yet to look at the gear ratios). I am considering the 228 with manual transmission but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I can't test drive one because no dealers have them with manual transmission.

Do you think test driving an M235i with manual tranny will give me a good idea of what the manual is in the 228i? TIA.

[one1er]

I think the manual should feel exactly the same...

I've also like to ask the manual owners what they think about the ratios...I've seen a couple of videos which suggest the rpm drop from 1st to 2nd is quite steep, and I was wondering how that feels to the owners???

I'd like to know as well WHY people who voted "...and regreted it" did regret their choice...come on people, you have to let us know why you regret it!!! TELL US!!

[Vitt]

I do remember a Motor Trend article or video that's probably 2 yrs old now. I think it was MT editor Joe Lieberman (SP?) and if not mistaken it was a report on their long term F30 328i. I remember him saying something to the effect that the BMW manual was not that good and he should have ordered the 8 speed auto for their long term car. And in the comparison of the 328i vs. the AST, they said the AST manual was terrible at the time. That should be fixed as it was likely a software problem.

So to me it's not just manual vs. auto, it's the quality of the manual. I drive an S2000, which has one of the best manual transmissions in the business, so I am biased. Test drove a Mazda6 manual on Saturday and it was quite good together with the handling and nice steering feel. I only wish the engine had a little more torque.

[one1er]

Originally Posted by Vitt

I do remember a Motor Trend article or video that's probably 2 yrs old now. I think it was MT editor Joe Lieberman (SP?) and if not mistaken it was a report on their long term F30 328i. I remember him saying something to the effect that the BMW manual was not that good and he should have ordered the 8 speed auto for their long term car. And in the comparison of the 328i vs. the AST, they said the AST manual was terrible at the time. That should be fixed as it was likely a software problem.

So to me it's not just manual vs. auto, it's the quality of the manual. I drive an S2000, which has one of the best manual transmissions in the business, so I am biased. Test drove a Mazda6 manual on Saturday and it was quite good together with the handling and nice steering feel. I only wish the engine had a little more torque.

I drive a manual 2010 mazda 3, and I love that GB feel...short throw, and that click n go feeling is great...the thing I don't like about the bmw's is the long throw, it's too much. I can live with that typical rubbery feel to it...

My main concern is the satisfaction I get from using a manual...I love driving, and manual shifting is a BIG part of the pleasure I get from driving! It's not about efficiency, it's about enjoying the control, the rev matching, the absolute authority over when and which gear to select...

I'm praying to see Chris Harris driving a manual M235i this week or anytime soon so I can see how he compares the auto on the M135i he test-drove to the manual...he was very impressed about the ZF8 and advised to go for it, and this coming from a guy who would always go for manual when possible says a lot, I think...

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by C-Huck2112

Diff between fun and boredom. Agree 100%. If I got auto I would have hired a full time driver while I could chill in the passenger seat commenting on better gas mileage and faster 0-60 times while my driver flicked the steering wheel paddles.

LOL!

Again, my choice of AT is simply due to a bad left knee and hideous LA traffic. Bad Combo. If I lived in a more rural location, I'd likely have a MT.

Like an earlier poster said, there's a bundle of fun to be had when in sport+ and the shifter tipped into sport mode. It shifts strong and quick. Not quite a DCT, but pretty damn good. Sure you can have the option of snoozing in "Drive" but you can get pretty playful using the paddles and engine rpm. In some respects it takes more concentration because you don't have a clutch pedal to feather out mistakes. You can get pretty creative toggling the shifter from left to right and from front to back finding the right gear/rev combinations for a given situation.

As for you chilling in the passenger seat…that may be difficult. If I was your driver in an M235i AT, you'd probably have a lot of spilled drinks on your shirt!

[danimal]

Originally Posted by Vitt

So to me it's not just manual vs. auto, it's the quality of the manual. I drive an S2000, which has one of the best manual transmissions in the business, so I am biased.

+1.

The best three manuals I've driven are:

1. Honda S2000
2. Porsche 911
3. BMW M3 (E36)

The non-M BMWs all seem to have longish throws and heavy flywheels, which helps smoothness but makes the car feel less racy. Shift effort seems to vary quite a bit. My E90 328i is a little too heavy for my taste (even before I put on a short shift kit), the 6MT 228i I just test drove, too light for my taste. As I mentioned in another thread, I recall the 128i's manual being better than the 228i's.

Originally Posted by one1er

I drive a manual 2010 mazda 3, and I love that GB feel...short throw, and that click n go feeling is great...the thing I don't like about the bmw's is the long throw, it's too much. I can live with that typical rubbery feel to it...

My main concern is the satisfaction I get from using a manual...I love driving, and manual shifting is a BIG part of the pleasure I get from driving! It's not about efficiency, it's about enjoying the control, the rev matching, the absolute authority over when and which gear to select...

+1 to this as well. I don't just want any old manual, I want a good one that really does increase the pleasure of driving.

In other news, It's funny to see all the philosophical arguments in this thread. I admit it. Automatics have gotten so good, there is no longer any rational argument for getting a manual. It used to be, manuals had more gears, got better fuel economy, accelerated faster, were more reliable, never shifted when you didn't want them to, etc. That's all over now. A modern automatic can have nine or more gears, shifts far faster than any human could, delivers better fuel economy and acceleration, telepathically figures out exactly what gear I want and switches to it immediately. About the only practical advantage I can think of for a manual is that you can push start it if the battery dies.

But I don't care. As long as I can still get a good manual attached to a good car, I will. It's not because I'm macho or resistant to new technology, it's just because it makes me feel connected to the car in a way that paddle shifters just can't. To me, owning an automatic would be like having a tennis racket that swings itself at just the right moment. Sure, I would still have to run around the court, but the part where I decide when and how to swing the racket is part of the sport. To me, shifting a manual is simply part of the sport of driving.

[ll1l2l1l2lll]

Originally Posted by Vitt

So to me it's not just manual vs. auto, it's the quality of the manual. I drive an S2000, which has one of the best manual transmissions in the business, so I am biased. Test drove a Mazda6 manual on Saturday and it was quite good together with the handling and nice steering feel. I only wish the engine had a little more torque.

I drive an s2000 as a daily and I'm still debating if I should get the AT or MT.. As an enthusiast so I would always opt for the MT, however, with the new 8speed, the speed that it shifts, and the cool upshift sounds, I'm reconsidering... The main reason I bought the s2000 was for the transmission and hate rubbery feeling shifters.

I do agree with most of you here, most will regret getting the AT, but rarely vice versa.

[one1er]

Originally Posted by ll1l2l1l2lll

I drive an s2000 as a daily and I'm still debating if I should get the AT or MT.. As an enthusiast so I would always opt for the MT, however, with the new 8speed, the speed that it shifts, and the cool upshift sounds, I'm reconsidering... The main reason I bought the s2000 was for the transmission and hate rubbery feeling shifters.

I do agree with most of you here, most will regret getting the AT, but rarely vice versa.

I actually have FINALLY made up my mind!!!

After days and days of doubt and swaying back and forth between MT and auto I've come to the conclusion that the manual is the better choice for me, and here's why (I'm not bothering with importance order):

- I'm absolutely sure that there's a much greater chance for me to regret having the auto than the manual, as much I want to believe the better performance, economy and using paddles will float my boat of driving happiness.

- Economy and performance (which are the only atributes pulling me to the auto) are a tad better on the auto, but with the manual both parameters can be enhanced afterwards with some mods, on the other hand feelling/connection/enjoyment/control can never be "mended" afterwards if I get the auto. There will always be 2 pedals, and a spectator behind the wheel.

- I'm sure that sooner or later the manual transmission will disappear, even if only when electric cars really take over, but then I'll have the whole time in the world to drive without swapping cogs, meanwhile I'm enjoying it while I can!

- My real complaints with bmw's manual are the long throws and rubbery feel, but the first can be fixed with a short throw kit, and the second isn't that bad to put me off and will remain my only real unfixable gripe with the manual, though I'll probably get used to it and voilá!

So, to sum up my take on this matter: Bad points on the manual, such as economy, performance, throws, rubbery feel, are fixable, but the bad points on the auto, such as enjoyment, connection, control, are unfixable, and don't say the paddles make up for it, cause they don't, and they won't, ever, to me! Stock to stock, I may get a bit sad seeing an auto beat me on a straight, but how often will that happen compared to 99.9% of my driving miles!? MANUAL, please, thank you, BMW!

[danimal]

Originally Posted by one1er

I actually have FINALLY made up my mind!!!

After days and days of doubt and swaying back and forth between MT and auto I've come to the conclusion that the manual is the better choice for me, and here's why (I'm not bothering with importance order):

- I'm absolutely sure that there's a much greater chance for me to regret having the auto than the manual, as much I want to believe the better performance, economy and using paddles will float my boat of driving happiness.

- Economy and performance (which are the only atributes pulling me to the auto) are a tad better on the auto, but with the manual both parameters can be enhanced afterwards with some mods, on the other hand feelling/connection/enjoyment/control can never be "mended" afterwards if I get the auto. There will always be 2 pedals, and a spectator behind the wheel.

- I'm sure that sooner or later the manual transmission will disappear, even if only when electric cars really take over, but then I'll have the whole time in the world to drive without swapping cogs, meanwhile I'm enjoying it while I can!

- My real complaints with bmw's manual are the long throws and rubbery feel, but the first can be fixed with a short throw kit, and the second isn't that bad to put me off and will remain my only real unfixable gripe with the manual, though I'll probably get used to it and voilá!

So, to sum up my take on this matter: Bad points on the manual, such as economy, performance, throws, rubbery feel, are fixable, but the bad points on the auto, such as enjoyment, connection, control, are unfixable, and don't say the paddles make up for it, cause they don't, and they won't, ever, to me! Stock to stock, I may get a bit sad seeing an auto beat me on a straight, but how often will that happen compared to 99.9% of my driving miles!? MANUAL, please, thank you, BMW!

Congratulations! I think you've made the right choice.

While I've never thought the manual in my 328i was perfect, adding the M short-shift kit has made it good enough for me to thoroughly enjoy the car. If I get the 2 Series, I have a feeling I'll be making the same upgrade once it becomes available.

[ll1l2l1l2lll]

Originally Posted by one1er

I actually have FINALLY made up my mind!!!

After days and days of doubt and swaying back and forth between MT and auto I've come to the conclusion that the manual is the better choice for me, and here's why (I'm not bothering with importance order):

- I'm absolutely sure that there's a much greater chance for me to regret having the auto than the manual, as much I want to believe the better performance, economy and using paddles will float my boat of driving happiness.

- Economy and performance (which are the only atributes pulling me to the auto) are a tad better on the auto, but with the manual both parameters can be enhanced afterwards with some mods, on the other hand feelling/connection/enjoyment/control can never be "mended" afterwards if I get the auto. There will always be 2 pedals, and a spectator behind the wheel.

- I'm sure that sooner or later the manual transmission will disappear, even if only when electric cars really take over, but then I'll have the whole time in the world to drive without swapping cogs, meanwhile I'm enjoying it while I can!

- My real complaints with bmw's manual are the long throws and rubbery feel, but the first can be fixed with a short throw kit, and the second isn't that bad to put me off and will remain my only real unfixable gripe with the manual, though I'll probably get used to it and voilá!

So, to sum up my take on this matter: Bad points on the manual, such as economy, performance, throws, rubbery feel, are fixable, but the bad points on the auto, such as enjoyment, connection, control, are unfixable, and don't say the paddles make up for it, cause they don't, and they won't, ever, to me! Stock to stock, I may get a bit sad seeing an auto beat me on a straight, but how often will that happen compared to 99.9% of my driving miles!? MANUAL, please, thank you, BMW!

Very good Pros/Cons... I think you've helped me make my decision. Rubbery shifter, I guess I have to live with you.

[one1er]

Originally Posted by ll1l2l1l2lll

Very good Pros/Cons... I think you've helped me make my decision. Rubbery shifter, I guess I have to live with you.

Haha, I'm glad I helped!

It's really the only thing you'll have to get used to, the rest is all fixable, which is not the case with the auto!

[one1er]

It's funny how the poll shows a lot more people went for manual, but from all the posts, pics, comments, on the whole forum I'd say the auto choice wins hands down!

[kz1000]

I'll never own a slushbox. NEVER.

[chaswyck1]

Originally Posted by Ramos

You might regret AT, but you will never regret 6MT (unless you live in LA)

Or NYC, or Dallas, or North Jesery, or Chicago, or San Francisco, or ....

[MrBucket]

Originally Posted by chaswyck@yahoo.com

Or NYC, or Dallas, or North Jesery, or Chicago, or San Francisco, or ....

Live in Bergen county and only ever had manuals and been quite happy with them.

[GuidoDoc]

Can't answer. Went with MT6 and it is great but would like to try the ZF8/DCT on the next one.

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by DanG

And now my wife can actually drive the car.

All the more reason to go MT!