THE LARGEST BMW 2-SERIES FORUM ON THE PLANET
2Addicts
2Addicts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe Brochure

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-13-2013, 12:18 PM   #45
Alumac
First Lieutenant
92
Rep
380
Posts

Drives: prudently
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
See, the 3er is a steal! But let's not forget that your math (51 years since 1972) is also suspect and you also compared ED to MSRP pricing.

Actually, my interest in the 2er is the same as why I bought a 1er in 2008 over a 3er. The 3er is too big for what I personally prefer. The 1er sold quite well, even in it's last year selling at 6k+ units, it's still outselling the Z4 and X6 and roughly on par with the 6er and 7er.

If price alone were the only factor behind making the 2er appealing, the 320i and the X1 sDrive 28i (rolls right off the tongue) should be even more appealing.
I agree. These cars are getting too big. My e90 is at the upper limit in terms of the size I want. When I have an f loaner, I feel like I'm floating along in a boat. The 2 is a re-imagined e46. I like it. And once a 4 door model hits US shores (but not in hatchback form) I expect this series will sell like gangbusters. That is until 6-7 years from now when everything moves upmarket again and bmw introduces the -1 series to compensate. Or maybe they'll just bring back the isetta?
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2013, 12:59 PM   #46
clbmw
Major
631
Rep
1,483
Posts

Drives: 320d M135i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alumac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
See, the 3er is a steal! But let's not forget that your math (51 years since 1972) is also suspect and you also compared ED to MSRP pricing.

Actually, my interest in the 2er is the same as why I bought a 1er in 2008 over a 3er. The 3er is too big for what I personally prefer. The 1er sold quite well, even in it's last year selling at 6k+ units, it's still outselling the Z4 and X6 and roughly on par with the 6er and 7er.

If price alone were the only factor behind making the 2er appealing, the 320i and the X1 sDrive 28i (rolls right off the tongue) should be even more appealing.
I agree. These cars are getting too big. My e90 is at the upper limit in terms of the size I want. When I have an f loaner, I feel like I'm floating along in a boat. The 2 is a re-imagined e46. I like it. And once a 4 door model hits US shores (but not in hatchback form) I expect this series will sell like gangbusters. That is until 6-7 years from now when everything moves upmarket again and bmw introduces the -1 series to compensate. Or maybe they'll just bring back the isetta?
Haha I think they should do a minus series, that would be funny a -M1 the size of a Mini with 300+ BHP
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2013, 01:13 PM   #47
rave426
Oh Hai
30
Rep
314
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 GT, E46 M3, Skylines
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

I'm really liking this car.

An M2 is a required follow up
__________________
BMW don't screw up the M3. K
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2013, 01:32 PM   #48
Powaup
Brigadier General
Powaup's Avatar
United_States
1252
Rep
3,688
Posts

Drives: 2021 Supra 3.0 (Past: 2015 M23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth 330i
Is it just me but this looks boring. I mean there is nothing special or unique about it. I honestly don't like it at all! Is there a BMW that has some cojones and design to match? I get more excited when I see older models. WTF?
I think part of it is the diffuser and 18 inch rims. If they were switch that and lower the car I think it would look much more aggressive. Renderings usually don't do a car justice as well... IMO
__________________
Check out my YouTube Channel Powaup
Instagram: @ Powaup
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2013, 01:58 PM   #49
bimmerfile
Colonel
bimmerfile's Avatar
621
Rep
2,069
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW X2 F39
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: GTA, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Let's not forget that 3% inflation since 2008 simply means that $48.8k would now be $58.3k.
1. Neither the U.S. or Canada has experienced a 3% annualized overall rate of inflation between 2008 and the present.
2. Few goods and services increase at the same rate as the overall consumer price index. Some more, some less and some even decline.
3. Vehicle prices have increased less than the overall consumer price index and this is certainly true for BMWs.
4. My 1er cabrio base MSRP was $39,900 in Feb 2008 and the same optioned base 2013 MSRP is $41,400 for an annualized price increase of LT 1%.
__________________
2019 X2
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2013, 02:17 PM   #50
WilliCO
Captain
WilliCO's Avatar
United_States
98
Rep
900
Posts

Drives: 2013 F10 535 xDrive MSport
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Denver

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jraymond View Post
Couldn't agree more. Back end takes it from ok to not ok for me. My 135i...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan135 View Post
I agree. With my 135...
...and let the bleating begin by those whose cars just became "not the current version."
__________________
-Will
2013 535i xDrive M-Sport | 2005 545i Sport (Retired and missed) | 2001 X5 3.0 Sport (Retired)
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2013, 03:46 PM   #51
WilliCO
Captain
WilliCO's Avatar
United_States
98
Rep
900
Posts

Drives: 2013 F10 535 xDrive MSport
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Denver

iTrader: (0)

I don't own a 135 and I think the 2 looks great. They got rid of that terrible character line that made the 1 series look like a little piggy.

This is going to be temptation for anyone considering a 4 series, especially since it doesn't look like the interiors are much different between the two.
__________________
-Will
2013 535i xDrive M-Sport | 2005 545i Sport (Retired and missed) | 2001 X5 3.0 Sport (Retired)
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2013, 04:21 PM   #52
mb135is
Captain
89
Rep
912
Posts

Drives: '13 135is #180/586
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alumac View Post
Me thinks the 2 appeals to a much broader market than the 1 did because everything else has moved so far upmarket. I remember in 2008 speccing my m3 for euro delivery and it had a base price of 48.800. I know msrp and euro srp aren't exactly the same, but still...
Good point. People shopping 4s will have a hard look at the 2. To me and some others, the 2 is the right size for a coupe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alumac View Post
I agree. These cars are getting too big. My e90 is at the upper limit in terms of the size I want. When I have an f loaner, I feel like I'm floating along in a boat. The 2 is a re-imagined e46. I like it. And once a 4 door model hits US shores (but not in hatchback form) I expect this series will sell like gangbusters. That is until 6-7 years from now when everything moves upmarket again and bmw introduces the -1 series to compensate. Or maybe they'll just bring back the isetta?
Yea, I agree, and it comes down to what we're used to. I have a hard time driving an E9x size-wise. So while the size of the 2 looks to be a re-imagined e-46 (so is the 1 by that rationale), the key is whether or not it will _feel_ like the e46. No Fx-based car I've driven has felt anything like it. I'm not saying they're worse; I'm just saying I don't like them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
...and let the bleating begin by those whose cars just became "not the current version."
...and let the bleating begin by those who "have to have the latest and greatest..."


Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
I don't own a 135 and I think the 2 looks great. They got rid of that terrible character line that made the 1 series look like a little piggy.

This is going to be temptation for anyone considering a 4 series, especially since it doesn't look like the interiors are much different between the two.
I do own a 135 and I also think the 2 looks great. The rear is off, but that might be fixable with a different diffuser.

Sorry you don't like the 1. I don't like the fat fiver, but I'm glad you do.
__________________

E82 '13 135is - Space Gray/Coral Red, 6 MT,
Heated Seats, 50% tint, clear bra, BMW Perf. Grilles, BMW Perf. CF Diffuser - #180/586
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2013, 04:47 PM   #53
clbmw
Major
631
Rep
1,483
Posts

Drives: 320d M135i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alumac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
See, the 3er is a steal! But let's not forget that your math (51 years since 1972) is also suspect and you also compared ED to MSRP pricing.

Actually, my interest in the 2er is the same as why I bought a 1er in 2008 over a 3er. The 3er is too big for what I personally prefer. The 1er sold quite well, even in it's last year selling at 6k+ units, it's still outselling the Z4 and X6 and roughly on par with the 6er and 7er.

If price alone were the only factor behind making the 2er appealing, the 320i and the X1 sDrive 28i (rolls right off the tongue) should be even more appealing.
I agree. These cars are getting too big. My e90 is at the upper limit in terms of the size I want. When I have an f loaner, I feel like I'm floating along in a boat. The 2 is a re-imagined e46. I like it. And once a 4 door model hits US shores (but not in hatchback form) I expect this series will sell like gangbusters. That is until 6-7 years from now when everything moves upmarket again and bmw introduces the -1 series to compensate. Or maybe they'll just bring back the isetta?
Haha I think they should do a minus series, that would be funny a -M1 the size of a Mini with 300+ BHP
Audi photos are out on autocar of the 2015 A0
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2013, 06:37 PM   #54
jraymond
Lieutenant
18
Rep
411
Posts

Drives: 135i SGM
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: U.S.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer
Quote:
Originally Posted by jraymond View Post
Couldn't agree more. Back end takes it from ok to not ok for me. My 135i...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan135 View Post
I agree. With my 135...
...and let the bleating begin by those whose cars just became "not the current version."
I don't care that not the current version. Hell I still don't see my car on the road much 6 years later and everyone still thinks it's a 3 series or M3 for all they know (which ain't much). But they're might be something to your point. If I didn't own a 1 series I would be considering this car more. I'm sure I talked myself into the 1 a lot easier since I didn't care what it looked like I was going to by it regardless based on size alone. 6 years later tho I do like the fact that might 1 series looks far less than a Toyota Camry overall like the new 2 looks like to me. But hey that's just my 2 cents.....
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2013, 07:39 PM   #55
buumer
Private First Class
27
Rep
120
Posts

Drives: EB M235i
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Cbus

iTrader: (0)

Looking at everything again and starting to have doubts if BMW did enough for the m235i to stand out from the competition, specifically the mk7 golf r. Golf sits between an entry level lux couple like the 235 and no frills sti as far as quality and design, but really feel that the 50k ultimate driving machine might not be worth the 10-15k premium if it can't stay with a 300hp/~3000lb sub lux hatch.
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2013, 07:50 PM   #56
jraymond
Lieutenant
18
Rep
411
Posts

Drives: 135i SGM
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: U.S.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by buumer
Looking at everything again and starting to have doubts if BMW did enough for the m235i to stand out from the competition, specifically the mk7 golf r. Golf sits between an entry level lux couple like the 235 and no frills sti as far as quality and design, but really feel that the 50k ultimate driving machine might not be worth the 10-15k premium if it can't stay with a 300hp/~3000lb sub lux hatch.
Well stated, couldn't agree more
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2013, 08:38 PM   #57
WilliCO
Captain
WilliCO's Avatar
United_States
98
Rep
900
Posts

Drives: 2013 F10 535 xDrive MSport
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Denver

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mb135is
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alumac View Post
Me thinks the 2 appeals to a much broader market than the 1 did because everything else has moved so far upmarket. I remember in 2008 speccing my m3 for euro delivery and it had a base price of 48.800. I know msrp and euro srp aren't exactly the same, but still...
Good point. People shopping 4s will have a hard look at the 2. To me and some others, the 2 is the right size for a coupe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alumac View Post
I agree. These cars are getting too big. My e90 is at the upper limit in terms of the size I want. When I have an f loaner, I feel like I'm floating along in a boat. The 2 is a re-imagined e46. I like it. And once a 4 door model hits US shores (but not in hatchback form) I expect this series will sell like gangbusters. That is until 6-7 years from now when everything moves upmarket again and bmw introduces the -1 series to compensate. Or maybe they'll just bring back the isetta?
Yea, I agree, and it comes down to what we're used to. I have a hard time driving an E9x size-wise. So while the size of the 2 looks to be a re-imagined e-46 (so is the 1 by that rationale), the key is whether or not it will _feel_ like the e46. No Fx-based car I've driven has felt anything like it. I'm not saying they're worse; I'm just saying I don't like them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
...and let the bleating begin by those whose cars just became "not the current version."
...and let the bleating begin by those who "have to have the latest and greatest..."


Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
I don't own a 135 and I think the 2 looks great. They got rid of that terrible character line that made the 1 series look like a little piggy.

This is going to be temptation for anyone considering a 4 series, especially since it doesn't look like the interiors are much different between the two.
I do own a 135 and I also think the 2 looks great. The rear is off, but that might be fixable with a different diffuser.

Sorry you don't like the 1. I don't like the fat fiver, but I'm glad you do.
Why do you care at all what I like?
__________________
-Will
2013 535i xDrive M-Sport | 2005 545i Sport (Retired and missed) | 2001 X5 3.0 Sport (Retired)
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2013, 10:16 PM   #58
Captain_Burgundy
Enlisted Member
United_States
1
Rep
30
Posts

Drives: M235i Min Gray / Coral / 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

I guess this is the thread - rag on a cars capabilities that no one here has driven ?

So now the M235i is not up to snuff with the Golf R or the STi?

I would presume it would be above them if its at all like the M135 which it is supposed to be a little better, but I don't know haven't driven it

Last edited by Captain_Burgundy; 11-13-2013 at 10:23 PM..
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2013, 10:22 PM   #59
Greenkirby21
Vrooom :)
Greenkirby21's Avatar
United_States
313
Rep
2,602
Posts

Drives: C7 Stringray
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dream Land

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Burgundy View Post
I guess this is the thread - rag on a cars capabilities that no one here has driven ?

So now the M235i is not up to snuff with the Golf R or the STi?

I would presume it would be above them if its atall like the M135 which it is supposed to be a little better, but I don't know haven't driven it.

Also the Golf R only has 256 hp not 300 hp
I believe they are talking about the MK7 Golf R which will have 300 hp. But that is at least 2-4 years away (4 if they follow the same US strategy of releasing the car at the end of the life cycle - but I hope they change that since the MK7 golf will begin to come in Fall next year)
__________________
2014 C7 Corvette Stringray - Laguna Blue - NPP Exhaust - Competition Seats
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2013, 01:10 AM   #60
BMWinGE
Captain
32
Rep
662
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: May 2007
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by buumer View Post
Looking at everything again and starting to have doubts if BMW did enough for the m235i to stand out from the competition, specifically the mk7 golf r. Golf sits between an entry level lux couple like the 235 and no frills sti as far as quality and design, but really feel that the 50k ultimate driving machine might not be worth the 10-15k premium if it can't stay with a 300hp/~3000lb sub lux hatch.
Isn't the Golf R like $35K? That's only $9K difference to the M235i.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2013, 06:45 AM   #61
buumer
Private First Class
27
Rep
120
Posts

Drives: EB M235i
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Cbus

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWinGE View Post
Isn't the Golf R like $35K? That's only $9K difference to the M235i.
Sure, but at 35-36k it comes fully loaded with nav and all. The m235i needs at least ~3k in options, so the difference between them is likely going to be 10-15k.

Now, I realize that we are comparing an unreleased vw to an unreleased bmw, but I think that the two cars may very well be cross shopped. This generations 135i/s could battle the cayman, but the next gen m235i will struggle to keep up with a golf(which also appears to have refined its awd such that it can send all the power to rear wheels).

Based on the numbers and specs alone, the golf r could make the 235i a redundant purchase.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2013, 08:28 AM   #62
Mavus
Colonel
Mavus's Avatar
2015
Rep
2,659
Posts

Drives: E90 335i, F80 zcp
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth 330i
Is it just me but this looks boring. I mean there is nothing special or unique about it. I honestly don't like it at all! Is there a BMW that has some cojones and design to match? I get more excited when I see older models. WTF?
I think part of it is the diffuser and 18 inch rims. If they were switch that and lower the car I think it would look much more aggressive. Renderings usually don't do a car justice as well... IMO
It is the soft curvy lines and bland design on all newer models. If you take the badge and grills off how many people would think it's a bmw. It seems they are mimicking Toyota by repackaging the same engine and parts over and over again. Maybe folks in China like it. It is very sad there isn't a single bmw model for enthusiasts and there isn't even a high end model to compete with 911, R8, GTR, sls amg not even C7. BMW lost it's premium cache in my view unfortunately.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2013, 10:28 AM   #63
Captain_Burgundy
Enlisted Member
United_States
1
Rep
30
Posts

Drives: M235i Min Gray / Coral / 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Bummer,

Saying the outgoing 135i can keep up with a Cayman and the M235i can't keep up with a Golf R is ludicrous.

Did you know BMW execs stated the M235i was faster around the ring than the 1M?

The M235 is going to be faster and a better car than the outgoing 135is. It's only possible shortcoming being its steering, which it's not going to be like an F30. You need to look up Chris Harris Reviews and others on the M135i. This car (M235i ) is not going to be a slouch.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2013, 12:13 PM   #64
buumer
Private First Class
27
Rep
120
Posts

Drives: EB M235i
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Cbus

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Burgundy View Post
Bummer,

Saying the outgoing 135i can keep up with a Cayman and the M235i can't keep up with a Golf R is ludicrous.

Did you know BMW execs stated the M235i was faster around the ring than the 1M?

The M235 is going to be faster and a better car than the outgoing 135is. It's only possible shortcoming being its steering, which it's not going to be like an F30. You need to look up Chris Harris Reviews and others on the M135i. This car (M235i ) is not going to be a slouch.
I don't really think there is anything ludicrous about a 3000 pound, 300hp, awd hatch edging out a 3200 pound, 322hp, rwd coupe. My point in all of this is that vw raised the bar much higher with the new golf r than the bmw did with the m235i. The 135i comfortably sat above the 256hp mk6 golf r(more or a less a chipped gti), but the new, more refined mk7 is really eating into bimmers old territory.

There is obviously more to the car formula than weight and hp, as steering feel and balance make the sti/mustang a lousy competitor to a bmw, but vw has a pretty good track record at making the golf a refined and balanced package.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2013, 01:03 PM   #65
doppler
Enlisted Member
3
Rep
36
Posts

Drives: 2018 i3s
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PNW

iTrader: (0)

Alright, I'll bite on the VW vs BMW segue

So I had a MKV R32 and I now drive a 135. Even if the track time comes in close between a MVVII R and M235, there really is no comparison.

The 10-15k is a premium as Buumer mentioned, but it provides for premium fit and finish that many (myself included) will find worth paying. BMW and VW make a substantially different product, and there may not be a ton of cross shopping except on forums. I can't see myself going back to a VW given how much "content" the extra 10k will buy in a M235.

Marginally related: when I pulled into a client site with my R32, a manager asked if that was "all they had left at the dealer". No one ever says that about my 135.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2013, 01:30 PM   #66
buumer
Private First Class
27
Rep
120
Posts

Drives: EB M235i
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Cbus

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by doppler View Post
So I had a MKV R32 and I now drive a 135. Even if the track time comes in close between a MVVII R and M235, there really is no comparison.

The 10-15k is a premium as Buumer mentioned, but it provides for premium fit and finish that many (myself included) will find worth paying. BMW and VW make a substantially different product, and there may not be a ton of cross shopping except on forums. I can't see myself going back to a VW given how much "content" the extra 10k will buy in a M235.

Marginally related: when I pulled into a client site with my R32, a manager asked if that was "all they had left at the dealer". No one ever says that about my 135.
I admit that the m235i quality sits a notch above golf r, and if that's worth 10-15k to you then bmw has made the right pricing decision. To me, the look of a 2 series is only marginally better than that of the golf, which would be ok so long as the driving and performance feel are superior. We may not find out about the latter until the cars are released, but we can certainly speculate on it. 200 pounds is a significant weight advantage on a small car.

Autocar made a comparison between the m135i and the mk7 gti, and the gti was not far off the mark. That was also just a gti, tack on an extra 70hp, awd, and a tuned suspension and I think the m235i might not fare as well.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/v...i-vs-bmw-m135i



Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:55 AM.




2addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST