[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by Drpoomanchu

+1 and some other data... im on the fence here with the blk friday sales... wagner evo II , 5" HD stepped , or 6" Race... maybe Santa can help a brotha out

To be honest I'm not sure of what other data you'd need. The logs show the intercooler going from 89 degree to 86 degrees at the end of a 2-3-4 gear pull. That's 11 degrees above ambient at the end of multiple gear pull which I haven't seen any intercooler on this platform accomplish.

ER makes a great product and Wagner is a fantastic street option. They're both pretty expensive and include a BMW tax that we don't believe is necessary. As a vendor I really don't like to discuss other companies products because I believe in letting the results speak for themselves but Wagner's F30 solutions aren't on the same level as our race FMIC or ER's competition core. The Wagner is better suited to compete against our Street HD intercooler in size and performance. The major difference is the price tag, we skip the BMW tax a lot of companies like to use to make their customers think they're purchasing a higher quality product. We also maintain a low marketing profile which allows us to keep overhead within a reasonable range.

I've studied quite a few logs from intercoolers on this thread and the only comparable intercooler to ours is ER's competition intercooler at almost half the cost. I honestly believe our intercooler will perform better due to the density of our internal and external fin packs compared to theirs along with the extra volume we have at the stepped part of the intercooler which they do not have.

One major downside of a non-stepped intercooler (ER) is that you lose the radiator fans ability to cool the intercooler down at lower speeds. The ER has a large open gap under the radiator where the stock intercooler should be.

[zipphreak]

That's a nice fin pack! What is the weight of the race IC. ? Sorry the engineer in me needs all the details

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Great info in this thread.

[zipphreak]

Hope this is useful to someone.

[Tiago@VRSF]

I don't think we're measuring the fin count correctly. Our fin pack on both the HD and Race intercooler is denser than the ER.

[zipphreak]

Yah i think that is wrong too. Did i get the measurements right on the HD street one. Your site didn't show different dimensions for the street vs street HD. This spreadsheet is a good heads up view for people to buy the VRSF Race IC, Good value for what your getting.

[Dylan86]

Thanks for the updates, Tiago.

Guys, you're gonna be hard pressed to find an IC at this level of performance for $600! You don't need to pay more, to get more. The case is clear, stats don't lie, and the price tag shouldn't make you think twice IMO. Look at the quality of the castings, the core, etc. It's all finished off very well, and presentation is close to what I've spent $1000 for in the past for my VW's from APR.

Count me in as a VRSF fanboy.

D

[Poboy]

Originally Posted by zipphreak

Hope this is useful to someone.

Attachment 1530627

Are you taking into account the stepped designs when calculating core volume in the spreadsheet?

[zipphreak]

No because not everyone is providing the right dimensions. Some don't include endtanks, some do, some include stepped dimensions. I found it hard to get everything, but if you find something contradictory let me know and i can update it.

Also i'm not sure what counts as one fin on the Race IC.. It is pretty dense from tiago's close up shot.. I counted each space and its around 39-40.. But it may actually only be 20 fins.. Still pretty dense as you can see, i'm surprised air can get through that thing.

[Tiago@VRSF]

Wagner doesn't correctly state their total volume. They don't account for the step in their intercoolers which is misleading and claim it's larger than it really is. As seen here they're treating the intercooler like a conventional cuboid when it clearly is not. Counting negative space as volume is deceiving.

Directly from their website.

"Stepped Competition Intercooler Core. Size 520 x 210 x130, 11.752cm? Volume (OEM 510x130x110mm, 7293cm Volume). Approx. 85% bigger surface over OEM IC."

The actual dimensions of the Wagner Competition core is 649.25 in3. The ER non stepped is 660 in3 and our race FMIC is 1050 in3. Our HD Street stepped core is 660 in3.

As far as fin packs go, here's a picture of ER's fin pack where we count 8 fins per inch. If we're going to count each individual vertical fin which is essentially half a fin, it's 16.



If we count our individual vertical fins we get 20 fins per inch.

[zipphreak]

Thanks as i said i tried with what i could find.. But I updated it to include accurate info. I took the cubic cm numbers from Wagner's site and converted them to cu. inches. They seem to be a little higher than what you mentioned though..

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by zipphreak

Thanks as i said i tried.. Updated to include accurate info.

It's a great reference, I just wanted to clear up some of their misconceived data

[Drpoomanchu]

I know previously it was mentioned that the 6" race was for upgraded turbo's. I will be FBO after this IC / CP upgrade. Depending on where pure stg 2 turbo pricing goes i may look into upgrading but if i stay on stock turbo am i doing myself a disservice by opting for 6" race over the 5" stepped HD. Others have stated they are going 6" race over 5"stepped at FBO stock turbo. It almost seems as if the heatsoak resistance of the larger IC may out way pressure drop or will the turbo run out of breath quicker later in the powerband.? Ill be ordering up by the end of the day for sure.

[zipphreak]

What is the definition of FBO? What components actually define it?
Turbo, Intercooler, Exhaust (axle-back,catback, or turbo-back), meth injection, ethanol, tune, direct-port injection, throttle body injection, etc..

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by zipphreak

What is the definition of FBO? What components actually define it?
Turbo, Intercooler, Exhaust (axle-back,catback, or turbo-back), meth injection, ethanol, tune, direct-port injection, throttle body injection, etc..

FBO for BMW is Tune, downpipe, charge pipe, intercooler and intake

[Drpoomanchu]

Finally made an educated decision thanks to [mike@x-ph.com] and [Tiago@VRSF] thnx again. FBO soon enough

[goodNIGHT]

So I'm willing to pull the trigger on a new intercooler today or tomorrow. And I've been following the vrsf threads closely. And I'm still confused- my future engine mods will be limited to stage1turbo, charepipe, I/c, and Ecu. (Engine is
Stock now). And since I'm on the track - the last thing I want to deal with is turbo lag and delayed throttle response. Two reasons why I'm not 100%sure on the race I/c. Or would this be the better route??

[goodNIGHT]

Originally Posted by Drpoomanchu

Finally made an educated decision thanks to [mike@x-ph.com] and [Tiago@VRSF] thnx again. FBO soon enough

Congrats! I know how hard these decisions are to make
Hope to hear about about your impressions soon enough

[zipphreak]

It's funny how different manufacturers provide all of the technical information on their products and others don't. I bought this race IC a few days ago with the deal that's going on, and their charge pipe to go with it. I also track this car about 6-12 times a year, but mostly it's a DD too. If it's significantly laggy i will be disappointed.

It would be nice to know if they tested the pressure drop on the Race intercooler vs the OEM. Like how Dinan did it for their new IC.

[Drpoomanchu]

Originally Posted by zipphreak

It's funny how different manufacturers provide all of the technical information on their products and others don't. I bought this race IC a few days ago with the deal that's going on, and their charge pipe to go with it. I also track this car about 6-12 times a year, but mostly it's a DD too. If it's significantly laggy i will be disappointed.

It would be nice to know if they tested the pressure drop on the Race intercooler vs the OEM. Like how Dinan did it for their new IC.

Attachment 1532661

I agree, i was torn on these IC's and went with the race also. I dont mind a touch of lag as long as flow and cooling outweigh a slightly lower response. There is another thread on here about someone running stock turbo with this VRSF 6" race version. Im hoping its as efficient as projected.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Drpoomanchu

Finally made an educated decision thanks to [mike@x-ph.com] and [Tiago@VRSF] thnx again. FBO soon enough

Congrats

Originally Posted by goodNIGHT

So I'm willing to pull the trigger on a new intercooler today or tomorrow. And I've been following the vrsf threads closely. And I'm still confused- my future engine mods will be limited to stage1turbo, charepipe, I/c, and Ecu. (Engine is
Stock now). And since I'm on the track - the last thing I want to deal with is turbo lag and delayed throttle response. Two reasons why I'm not 100%sure on the race I/c. Or would this be the better route??

Do the 5" high density intercooler

[Drpoomanchu]

Originally Posted by goodNIGHT

So I'm willing to pull the trigger on a new intercooler today or tomorrow. And I've been following the vrsf threads closely. And I'm still confused- my future engine mods will be limited to stage1turbo, charepipe, I/c, and Ecu. (Engine is
Stock now). And since I'm on the track - the last thing I want to deal with is turbo lag and delayed throttle response. Two reasons why I'm not 100%sure on the race I/c. Or would this be the better route??

Will you be going catless DP. If so you stand to gain some throttle response by freeing up backpressure. Going with a catless DP would possibly negate some ill effects of the Race IC.