[BMW GENIUS]

So with 26,XXX on the clock, my clutch seems to be starting to slip, and I wondered if anyone here has had their clutch replaced by warranty yet? I also wanted to ask if the 335is/550i clutch would bolt up to our gearboxes for a stronger clutch. Does anyone have any insight on any of this?

[aerostar]

I think you get one clutch replacement under the maintenance program prior to the 2016/17 maintenance program update.

[omega145]

I hadn't heard about anyone really having an issue like this. I did find this thread about a clutch replacement: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1204149

BTW, your inbox is full and I cant respond to your message on the intake that i'm interested in.

[BMW GENIUS]

Originally Posted by omega145

I hadn't heard about anyone really having an issue like this. I did find this thread about a clutch replacement: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1204149

BTW, your inbox is full and I cant respond to your message on the intake that i'm interested in.

Thanks for the article and the heads up on my inbox lol.

[BMW335iOn18s]

You are probably slipping the hell out of it and don't rev match. 26k is way too early.

[BMW GENIUS]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

You are probably slipping the hell out of it and don't rev match. 26k is way too early.

Probably so. I agree it's rather early, and it is my first manual transmission I have ever driven. I could imagine it's had its share of abuse.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by BMW GENIUS

Probably so. I agree it's rather early, and it is my first manual transmission I have ever driven. I could imagine it's had its share of abuse.

Fair enough.

1. This time around, practice releasing the clutch to the friction point (without any throttle) and then adding throttle to keep RPMs steady when you take off.

2. When shifting, generally, don't spend too much time with the clutch pedal between 0% and 100% depressed. Make your shifts briskly. Don't let RPM fall below where they would be in the next gear.

3. YouTube how to rev-match. Practice by rev matching 4th-3rd at about 35mph. That's like 1800 rpm in 4th to like 2300 in 3rd. You blip the gas pedal to bring the revs up from where they are in 4th to where they will be in 3rd while you're foot presses down on the clutch and then when you release the clutch quickly it should be smooth.

Mimic the behavior of a modern automatic transmission, basically.

It might sound hard at first, but it's really easy after doing it for a day or 2. 2nd gear will always be hardest to rev match, but always get it as close as you can.

Never downshift into first.

Oh, and btw, if you can't rev match, then only downshift if your at 2000 rpm or below. A downshift from 3000-5500 rpm (like, let's say 3rd to 2nd gear at 40 mph) without a rev match is really hard on the clutch.

Hope this helps, I'm sure if you have any questions I and other forum members can give you some more insights.


P.S. Maybe one of our European members can chime in. During a trip to Russia last year, I noticed that although many people "drive stick" such as cab drivers, everyone was really really really bad at it. They were really sloppy. They would rev to like 2500-3000 rpm and then release the clutch to move from a stop and then upshift at like 4000 rpm. Why is this? Why aren't Europeans taught how to properly drive a manual?

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

Fair enough.

1. This time around, practice releasing the clutch to the friction point (without any throttle) and then adding throttle to keep RPMs steady when you take off.

2. When shifting, generally, don't spend too much time with the clutch pedal between 0% and 100% depressed. Make your shifts briskly. Don't let RPM fall below where they would be in the next gear.

3. YouTube how to rev-match. Practice by rev matching 4th-3rd at about 35mph. That's like 1800 rpm in 4th to like 2300 in 3rd. You blip the gas pedal to bring the revs up from where they are in 4th to where they will be in 3rd while you're foot presses down on the clutch and then when you release the clutch quickly it should be smooth.

Mimic the behavior of a modern automatic transmission, basically.

It might sound hard at first, but it's really easy after doing it for a day or 2. 2nd gear will always be hardest to rev match, but always get it as close as you can.

Never downshift into first.

Oh, and btw, if you can't rev match, then only downshift if your at 2000 rpm or below. A downshift from 3000-5500 rpm (like, let's say 3rd to 2nd gear at 40 mph) without a rev match is really hard on the clutch.

Hope this helps, I'm sure if you have any questions I and other forum members can give you some more insights.


P.S. Maybe one of our European members can chime in. During a trip to Russia last year, I noticed that although many people "drive stick" such as cab drivers, everyone was really really really bad at it. They were really sloppy. They would rev to like 2500-3000 rpm and then release the clutch to move from a stop and then upshift at like 4000 rpm. Why is this? Why aren't Europeans taught how to properly drive a manual?

Depends on the cars, but if they are little tiny eco boxes with terrible motors, especially older ones, they will either make no power down low, or are already old etc.

I wouldn't say they don't know how to drive stick, just that not all cars are built the same way, when you are driving a 1.3 liter non turbo, if you shift at 2k, you aren't going anywhere.

[Wheelwright]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

Never downshift into first.

There is a big gap between 1st and 2nd in M235i so if you don't downshift into 1st you may end up lugging the engine because you will rev below 1000rpm in 2nd. For example if you turn 90-degrees into a hill you must slow down practically to a crawl so there is no alternative but to downshift into 1st. Moreover: I looked up "LuK Clutch System Failures.pdf" (LuK makes the clutch) and one of the reasons for premature clutch failure they list is lugging the engine.

[BMW GENIUS]

I appreciate all the help and advice on how to drive standard shift. I'd say a year's worth of practice has allowed me to get quite a bit better. It also probably doesn't help the fact that I'm on Map 7 and made 479 WTQ on a dyno last week. I could imagine that will wear a clutch rather quickly too

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by BMW GENIUS

I appreciate all the help and advice on how to drive standard shift. I'd say a year's worth of practice has allowed me to get quite a bit better. It also probably doesn't help the fact that I'm on Map 7 and made 479 WTQ on a dyno last week. I could imagine that will wear a clutch rather quickly too

Power doesn't wear a clutch out unless the clutch is slipping because it can't hold the power. Clutches wear out due to heat and fiction.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

There is a big gap between 1st and 2nd in M235i so if you don't downshift into 1st you may end up lugging the engine because you will rev below 1000rpm in 2nd. For example if you turn 90-degrees into a hill you must slow down practically to a crawl so there is no alternative but to downshift into 1st. Moreover: I looked up "LuK Clutch System Failures.pdf" (LuK makes the clutch) and one of the reasons for premature clutch failure they list is lugging the engine.

No way. The M235i has a huge, torquey 3.0 liter engine. This isn't some European microcar. There's no way you're ever going to lug this engine in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, especially since the hearing in our cars is very short. By downshifting into first you're going to ruin the syncro. It's better to slip it a little more into second than downshift into first.

LUK is referring to starting out in 2nd or 3rd maybe. But if the car is completely in gear, and the clutch is not slipping, you're not wearing on the clutch.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by Luftwaffe1O1

Depends on the cars, but if they are little tiny eco boxes with terrible motors, especially older ones, they will either make no power down low, or are already old etc.

I wouldn't say they don't know how to drive stick, just that not all cars are built the same way, when you are driving a 1.3 liter non turbo, if you shift at 2k, you aren't going anywhere.

I'm talking about mk6 jettas and previous gen ford mondeos. Gas powered.

[bluemeanie]

It is possible that the clutch is not well matched to the car. I hope this is not the case because I have the same car! Many years ago I had a Mazda 327 that went through 3 clutches under warranty. After the third replacement I traded that sucker in. I never had clutch failures in any other vehicle before or since. Must have been the bean counters vs the engineers.

[BMW GENIUS]

None the less, do you think the M4 6MT clutch would work with our gearboxes?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

Power doesn't wear a clutch out unless the clutch is slipping because it can't hold the power. Clutches wear out due to heat and fiction.

50% more torque than stock will certainly wear out the clutch faster, especially on a quick spooling turbo car like the M235. That would be like saying a clutch for a 1.6 liter Honda should work behind a 6.2 liter GM small block.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by BMW GENIUS

None the less, do you think the M4 6MT clutch would work with our gearboxes?

Maybe. The gearbox is the same. So it should work but no one has done it before.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

50% more torque than stock will certainly wear out the clutch faster, especially on a quick spooling turbo car like the M235. That would be like saying a clutch for a 1.6 liter Honda should work behind a 6.2 liter GM small block.

ONLY if the torque causes the clutch to slip. If the clutch doesn't slip under load, nothing is being worn. Clutches don't magically wear out with power...they wear with heat due to slipping.

[nike001]

Originally Posted by BMW GENIUS

I appreciate all the help and advice on how to drive standard shift. I'd say a year's worth of practice has allowed me to get quite a bit better. It also probably doesn't help the fact that I'm on Map 7 and made 479 WTQ on a dyno last week. I could imagine that will wear a clutch rather quickly too

You're too young with a car that's too fast that you don't know how to drive. Just look at your threads you started. You were too busy trying to figure out how to get two-step, how to shoot flames, and how to freaking launch the car without even knowing how to drive it. This is all your naivety.

You couldn't even learn to drive it stock to figure out how a MT works. You, for some reason, needed to immediately work it over and now it's coming back to bite you.

You only have ONE job with a 6MT, and that's to not slip the clutch. The LEAST amount of time spend on that clutch pedal, the better. No clutch is going hide poor driving skills, sorry.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

ONLY if the torque causes the clutch to slip. If the clutch doesn't slip under load, nothing is being worn. Clutches don't magically wear out with power...they wear with heat due to slipping.

Correct, but clutches (and their all important pressure plates) are designed for a maximum torque load. The stock clutch is likely not designed to handle 50% more torque than stock while meeting design longevity goals (typically 75-125K miles for a passenger car). It's not surprising to me at all that this clutch wore out in 25K miles with a lot more torque than stock and new manual driver.

[BMW GENIUS]

Originally Posted by nike001

You're too young with a car that's too fast that you don't know how to drive. Just look at your threads you started. You were too busy trying to figure out how to get two-step, how to shoot flames, and how to freaking launch the car without even knowing how to drive it. This is all your naivety.

You couldn't even learn to drive it stock to figure out how a MT works. You, for some reason, needed to immediately work it over and now it's coming back to bite you.

You only have ONE job with a 6MT, and that's to not slip the clutch. The LEAST amount of time spend on that clutch pedal, the better. No clutch is going hide poor driving skills, sorry.

I do appreciate all the constructive criticism, (if any was offered) however I am too young? At 21 I will gladly say I could have (and should have) learned to drive a manual at a younger age, say maybe 15 or 16 years old, however I'm here aren't I? I'm learning it now? I'm not getting any better at it by leaving it parked in the garage. The original question was to see if anyone has had their clutch replaced yet and if so, what mileage it occurred at for them. I don't think you quite answered too many of my questions, but I will take what you said into high consideration nike001

[nike001]

Originally Posted by BMW GENIUS

I do appreciate all the constructive criticism, (if any was offered) however I am too young? At 21 I will gladly say I could have (and should have) learned to drive a manual at a younger age, say maybe 15 or 16 years old, however I'm here aren't I? I'm learning it now? I'm not getting any better at it by leaving it parked in the garage. The original question was to see if anyone has had their clutch replaced yet and if so, what mileage it occurred at for them. I don't think you quite answered too many of my questions, but I will take what you said into high consideration nike001

There were no questions to answer. BMW, to my recollection, has always had very good clutches with their cars. You needing a clutch at 26k is really nobody's fault but your own. You should've realized by now that when you're changing gears that if you're slipping the clutch... you should stop doing whatever you were just doing to slip the clutch. Unless starting in 1st, clutch + throttle should never be used together. Get the thing in gear, then throttle.

You should've learned on a crappy car with little/no/decent power rather than an M235 you decided to immediately basically go FBO with. It's easier to read and adjust to a slower car than it is to a FBO M235 that you're also trying to focus on how to not die in. It took me 2 months of driving my 330i to figure out how to 100% work a 6MT. I got slipping the clutch out of the way the first two days. Sorry, but it shouldn't take you 26,000+ miles to figure it out.

Learn how to drive a slow car fast, then you get to graduate onto driving a fast car slow