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      10-14-2014, 08:05 PM   #1
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"There's no replacement for displacement"

Is this phrase officially over now? I can't remember the last time I heard anyone say it.

My 228i is the first turbo I've owned. It isn't as linear as my 328i, but the torque is downright addictive and just cannot be denied. At this point, I doubt I'll own another naturally aspirated car...unless it's electric.

Turbos
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      10-14-2014, 08:11 PM   #2
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Have you ever owned a car with an S65 under the hood?

I love my N20 too....But no, there is still no replacement for displacement imo
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      10-15-2014, 04:03 AM   #3
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I hate my N20 - even though my 528xi has some 300 hp (RaceChip Ultimate), and accelerates head-to-head with a 535xi all the way from 0 to 250 km/h. I'm so angry at myself, but cannot help it; in a car as big and heavy as F10 this engine is a joke. Heck - I wouldn't even buy a 2 series with it. No BMW-ish.

Psychologically.
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      10-15-2014, 05:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danimal
Is this phrase officially over now? I can't remember the last time I heard anyone say it.

My 228i is the first turbo I've owned. It isn't as linear as my 328i, but the torque is downright addictive and just cannot be denied. At this point, I doubt I'll own another naturally aspirated car...unless it's electric.

Turbos
No
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      10-15-2014, 07:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moldcad View Post
I hate my N20 - even though my 528xi has some 300 hp (RaceChip Ultimate), and accelerates head-to-head with a 535xi all the way from 0 to 250 km/h. I'm so angry at myself, but cannot help it; in a car as big and heavy as F10 this engine is a joke. Heck - I wouldn't even buy a 2 series with it. No BMW-ish.

Psychologically.
I drove a 528i loaner and the N20 is very underpowered for a barge of that size. I dont blame you for hating it..I would too and shame on BMW for putting it in a pig like the F10. Shame on you for buying it!

The N20 in smaller guise is really nice actually..
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      10-15-2014, 07:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest X6 View Post
I drove a 528i loaner and the N20 is very underpowered for a barge of that size. I dont blame you for hating it..I would too and shame on BMW for putting it in a pig like the F10. Shame on you for buying it!

The N20 in smaller guise is really nice actually..
i like my n20 in the 328i, but... hell next year i'm getitng a m235i

.

i've driven the 228 m-sport, and i think its actually a great match for the 2 series , but yeah its even better with more displacement (since they both have turbos well then its just the displacement).

and in the end, i'd rather have a lower psi turbo than a higher one
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      10-15-2014, 08:06 AM   #7
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Infinity Q60 coupe: displacement, resulting in a lower but absolutely linear power/torque delivery. How about that?

My direct 435i competitor...
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      10-15-2014, 08:47 AM   #8
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I've had my 335i for 2 years and honestly I hate to say that I agree with a lot of what the blogs were saying, when I got a 328i sport loaner for a week I actually found I liked it more.

It's noticeably more nimbler with the less weight, the 2014 models had the fake sound (which I liked), and I felt more comfortable to wring it's neck out of every corner.

As they say, it's usually more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. I found myself taking my nightly offramp almost 10mph faster in the 328 than I did in my 335i it just felt much more stable and balanced with the lower weight where my 335 wanted to start to understeer.
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      10-15-2014, 08:51 AM   #9
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I liked the 228i motor quite a bit except for startup sound. Once warm loved it!
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      10-15-2014, 10:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danimal View Post

"There's no replacement for displacement"
Turbos (and super chargers) do indeed make small displacement engines perform much like large displacement normally aspirated engines. Having said that, I think it would be a mistake to ignore large displacement engines with forced-induction. They're beasts.
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      10-15-2014, 04:26 PM   #11
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I'm not saying displacement doesn't matter, just that turbocharged engines have gotten so good, you really can match the horsepower and beat the torque of an NA 3.0-liter with a 2.0-liter turbo. And with barely any sacrifice in drivability.

So, yes, all things being equal, more displacement will equal more performance (as long as you're not including fuel economy in that definition), but turbos make a pretty damn good substitute for some of the displacement, and you get more torque and potentially better fuel economy versus the larger engine.
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      10-15-2014, 05:02 PM   #12
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If all you look at is numbers then yes, displacement doesn't matter but there is something very cool about NA motors. They sound better and have sharper throttle response.
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      10-15-2014, 07:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danimal View Post
I'm not saying displacement doesn't matter, just that turbocharged engines have gotten so good, you really can match the horsepower and beat the torque of an NA 3.0-liter with a 2.0-liter turbo. And with barely any sacrifice in drivability.

So, yes, all things being equal, more displacement will equal more performance (as long as you're not including fuel economy in that definition), but turbos make a pretty damn good substitute for some of the displacement, and you get more torque and potentially better fuel economy versus the larger engine.
Agreed. With MPG thrown in the equation, I think the winning combo is a small engine with a big turbo.
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      10-15-2014, 09:04 PM   #14
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My opinion. Replacement for displacement = curb weight.
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      10-16-2014, 02:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
My opinion. Replacement for displacement = curb weight.
Can't argue with that
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