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      05-19-2015, 01:14 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYHoustonman View Post
This review reminds me of a great column by Jack ('I hate the M235i xDrive') Baruth:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...of-understeer/

As others have said, I'd like to believe the authors in this case know what they're talking about, as I've always liked Road & Track, but in general complaints of understeer are made by drivers who don't understand the limits of a particular car.
Lol, I think you probably nailed it with that article - nice post.

What's interesting also is part of what makes the FR-S so fun is it specifically lacks traction. That low ceiling is what makes it easy to hoon around and fun to drive.

It's actually one of the same reasons I enjoyed my 335i MORE on snow tires. The 225 square tires with limited traction were much easier to break loose and get the shenanigans started.

I would be interested to give the writer a 228i with a set of low rolling resistance 215 tires and see if their opinion changed.

Either way, we can argue semantics all day - every car has tuning options to help dial in the car how you want. I wouldn't overthink one bad piece of press (there was another article scathing a base model 228xi on Autoblog recently - which I'd agree with because base + XI = meh)
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      05-19-2015, 01:14 PM   #46
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From an unnamed source...

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i i have driven the 228 on an autocross circuit as well as had it as a loaner a few times when the 1M is in for service and it is a PIG.

Road And Track are spot on correct....it plows much worse than the stock 135 i had before......and it feels very unsettled. The electronic suspension setup and steering combine to create a very broken experience......if you haven't driven one you should go check it out. The engine also sounds like a hoover vaccuum. It is seriously one of the most disappointing cars i've ever driven....
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      05-19-2015, 01:22 PM   #47
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I drove a 228i in the BMW AutoX and I had enough fun that it solidified in my mind that I wanted a 2 series over an M3.

I suppose I was not coming from a 1M as a daily so perhaps that's like saying "I just had filet mignon, turns out I don't like hamburger".

The suspension, steering and bits that are all borrowed from the M235i make it hard for me to believe one experience can be so horrendous compared to the other.
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      05-19-2015, 05:49 PM   #48
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      05-19-2015, 07:51 PM   #49
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I am confused: if 228i plows so badly what about M235i which is considerably more front-heavy ? My understanding is that 228i M-Sport has the same suspension as M235i except the latter has bespoke adaptive dampers which can improve the ride but not the overall balance. Is it really the same suspension ?
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      05-19-2015, 07:55 PM   #50
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I know this is just my opinion. I still have a m235 right now. In my opinion it's the best driving car they make right now. What I can't stand is the bouncy suspension. It just reacts to each bump multiple times. I have the adaptive suspension and no matter what setting it's in, its going to have secondary motions. Putting it in sport stiffens it up, but it's still bouncy.
In all fairness, if you attack a corner at 10/10s or 9/10s it feels great. You can't spend all your time driving like that though.

I used to drive Porsches for years but always had a bmw at the same time. Bmw used to do a real good job at making a sedan feel like a sports car. An e90 335 sedan drives like a Porsche compared to the f30. That's why when the f30 came out, every magazine said the e90 was better.

M5, M6 bloated to 7 series proportions, don't get me started...
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      05-19-2015, 08:53 PM   #51
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When the E90 came out, everyone said it was bigger than softer than the already perfect E46.

And we all still think the E30 is the best thing ever.

People like waxing nostalgic about things, but no one puts a gun to your head and says to buy a car you don't like. There is a world of pre owned M cars out there for anyone who has any concerns.
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      05-19-2015, 09:07 PM   #52
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In the context of the article, the criticism of the 228i is fair. In terms of chassis tuning, the 228 is a smaller, slightly lighter 4 series. It's a fine luxury coupe possessing strong acceleration on the street, but when compared to more dedicated performance machines on a track, the more comfort focused chassis tuning and design decisions are exposed.

I also suspect that on the track, the car is severely hampered by the lack of a mechanical LSD. That alone would probably considerably improve the corner exit characteristics the reviewers found lacking compared with the Scion and Mustang.
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      05-19-2015, 09:14 PM   #53
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Also, I will add that I've had a chance to drive both the 2 and the 4 on an autocross course, and even with a square tire set up, they both understeer considerably unless you employ a heavy dose of trail braking. I think it's not as apparent in every day driving as, say, a Camry, simply because there is more grip overall, But pushed hard, yes, these cars are very much tuned to understeer.
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      05-19-2015, 09:14 PM   #54
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I'm about to trade my m235. Then I'll be done with the "used to be driving machine company"

Say anything you want. You all know it's true. Bmw has lost its way.

I'm trading out say early so I'll have to eat 10k. If you're stuck, I'm sorry.
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      05-19-2015, 10:32 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrape1 View Post
In the context of the article, the criticism of the 228i is fair. In terms of chassis tuning, the 228 is a smaller, slightly lighter 4 series. It's a fine luxury coupe possessing strong acceleration on the street, but when compared to more dedicated performance machines on a track, the more comfort focused chassis tuning and design decisions are exposed.

I also suspect that on the track, the car is severely hampered by the lack of a mechanical LSD. That alone would probably considerably improve the corner exit characteristics the reviewers found lacking compared with the Scion and Mustang.
+1

These design decisions are totally acceptable in what is a really good street performance coupe that is clearly not suited, unmodified, to track driving; and it's too luxurious to belong at the track anyway. I wonder how they'll dial out these characteristics in the M2, though, because if it's as pushy on the edge as the article says it is, that won't play in an M2.
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      05-19-2015, 11:59 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrape1 View Post
In the context of the article, the criticism of the 228i is fair. In terms of chassis tuning, the 228 is a smaller, slightly lighter 4 series. It's a fine luxury coupe possessing strong acceleration on the street, but when compared to more dedicated performance machines on a track, the more comfort focused chassis tuning and design decisions are exposed.

I also suspect that on the track, the car is severely hampered by the lack of a mechanical LSD. That alone would probably considerably improve the corner exit characteristics the reviewers found lacking compared with the Scion and Mustang.
I agree. I like my car, but the steering and suspension aren't that good. I have the track pack and the car is bouncy in any setting and doesn't really settle down. The steering has zero feel. The car is solid, quiet, and appears to be well constructed. Is it super fun and athletic? I would say not really. It still is a nice car, plus what options do you have for a new car around 40K? I couldn't come up with a better option for a 4 seat car, good gas mileage, stick shift and somewhat fun to drive. I came from a 2010 GTI and didn't want FWD again.
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      05-20-2015, 12:36 AM   #57
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They used to make sedans coupes and verts that drove like sports cars.

Go to Carmax and drive an e90 335 with sports package. An e90 328 with sports package handles even better just had a worse transmission.

And z8 was a sports car
Z4m coupe was sports car
M coupe was a sorts car
M3 is kind of a sports car, used to be
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      05-20-2015, 02:35 AM   #58
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Guys really..it's one bad review.

The 2 series has rec'd raving reviews since release....only BMW named to Car & Driver's 10 Best, Consumer reports highest rating among ALL cars save the Tesla. Edmunds "A" rating...heck if you need something recent this was release 2 days ago:

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...-the-religion/

Some dudes at R&T can't throttle their way out of understeer and all of sudden the car sucks, trolls are running amuck on our boards, and folks are second guessing.

Also in breaking news....some journalist reported Kate Upton has put on 5 pounds and no one wants to date her anymore.
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      05-20-2015, 08:26 AM   #59
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That is true. It's easy to make the 235 drift. That part made no sense to me. Maybe it's harder to do that in the 228.

I think the 235 is the best driving car they make but the brand overall has declined.
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      05-20-2015, 12:07 PM   #60
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Does anyone else not give a shit how a car performs at 10/10 on a track? I would be driving at that level for maybe 0.0001% of my total drive time and so would most of the people bitching about it. How does a car do while driving in regular traffic, which is where the majority of driving is done? How does it drive at 7/10, 8/10 where you'll actually be on a track or empty road? I'm sure a Porsche Cayman S is faster around a track than an M235i, but I know which will feel faster in traffic or track-driven at a lower level of ability.
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      05-20-2015, 01:06 PM   #61
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Here are my two cents. I owned a BRZ for a little over 2 years and I've had my 228 THP auto for around 9 months. I don't think you really know a car until you've lived with it for some time, just driving it for a day doesn't tell you all that much. I for sure had more control in the BRZ than I do in the 228, however the 228 is much more livable as an everyday car. I do miss how planted the BRZ was, and the lack of body roll, but when I get out of the 228 after my commute I don't feel like I've been beat up. If I were 10 years younger this might not matter to me. So I think what it really comes down to, is what car is right for you. This author obviously liked the FRS more, but that doesn't mean the 228 is a bad car. I do think the body roll especially in comfort is bad, but in sport it seems pretty good to me even at the limits. There are definitely some things I would change about the 228, but the list is pretty short—the BRZ on the other hand, I could have filled a book with the issues it had.
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      05-20-2015, 01:28 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John2002 View Post
Here are my two cents. I owned a BRZ for a little over 2 years and I've had my 228 THP auto for around 9 months. I don't think you really know a car until you've lived with it for some time, just driving it for a day doesn't tell you all that much. I for sure had more control in the BRZ than I do in the 228, however the 228 is much more livable as an everyday car. I do miss how planted the BRZ was, and the lack of body roll, but when I get out of the 228 after my commute I don't feel like I've been beat up. If I were 10 years younger this might not matter to me. So I think what it really comes down to, is what car is right for you. This author obviously liked the FRS more, but that doesn't mean the 228 is a bad car. I do think the body roll especially in comfort is bad, but in sport it seems pretty good to me even at the limits. There are definitely some things I would change about the 228, but the list is pretty short—the BRZ on the other hand, I could have filled a book with the issues it had.
Well said. I have a good friend who despite being almost the same person as me (same hobbies, same body type, same job) has a nearly polar opposite taste in cars. He drives a tuned WRX with every bushing replaced with the hardest option he could find, the suspension cranked as hard as it will go, loud ass exhaust, etc.

I get in his car and he hits a speed bump, the car slams the bump stops and every bone in your body hurts. He loves it, I feel like I need to go to a chiropractor after. It's fun to drive for short bursts (just like it's fun to go Karting) but it's draining after 20 minutes.

So again, to each their own. I've followed him around on twisty roads and had no issues keeping up in my F30, and would smoke him on the highway. And I didn't have to put every ounce of my being into doing it - which to me, is the reason I spent the extra money on a BMW. Going fast without breaking yourself or have to shout at your passenger over exhaust noise is a refined and beautiful thing.
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      05-20-2015, 11:13 PM   #63
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Also with the money you saved by going 228i, you can get an ND miata which R&T loves
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      05-28-2015, 12:24 PM   #64
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Well I don't know about drifting with the 228... but around a track, well see for yourself.

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      05-28-2015, 07:44 PM   #65
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My m sport 228 will easily kick the tail out....it was suuuuuper easy with the winter tires on.
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      05-29-2015, 06:14 AM   #66
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Is the "bounciness" people are complaining about only with the adaptive suspension, or do the fixed suspensions have the same issue?
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