[2msport]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

The TurnerMotorsport M2 LCA swap helps nicely!

Is it the same as the M3/4 version?

[2msport]

Originally Posted by TajoMan

I used AS3+ on my previous car (2011 TL awd). it was great tire overall. both dry and wet
(I literally avoided a possible accident because of this tire.)

HOWEVER, snow traction was poor for sure. it was manageable but not great.
(tirerack did snow test with UHP tires, DWS was the best by big margin)

IF snow traction is important, I would suggest DWS 06. If not, AS3+ all the way.

Not trying to argue and I respect your opinion but I read the same report and I took away that the DWS 06 is only slightly better than the AS3+ in snow.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by 2msport

Not trying to argue and I respect your opinion but I read the same report and I took away that the DWS 06 is only slightly better than the AS3+ in snow.

I think those are the two folks decide between most often and base the call on snow concern. I'm running DWS06 on all my cars now. Might try AS3 on whichever one is due for tires next then stick with DWS06 or make an across the board change depending on how that goes.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by 2msport

Is it the same as the M3/4 version?

From the website, it appears so....check out Turner Motorsports for details. That is where I got mine.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by TajoMan

I used AS3+ on my previous car (2011 TL awd). it was great tire overall. both dry and wet
(I literally avoided a possible accident because of this tire.)

HOWEVER, snow traction was poor for sure. it was manageable but not great.
(tirerack did snow test with UHP tires, DWS was the best by big margin)

IF snow traction is important, I would suggest DWS 06. If not, AS3+ all the way.

I have both of these tires currently on two different cars and have to agree that DWS06 is superior on snow, although we only tried light snow before changing to Blizzak WS80 for winter.

[XutvJet]

There's always going to be a compromise. I've done the ultra high performance all seasons on prior cars. If the A/S performance tire has great warm weather dry and wet traction and comes close to rivaling a summer tire, then it will be a disaster in the cold and snow. It's all in the tread block design and rubber compound. You can't have it both ways.

I had Continental DWS06s on the my WRX as my winter tires. Those tires were really quite good in light snow, cold weather (15 to 40 degrees), and were decent handling in temps up to 75 degrees. Above 75 degrees, their grip, feel, and cornering was fairly dismal compared to the MPSS tires I ran in the warmer months. Prior to the DWSO6s, I ran Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Pole Position tires. Those tires were excellent in warm temps and put the DWS06s to shame, but were downright frightening in the snow, even in a WRX. They might as well been a summer tire in the snow as far as I was concerned. I had those tires for one season and sold them. RE970AS was also much louder and stiffer riding than the DWS06.

If you want an A/S tire for these cars that's good in the snow and quite good in sub 75 degree temps, the DWS06 is the only option, IMO. Even TireRacks independent test shows this.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

There's always going to be a compromise. I've done the ultra high performance all seasons on prior cars. If the A/S performance tire has great warm weather dry and wet traction and comes close to rivaling a summer tire, then it will be a disaster in the cold and snow. It's all in the tread block design and rubber compound. You can't have it both ways.

I had Continental DWS06s on the my WRX as my winter tires. Those tires were really quite good in light snow, cold weather (15 to 40 degrees), and were decent handling in temps up to 75 degrees. Above 75 degrees, their grip, feel, and cornering was fairly dismal compared to the MPSS tires I ran in the warmer months. Prior to the DWSO6s, I ran Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Pole Position tires. Those tires were excellent in warm temps and put the DWS06s to shame, but were downright frightening in the snow, even in a WRX. They might as well been a summer tire in the snow as far as I was concerned. I had those tires for one season and sold them. RE970AS was also much louder and stiffer riding than the DWS06.

If you want an A/S tire for these cars that's good in the snow and quite good in sub 75 degree temps, the DWS06 is the only option, IMO. Even TireRacks independent test shows this.

I had the Pole Positions on a WRX at one point, too. Couldn't agree more ... and the tread wear on them is horrible compared to the other two you mention.

Completely agree with your general point; tires are always a compromise. Here in Texas, the A/S 3+s are the superior choice, IMHO, even above the DWS06s. They stick really well above 70F for an A/S tire, and their rain performance is roughly on par with the DWS, which I had on my Lexus CT F Sport.

[Ron Jeffries]

As I read the Tire Rack comparisons, I prefer the AS3+ for its non-winter dry/wet performance. That's because I have a set of winter tires and wheels as well.

Definitely a close comparison. My interest, odd though it may be, is a bit more wet safety compared to the slicks that are on there now.

Very useful thread. I'm grateful to all who've been involved, even if it is in the wrong forum

[XutvJet]

Yep, if I want the best performing all season to run year around for a warmer climate that might see snow once every few years, the AS3+ is the choice. If you live somewhere that sees a few minor snow events every year, the DWS06 is the best choice.

[Ron Jeffries]

Yeah. We get real snow here. This winter I put the winter Contis on in mid November (a bit early) and will take them off probably around March - April. I like to have the best possible shot at traction.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by 2msport

Is it the same as the M3/4 version?

Yes, they are all same part #

[petegtsv10]

"There's always going to be a compromise. I've done the ultra high performance all seasons on prior cars. If the A/S performance tire has great warm weather dry and wet traction and comes close to rivaling a summer tire, then it will be a disaster in the cold and snow. It's all in the tread block design and rubber compound. You can't have it both ways."

I agree with the "compromise" mentioned in the quote above, but the margins are narrowing. UHP tires are now achieving very good wet traction and surprising mileage. Just a few years ago, UHP meant dismal wet traction and no life expectancy at all.
We're going to swap our MPSS for AS3+ simply because I'm not willing to sit home again the next time the temps go below 20dF and I'm concerned about tires cracking. I can live with poor snow performance for the little TN snow we get, but we have too many cold nights that I want a car to drive. We were forced to drive a 66 Vette and a 41 truck a bunch this month and neither has heated seats!!

[DaleHeinz]

Originally Posted by petegtsv10

"There's always going to be a compromise. I've done the ultra high performance all seasons on prior cars. If the A/S performance tire has great warm weather dry and wet traction and comes close to rivaling a summer tire, then it will be a disaster in the cold and snow. It's all in the tread block design and rubber compound. You can't have it both ways."

I agree with the "compromise" mentioned in the quote above, but the margins are narrowing. UHP tires are now achieving very good wet traction and surprising mileage. Just a few years ago, UHP meant dismal wet traction and no life expectancy at all.
We're going to swap our MPSS for AS3+ simply because I'm not willing to sit home again the next time the temps go below 20dF and I'm concerned about tires cracking. I can live with poor snow performance for the little TN snow we get, but we have too many cold nights that I want a car to drive. We were forced to drive a 66 Vette and a 41 truck a bunch this month and neither has heated seats!!

Not sure what "poor snow performance" means. My M240xi does very well in the snow with A/S3+ in the snow. Not as well as dedicated snow tires, but you'll be hard pressed to find a better tire for ALL conditions than this one. The DWS06 is close, but in all the research I've done, it was a slight win to the Michelin overall. DWS06 might have marginally better light snow traction, but for 10-15% of my driving, 85% of the time, the Michelin is the better tire.

It comes down to single digit performance differences with these tires. Unless you're a seasoned pro, you wouldn't be able to guess which of the two tires you're running in a blind test.

[2msport]

Originally Posted by DaleHeinz

Not sure what "poor snow performance" means. My M240xi does very well in the snow with A/S3+ in the snow. Not as well as dedicated snow tires, but you'll be hard pressed to find a better tire for ALL conditions than this one. The DWS06 is close, but in all the research I've done, it was a slight win to the Michelin overall. DWS06 might have marginally better light snow traction, but for 10-15% of my driving, 85% of the time, the Michelin is the better tire.

It comes down to single digit performance differences with these tires. Unless you're a seasoned pro, you wouldn't be able to guess which of the two tires you're running in a blind test.

My thoughts exactly.

[wdc330i]

Originally Posted by DaleHeinz

Not sure what "poor snow performance" means. My M240xi does very well in the snow with A/S3+ in the snow. Not as well as dedicated snow tires, but you'll be hard pressed to find a better tire for ALL conditions than this one. The DWS06 is close, but in all the research I've done, it was a slight win to the Michelin overall. DWS06 might have marginally better light snow traction, but for 10-15% of my driving, 85% of the time, the Michelin is the better tire.

It comes down to single digit performance differences with these tires. Unless you're a seasoned pro, you wouldn't be able to guess which of the two tires you're running in a blind test.

You have AWD and he does not. That’s a huge variable.

[DaleHeinz]

Originally Posted by wdc330i

You have AWD and he does not. That’s a huge variable.

Only in acceleration. Handling, cornering etc, it's the same.

[wdc330i]

Originally Posted by DaleHeinz

Only in acceleration. Handling, cornering etc, it's the same.

Agreed on acceleration.

Not sure i agree with equivalence in handling and cornering, presuming AWD against no LSD RWD. I would agree to equivalent stopping ability, which would be worse on both cars with A/S verus snows.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by wdc330i

Agreed on acceleration.

Not sure i agree with equivalence in handling and cornering, presuming AWD against no LSD RWD. I would agree to equivalent stopping ability, which would be worse on both cars with A/S verus snows.

If you are used to RWD and holding the car on snow on the limits of adhesion, it is easier to judge front tyre grip than with AWD and easier to adjust the car’s balance with the throttle. I would say the xDrive is easier to drive, sDrive has better feel and more adjustable handling. In terms of cornering, the more power you put through the front tyres, the less lateral grip you will have due to the total grip vector having the same magnitude whether under neutral throttle or under power or braking. Best lateral grip is under neutral throttle, so no advantage to AWD or RWD in cornering in terms of maximum lateral grip.

Overall RWD communicates the slipperiness of a surface better than AWD due to lack of steering corruption, but AWD gives a better feeling of security, sometimes a false sense, as the surface may have less grip than anticipated.

[petegtsv10]

Originally Posted by DaleHeinz

Not sure what "poor snow performance" means. My M240xi does very well in the snow with A/S3+ in the snow. Not as well as dedicated snow tires, but you'll be hard pressed to find a better tire for ALL conditions than this one. The DWS06 is close, but in all the research I've done, it was a slight win to the Michelin overall. DWS06 might have marginally better light snow traction, but for 10-15% of my driving, 85% of the time, the Michelin is the better tire.

It comes down to single digit performance differences with these tires. Unless you're a seasoned pro, you wouldn't be able to guess which of the two tires you're running in a blind test.

I was just "agreeing" with the post that claimed the DWS was better than the AS3 in the snow. We actually had the AS3 (not +) on a 135 years ago and felt they were fine in the snow. My personal point still is more a concern about sub-20dF cracking that ultimate snow traction. We drove the M235 in 3" of snow this week with MPSS and lived to tell about it, but left it in the garage when it was 15dF outside. (I'm also the guy who bought a C5 Corvette years ago to be my winter-driver!)

[HeyMoe53]

I am pleased that this thread was created. I have a '17, 240i, with PSS tires. I do love the car, and I store it December-February. That said, there are lots of days where I live, November, March, even into April, where I am not dealing with snow, but it's cold outside. Colder than the apparent threshold for PSS tires.

If I gave up a few percent of tire performance for the ability to drive my car on below 40-degree days, not dealing with snow, then the PS all-seasons become an attractive option, when the PSS tires wear out.

[petegtsv10]

Originally Posted by HeyMoe53

I am pleased that this thread was created. I have a '17, 240i, with PSS tires. I do love the car, and I store it December-February. That said, there are lots of days where I live, November, March, even into April, where I am not dealing with snow, but it's cold outside. Colder than the apparent threshold for PSS tires.

If I gave up a few percent of tire performance for the ability to drive my car on below 40-degree days, not dealing with snow, then the PS all-seasons become an attractive option, when the PSS tires wear out.

Below 40dF is certainly a traction issue, but not an impossible situation. Below 20dF the MPSS are documented to self-destruct. Snow is another issue altogether.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Ron Jeffries

Very useful thread. I'm grateful to all who've been involved, even if it is in the wrong forum

Already reported the thread to the mods to be moved where it should be. ;P