07-09-2019, 05:46 PM | #23 | |
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All the content-free posts about how great the LSD is got me wondering whether I should get one for my car. It took a lot of prodding and provoking to get the facts out, and I want to thank you for finally showing clearly how an LSD is absolutely the wrong thing for my driving style.
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07-09-2019, 07:42 PM | #24 |
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My only in-depth experiences with a limited slip are with an E30 with a rebuilt 4.10 Clutch LSD and VW GTI MK7 Performance Pack OE LSD, the two cars I owned prior to my M235i (Open Diff), although I have driven an M2 a few times and a friend's C63 P31 for about a week.
Compared to the E30, the M235i is far better in the snow and rain. That said, the E30 with an open diff is pathetic. Compared to the MK7 GTI PP, the brake "torque vectoring" always got in the way of the LSD and couldn't ever tell if it was actually doing anything. I find the M235i is able to put down power better (but FWD/RWD debate blah blah blah). Compared to the M2, the M235i doesn't put down power as well. Like the M235i, the brake system activates quite a bit. Should note that this M2 wore 275 section rear tires. In the C63, it was very, very obvious that the LSD was working, especially in the rain. The damn thing would light up the rear at every opportunity. I imagine the C63 wouldn't go anywhere in bad weather. In sum, the F22's brake system is very good. |
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07-12-2019, 12:53 AM | #25 |
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I echo this with a non LSD car. I actually feel safer driving mine with DSC off on MPSS tyres. I could judge the stability of the rear tyres and modulate the acceleration accordingly in he corner avoiding the over intrusive stability control that may over correct leading to loss of control. I love the squeamish nature of the car when putting down power in straight line
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07-12-2019, 08:17 AM | #26 | |
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These cars are great, out of the box. But until you try one with an LSD, or a newer M car to feel the experience, you'll never see how unstable/unsettled the open diff cars really are, in comparison. With DSC off, your car still uses the cross ABS traction feature which mitigates (albeit, poorly) what 20% of an LSD can do. Unfortunately, it always responds to late, and typically upsets the balance of the car. It actually will cause the car to jerk mid slide/oversteer, and to me that's not safe at all. I had to turn that ABS/lsd feature off because it was interfering with the engagement of the LSD on uneven surfaces.
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07-12-2019, 08:23 AM | #27 |
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For me, the mechanical LSD, the 'software' eLSD, xDrive and DSC=OFF are like four circles in a Venn diagram. Some areas they overlap, other areas they are on their own. So I don't see it as a LSD or eLSD alternative, or an xDrive vs LSD etc. I feel that they each have their characteristics, pros and cons, so it's really more a matter of what combination suits your driving style and circumstances.
If you have a RWD M-Lite then I think that even on public roads, the BMW LSD or similar is an advantageous retro-fit. It makes certain manoeuvres much more progressive and predictable, reducing the number of times the 'insurance' that is DSC has to intervene. But whether it's worth the cost is a tricky one, and depends a lot of your personal preferences and driving circumstances.
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2023 Peugeot e-208 GT (electric) Last edited by msej449; 07-12-2019 at 08:31 AM.. |
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07-12-2019, 10:06 AM | #28 | |
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07-12-2019, 10:52 AM | #29 | |
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I'd also say driving in full nanny Sport more is more enjoyable now since the LSD limits spin so quickly that the nannies have no time/very limited time to intervene. This means far less instances of neutered power when trying to go heavy throttle.
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07-12-2019, 10:56 AM | #30 | |
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07-12-2019, 12:23 PM | #31 | |
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If you don't like doing that, fine. But don't call someone an idiot just because that's the main thing he likes about this car. You also seem to have trouble understanding that for me, on the street more speed does not equal more fun if I'm doing the same thing (sliding). It just increases the risk level. I bought the 240 for passing slow cars in the twisties. If not for that, the 230 would have enough power for what I want out of the car. If I want great driving dynamics, I'll ride just about any bike except a cruiser (my current bike is sublime). However, I am not willing to slide a bike on the street and my roadracing days are 45 years behind me. I like my car because of the easy, predictable way it slides in Sport+, not because of the steering or driving dynamics. I agree it doesn't slide well in any other mode. (In Sport the nannies do weird things, and in DSC Off the eLSD is too unpredicatable. I haven't tried sliding in Comfort.)
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Previous: 01 Z06, 99 323i Last edited by albertw; 07-12-2019 at 01:05 PM.. |
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07-12-2019, 12:30 PM | #32 | |
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07-12-2019, 12:44 PM | #33 |
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As the lucky owner of a 235x, I don't have to indulge in this sort of mud-slinging.
But really, to each their own. Stop shouting about how much better your LSD-equipped penis is! |
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07-12-2019, 01:39 PM | #34 |
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I have extensively test driven M2 and M4 in order to see whether they are much of better upgrade and worth the financial penalty. I found them stable and more secure and you could out the power down in C corner to over steer. Thus they would be very useful if you track your car or race.
However somehow, I find my m240i not too far from them, slightly more dangerous in Sports plus. As in order to be safe i divide bends and corners to series of apex to aim for, accelarate to the apex, go off throttle, make a slightly sharp turn and accelerate to the next apex when taking a corner especially roundabouts.
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07-12-2019, 06:38 PM | #35 | |
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If I'm too ignorant of how cars work, I am not sure what that makes you, because you are dead wrong about the purpose of open differentials. They are not meant for induced one-wheel spinning as you claim. Instead, they are made to allow both wheels to spin at different speeds (hence, the name "differential") with the sole purpose of allowing a car to go around a turn more efficiently, as the outside wheel creates a longer arc through the turn and therefore must rotate at a higher speed than the inside wheel if tire dragging is to be avoided and tire life to be maximized. Spinning the inside wheel and exploiting the high lateral forces on the outside wheel to cause a slide is literally defeating the entire purpose of what an open differential is designed to do. There is also no control of the slide when this happens. You are at the mercy of the speed you are carrying through the corner and the resulting lateral load on the outside tire, which is very difficult to judge. If it weren't for DSC/traction control braking individual wheels to keep within the programmed DSC yaw+speed parameters, you'd likely find yourself in a ditch in no time. Oh, and you're welcome for the schooling.
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07-12-2019, 06:48 PM | #36 | |
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By the way, no one is shouting about anything. Simply educating those who clearly don't understand the benefits and entire purpose of upgrading to the LSD.
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07-12-2019, 08:39 PM | #37 |
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I guess it's important not to leave out any words when dealing with people whose mouths move when they read.
For you, what I should have written is: "In the context of performance driving the whole point of using an open differential . . ." Then, maybe I would need to explain to you what context means.
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07-12-2019, 09:17 PM | #38 |
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Please quit with the bickering and return to the topic at hand: what a LSD does and how it drives.
This was a great thread until recently. |
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07-13-2019, 09:10 AM | #39 |
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Well said! Thank you!
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07-16-2019, 08:15 AM | #40 |
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Can feel the LSD working all the time, not just in performance scenario's. People are in denial like...
I suppose some like it loose/sloppy, and that's okay (lol). I like my rear ends nice and *toight*
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Last edited by Dylan86; 07-16-2019 at 08:32 AM.. |
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