[BMW335iOn18s]

Hey guys, so I'd like to start by saying that although I have driven many BMWs (except for some older M cars), I do not go to the track, and these are just my opinions, which are opinions. I don't want to start a flame war, I just want people to understand where a BMW purist/enthusiast differs from your average BMW buyers.


My mother recently took in her non-sport 528i (RWD) in for service and received a 2015 328i xDrive loaner (no-line, cold weather, premium, drivers assistance). I had driven lots of E90 328i xDrive loaners and even a friends '04 330xi, but this was the first F30.

As we all know, the F22 is basically an F30 with a shorter wheelbase, which in my mind, means that the cars should be similar - but they're actually very far apart. Let me just start by saying, that there are even small little things, like the trunk release mechanism feels much cheaper and cheesier than it does on even my M235i. But whatever, that's not really important. Getting behind the wheel, I noticed several things.

1. The steering is numb
2. The 8 speed is slushier (torque converter slips more than the RWD version)
3. The car isn't big but isn't small - very E39, or actually downsized F10 would be accurate

The rest was typical non-sport package BMW. Thin steering wheel with cheap leather, flat seats with little bolstering. Soft floaty suspension. Holy crap, this thing is SOFT. In my M235i, i have to avoid every pothole, patch, man-hole cover, etc...in the 328i is just go over it and I feel NOTHING! ZERO. This would be the IDEAL car for NY/NJ/PA. In my M235i, I feel like i'm driving a very very aggressive car. It feels low, stiff, the Variable Sport Steering is super engaging with lots of feedback and even some tramlining! The xDrive F30 has ZERO feedback!

I thought, wow, the F30 sucks! But then i remembered that the E90 with xDrive was the same. Actually, so was the E46!

What I'd like to say is this - depending on what options you get, you can pick and choose to make your car drive how you want. If you want a comfy, quiet, basic sedan with german engineering, you can get an xDrive BMW.

If you want a BMW that caters to your needs as an enthusiast and as a driver, get a rear wheel drive, sport suspension, VSS equipped, low profile/summer tire equipped model. It isn't even close to the same car.

I know that a lot of people think that the internet is filled with exaggeration and made up info, but I have seen this generation after generation. The xDrive models are extremely different. The F30 doesn't have to have numb steering, it's the fact that xDrives are becoming more and more popular, to the point where other than in CA or FL, dealers STRICTLY stock xDrive cars, so even if you wanted to test drive a RWD model, you can't.

Both our non-sport 528i and a sport line 6 speed F30 335i I test drove before ordering the M235i are sportier/more engaging than this 328i xDrive. I think that really says something about how AWD corrupts steering feel.

This loaner is a great car. It just does a really poor job of showing what makes BMW special.

Dave

[sstarrx3]

Yes, I can see where all of this is true. After spending the last 3 weeks in Ohio and Michigan on those roads I can see why folks want AWD and why dealers stock mostly AWD. Having a car that irons out those awful roads would be a plus in my book. Yes not everybody buys a BMW to feel like a race car driver. Frankly there are other cars out there that would do a better job of that than BMW. Many driving enthusiasts will tell you that, BMWs do not handle nearly as well as some. They are too heavy for the most part. Where BMWs excel is being high torque and power with ultra smooth transmissions that take your breath away. You get that with the AWD version as well, even if they do not feel as connected to the road. I bought RWD because I live in the south. If I lived in the north I would have bought X drive.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by sstarrx3

Yes, I can see where all of this is true. After spending the last 3 weeks in Ohio and Michigan on those roads I can see why folks want AWD and why dealers stock mostly AWD. Having a car that irons out those awful roads would be a plus in my book. Yes not everybody buys a BMW to feel like a race car driver. Frankly there are other cars out there that would do a better job of that than BMW. Many driving enthusiasts will tell you that, BMWs do not handle nearly as well as some. They are too heavy for the most part. Where BMWs excel is being high torque and power with ultra smooth transmissions that take your breath away. You get that with the AWD version as well, even if they do not feel as connected to the road. I bought RWD because I live in the south. If I lived in the north I would have bought X drive.

Interesting, I would say most BMW enthusiasts buy BMWs to feel like race car drivers! What cars, within the same price range handle better than a 2/3 series?

[sstarrx3]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

Interesting, I would say most BMW enthusiasts buy BMWs to feel like race car drivers! What cars, within the same price range handle better than a 2/3 series?

Ah...that is the key. I said driving enthusiasts, not BMW enthusiasts. A driving enthusiasts would drive any drivers car with an open mind, regardless of the badge. Even though they are way down on power on a twisty mountain road an FR-S or a BRZ is going to out handle a BMW. They are typically much cheaper. Having said that, out of the box, they are not going to give you the power on the highway that all of us BMW drivers love to have.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by sstarrx3

Ah...that is the key. I said driving enthusiasts, not BMW enthusiasts. A driving enthusiasts would drive any drivers car with an open mind, regardless of the badge. Even though they are way down on power on a twisty mountain road an FR-S or a BRZ is going to out handle a BMW. They are typically much cheaper. Having said that, out of the box, they are not going to give you the power on the highway that all of us BMW drivers love to have.

I test drove both the BRZ and FRS..I LOVED them. Unfortunately I also found them a little too uncomfortable for long distance driving. They are real drivers cars though!

[sstarrx3]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

I test drove both the BRZ and FRS..I LOVED them. Unfortunately I also found them a little too uncomfortable for long distance driving. They are real drivers cars though!

Oh yes, very much agree! Your 2er is a much more comfortable DD that just happens to have a rocket attached to its AZZ!!!

[bobby66]

The sports suspension on the F22 xdrive makes all the difference, feels and drives like a rear wheel car with the grip and traction of a GTR.

[Cyberdemon]

A couple points:

A base 328 regardless of drive wheels will not have the sport auto transmission (which means no paddles and a much less aggressive tune), won't have the Variable steering rack that the 235 has and has soft suspension.

The biggest difference is you are saddling it with more weight which makes it even worse, so most of those 328 base loaners are just that, awful.

If you got a 335i with Xdrive, adaptive dampers, sport auto and VSS (plus decent tires - the PSS make a huge difference over the 3 series which only comes with RFT's) then you'd find the car would drive much better.

The Xdrive really isn't impacting your experience that much in that situation. The Xdrive will sap a bit more power, shift the weight balance and add a bit more heft, but most of what you experienced just comes down to the crap standard equipment. The additional ride height hurts a bit too.

With that said, I still drive RWD even in NY.

[nike001]

Throw the F30 into some corners, they handle surprisingly well. LOADS of fun to toss those things around. My mom has a no-line, premium package 328i and I think it's a hoot to throw around if you know what you're doing.

[Transfer]

OP, your comments and observations have basically nothing to do with the xDrive feature of the car and everything to do with a base model non-sport BMW (especially the F30).

Have you driven an M235i xDrive?

[scrape1]

All the F cars have numb steering, including the F22. I've had a 320i xDrive as a loaner, and the road feedback is no worse than my F22, simply because you can't do worse than zero.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by Transfer

OP, your comments and observations have basically nothing to do with the xDrive feature of the car and everything to do with a base model non-sport BMW (especially the F30).

Have you driven an M235i xDrive?

No I haven't. I'm sure it's not terrible, but it doesn't interest me all that much.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by scrape1

All the F cars have numb steering, including the F22. I've had a 320i xDrive as a loaner, and the road feedback is no worse than my F22, simply because you can't do worse than zero.

Does your car have VSS?

[Orenji]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

No I haven't. I'm sure it's not terrible, but it doesn't interest me all that much.

I find your analysis hilarious.

You give your opinion on xdrive in the 2er forum and the reasons you don't like it have nothing to do with xdrive, but more the less-sporty components of a completely different car than a m235i.

Then you hint you're not really interested in how it actually performs?

Really?

[scrape1]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

Does your car have VSS?

What does having a variable ratio have to do with feedback? VSS is for maneuvering around grocery store parking lots.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by Orenji

I find your analysis hilarious.

You give your opinion on xdrive in the 2er forum and the reasons you don't like it have nothing to do with xdrive, but more the less-sporty components of a completely different car than a m235i.

Then you hint you're not really interested in how it actually performs?

Really?

I wouldn't mind test driving one, but I wouldn't ever consider owning.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by scrape1

What does having a variable ratio have to do with feedback? VSS is for maneuvering around grocery store parking lots.

The M235i has way more feedback than the 328xi. So if your car has the same level of feedback, VSS must make a difference.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

The M235i has way more feedback than the 328xi. So if your car has the same level of feedback, VSS must make a difference.

The tires are the input method of feedback to the steering rack. So the low profile (PSS tires?) on your 2 series will send different vibration through the wheel then the 17" RFT's.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

The tires are the input method of feedback to the steering rack. So the low profile (PSS tires?) on your 2 series will send different vibration through the wheel then the 17" RFT's.

Yeah I'd agree with that too. And yes my car has the MPSS.

[krhodes1]

Nothing new under the sun. BMW has long made cars from mild to wild. I can assure you my folk's '83 528e automatic was a long, long, long, long way from being "The Ultimate Driving Machine". What it was was comfortable, efficient, long lasting, and a nice place to while away the miles.

If BMW only made M235is they would have gone out of business 30 years ago.

[scrape1]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

The M235i has way more feedback than the 328xi. So if your car has the same level of feedback, VSS must make a difference.

No it doesn't. My guess is that the placebo effect of having checked off an option with the word "sport" is what makes a difference to some people. The fact is that I've driven a number of variously equipped BMW models with the electric steering rack, and while there are variations in weight and ratio, there is no difference in feedback because it is almost completely filtered in all these cars.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by scrape1

No it doesn't. My guess is that the placebo effect of having checked off an option with the word "sport" is what makes a difference to some people. The fact is that I've driven a number of variously equipped BMW models with the electric steering rack, and while there are variations in weight and ratio, there is no difference in feedback because it is almost completely filtered in all these cars.

Are you serious? I have both cars parked on the driveway and drove them back to back. LOL. There is a very very big difference.

Going over road imperfects causes the M235i's steering wheel to transmit vibrations and turn....the 328 doesn't respond at all.