[jpnh]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

Moot point. I've owned 11 automobiles in my life and I keep most of my cars 10 years or more. I have yet to replace a transmission, automatic or manual. Serviced? Yes... just fluids and filters (auto). Big deal.

So who give a flying leap? How many people keep their cars long enough to have a transmission failure.

Your argument is very weak.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287616&page=3

[M235iguy]

Originally Posted by jpnh

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287616&page=3

sorry, auto is still faster 100% of the time.

[Kolyan2k]

0-60 times are useless 99% of the time. If I tracked my car I would probably opt for automatic.

[DF]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

Moot point. I've owned 11 automobiles in my life and I keep most of my cars 10 years or more. I have yet to replace a transmission, automatic or manual. Serviced? Yes... just fluids and filters (auto). Big deal.

So who give a flying leap? How many people keep their cars long enough to have a transmission failure.

Your argument is very weak.

Especially since most of these manuals are rented 😊

[Y0tsuya]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

So who give a flying leap? How many people keep their cars long enough to have a transmission failure.

I do. Drove a 2001 330i for 180K miles with no transmissions issues before switching to the M235i. So do I get a pass?

Got a 2003 G35 AT with only 80,000 miles and its transmission is already starting to act weird.

I just got the wife a 340i with its much-ballyhooed 8AT. It was on our ED when I realized the reason it got slightly better mpg numbers is due to the 0.64 gear ratio on the top gear. My M235i 6MT with 0.85 top gear ratio is pretty darn responsive and I can pass easily without shifting if I want to. The 340i on the other hand had to kick down a gear or two if I need to pass.

I'm a bit underwhelmed with the 340i 8AT. Therefore I've embarked on a long-term program to train the wife on manual so we won't ruin our next car with an AT.

[THEOS]

Originally Posted by Y0tsuya

I'm a bit underwhelmed with the 340i 8AT. Therefore I've embarked on a long-term program to train the wife on manual so we won't ruin our next car with an AT.

But but the 8AT is faster... you'll need that for when you qualify for your next Grand Prix!

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by M235iguy

sorry, auto is still faster 100% of the time.

No argument from me

Just pointing out that transmissions do in fact fail and at least for me the cost to maintain/repair is a consideration for me.

Not saying it should be for anyone else

I intend to keep the car......current DD hass 300k on it

[hector]

The poll should be: Which transmission would you prefer/have chosen if you had no restrictions such as a family member who cannot drive an automatic, etc.?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by pz619

I mean we're splitting fractions of a second at this point, but .5 is about right. Here are the results from Car and Driver.

C/D TEST RESULTS (Manual)

Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.7 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 20.7 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 31.5 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 6.8 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 6.0 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.4 sec @ 106 mph

C/D TEST RESULTS (auto)

Zero to 60 mph: 4.3 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 10.8 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 19.6 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.1 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.6 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.9 sec @ 109 mph

Well, I knew these stats were coming I'll just say that at the strip, I've always managed to best mags times by around .3 seconds and 1-2mph in my manual cars. Also, that 12.9@109mph has never been duplicated by anyone else (especially that whopping 109mph trap) and I believe that was a M235x. All the 6MT times I've seen posted range from 13.3-13.4@106-107mph and all the cars had ~1,000-1,500 miles (i.e., not exactly broken in). The autos I've seen range from 12.9-13.2@106-109mph with mileages varying.

With all that said, I'll NEVER argue that the 8AT is slower, all things considered. That deeper gearing and ability to maintain boost between shifts goes a long way. Like I said earlier, if I was involved in competitive racing, the auto is the way to go. Period.

If one really wanted to blow minds, simply strapping on a set of $300 slicks to a stock M235 6MT should easily result in around a ~12.5-12.6@108-109mph assuming the driver launches at around ~5000rpms (to preserve the clutch and axles) and pulls an entirely realistic lower 1.7 60 foot. Basically you'd have immense traction like an AWD car and you are free to select your launch rpm. You could do the same with the auto, but you're limited to the torque converter stall speed and a much lower launch rpm, thus the impact on elapsed time won't be nearly as improved. Yeah, yeah, I know. Theoretical BS.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

More BS.

Just a joke, really.

If you're dead set on having the fastest M235, then you really should only consider the 6MT. The torque limitations of the ZF 8AT can be somewhat easily exceeded with the typical bolt-ons. There are various grades of the ZF 8AT on the market and the one used in the M235 is not the most robust version in terms of torque capacity. One should be aware of that. With the 6MT, you run the risk of destroying the clutch. That's easily addressed. Otherwise, the 6MT is a bit more robust in terms of power handling, especially if you're not manhandling the shifts.

[AlpsRider]

Fact: The ZF8 is a fast shifting transmission and feels more like a dual clutch than a slush bucket in sport + or DSC off

Fact: The ZF8 is faster than a stick with even the very best driver behind the wheel

Fact: Most people can't come close to finding the right gear (power curve) and shifting as fast as an expert driver, meaning that a stick is much slower with most drivers

Fact: If you enjoy the feel of your car responding to your manual 6MT shift with no jerking, it is a unifying wonderful thing and makes you feel like you and the car are one..kind of like with a motorcycle.

I think driving a stick these days is just a choice, not better. In the old days of sloppy slush buckets, ATs were downright painful to drive. I custom ordered mine with AT because the BMW sport ZF8 was the best auto I tested by far besides the DCTs, and it was FREE.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

Fact: The ZF8 is a fast shifting transmission and feels more like a dual clutch than a slush bucket in sport + or DSC off

Fact: The ZF8 is faster than a stick with even the very best driver behind the wheel

Fact: Most people can't come close to finding the right gear (power curve) and shifting as fast as an expert driver, meaning that a stick is much slower with most drivers

Facts are facts

[XutvJet]

From my personnel experience driving manuals and great shifting autos, what I might like most like about a manual is having that "shift shock" feeling and the ability to time and adjust the aggressiveness of the shifts. With an auto, can select the moment you want to shift as well, but the shift is instant. With manual, you play with all those factors by the way you choose to execute the shift. I think that aspect and the fact that my right arm and left leg are doing things is most of the draw for me.

What bugs me most about autos, even the stellar 8AT in M235 and the one used in the Lexus ISF/RCF (arguably a better 8AT), is that you can still catch some flakiness, mushiness, and slippage as the torque converter works itself between lock/slip-lock/open operations. You can feel the torque management system coming into play, especially on harder 1-2 and 2-3 manual shifts on the ZF 8AT. That disconnected feeling was a turn off for me after driving a paddle-shifted auto for 7 years.

The 6MT and 8AT in these cars are really good, but neither is perfect. That is for sure.

[Anthony235]

My first auto and I'm enjoying it. All previous of my ~8 cars have been manual.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

From my personnel experience driving manuals and great shifting autos, what I might like most like about a manual is having that "shift shock" feeling and the ability to time and adjust the aggressiveness of the shifts. With an auto, can select the moment you want to shift as well, but the shift is instant. With manual, you play with all those factors by the way you choose to execute the shift. I think that aspect and the fact that my right arm and left leg are doing things is most of the draw for me.

What bugs me most about autos, even the stellar 8AT in M235 and the one used in the Lexus ISF/RCF (arguably a better 8AT), is that you can still catch some flakiness, mushiness, and slippage as the torque converter works itself between lock/slip-lock/open operations. You can feel the torque management system coming into play, especially on harder 1-2 and 2-3 manual shifts on the ZF 8AT. That disconnected feeling was a turn off for me after driving a paddle-shifted auto for 7 years.

The 6MT and 8AT in these cars are really good, but neither is perfect. That is for sure.

I think Lexus is using its IS-F 8-speed in all lineup now, no? Same as ZF8 is used everywhere, including some trucks

[Kiwi]

Ferrari has joined the scrum of car makers who no longer offers a row-your-own gearbox. At the Paris auto show last week, Ferrari's chief technology officer, Michael Hugo Leiters, said performance was the reason Ferrari has given up manuals. "Ferrari is design, performance and state of the art technologies. There’s no manual transmission that can beat this performance and therefore we have decided to stay on the double-clutch gearbox.”

[Dylan86]

Something about the long ass gears in this 6MT that I just couldn't do without on an inline 6 engine. The 8AT is cool and all, and I have a dual clutch in our GTI already (6spd DSG), so jumping into my 2'r makes is a whole different experience. Slower that AT, yes.. But way more fun, and that's why I bought this car

D

[15GT-TO-M235]

when Bmw learns to build a manual transmission with same or better feel as Honda s2000 or mazda Miata, then you can sing about virtues of being one with the car.
unfortunately it's not the case with the present rubbery and unsatisfying experience that I found with the current Bmw lineup.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by 15GT-TO-M235

unfortunately it's not the case with the present rubbery and unsatisfying experience that I found with the current Bmw lineup.

Not sure that I've ever heard that type of "complaint" from an owner, maybe you didn't get enough seat time when testing? In fact, almost every review I've seen/heard was quite the opposite. I noticed now that I'm at 30k kms that the gearbox much less notchy than it was when I picked it up. Aside from a little notchy when new, I haven't experienced any "rubbery" sensations whatsoever. This is also the same 6MT found in the M2, and you can find many positive experiences around regarding that combination as well..

It's all subjective, though. I've driven a couple of S2000's personally, and I can't say I enjoyed the shifting experience any more or less than any VW/Audi/Porsche/BMW experience (Porsche is still #1 in the shifter department IMO). The European cars are definitely "weighted" differently, as most Japanese cars seem noticeably lighter immediately as I start to drive them.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by 15GT-TO-M235

when Bmw learns to build a manual transmission with same or better feel as Honda s2000 or mazda Miata, then you can sing about virtues of being one with the car.
unfortunately it's not the case with the present rubbery and unsatisfying experience that I found with the current Bmw lineup.

I'll have to admit that the M235i 6spd that I drove felt rubbery as well. I tried not to pass judgement on the feel of it since the car only had 20 miles on it.

[wjones14]

This might sound weird, but I don't know how to drive an automatic.

Before buying my BMW I test drove a Mustang GT and an M235i. The Mustang was a 6-speed stick so no trouble with that. The 235 was the 8AT. The salesman urged me to use the paddles, but I chose to just ignore the transmission and focus on the rest of the car. I knew I wasn't buying an automatic anyway. But the truth is that I really didn't know how the paddles worked, or how to get the most out of an auto, and didn't want to appear inept.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by 15GT-TO-M235

when Bmw learns to build a manual transmission with same or better feel as Honda s2000 or mazda Miata, then you can sing about virtues of being one with the car.
unfortunately it's not the case with the present rubbery and unsatisfying experience that I found with the current Bmw lineup.

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Not sure that I've ever heard that type of "complaint" from an owner, maybe you didn't get enough seat time when testing? In fact, almost every review I've seen/heard was quite the opposite. I noticed now that I'm at 30k kms that the gearbox much less notchy than it was when I picked it up. Aside from a little notchy when new, I haven't experienced any "rubbery" sensations whatsoever. This is also the same 6MT found in the M2, and you can find many positive experiences around regarding that combination as well..

It's all subjective, though. I've driven a couple of S2000's personally, and I can't say I enjoyed the shifting experience any more or less than any VW/Audi/Porsche/BMW experience (Porsche is still #1 in the shifter department IMO). The European cars are definitely "weighted" differently, as most Japanese cars seem noticeably lighter immediately as I start to drive them.

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I'll have to admit that the M235i 6spd that I drove felt rubbery as well. I tried not to pass judgement on the feel of it since the car only had 20 miles on it.

S2000 has no links and Honda is known to make great trannies so it would be hard for BMW to beat that.

M235i has a great tranny as well (its oubviously more rubbery then S2k), its about the same as Audi S5 that I test drove. At