[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by vinny84

I agree with this 100%

If I wanted to buy a car to tune it and make more power I would have looked into an Evo or Sti

If I want to tune my BMW, I'm going to make sure the quality is of factory standards or better. If that makes me a snob then so be it.

I don't really get your comment. You seem to have no interest in tuning, so what does it matter if you theoretically prefer the safer, more expensive option over the cheap piggy back tune?

If I wanted a bit more power for $6,000 more money, I would have bought the AMG.

The reality is if you love BMWs AND you're a little drunk with power the N55 engine with a piggyback is easy, cheap and reversible. People might see Dinan at time of resale and say "oooh!", but more will say "uh-oh"... Nobody even has to know you ever had a JB4 on the car.

[BLK235iNJ]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

No, I don't agree... It is obviously more than the two points I made, but those two points imply quite a bit. If you put a piggy back tune and stay at stage 1, you'll be fine. Go and do a custom tune and exceed specs and things can blow.

Not sure I agree with "you'll be fine". Hey in the end its your car and you can have the guy next door tune it if you'd like. I personally think its not a wise decision but that's just me.

I think an assumption you are making is that all cars are the same which is not the case. What if there was a defective part accidentally installed on the car. Then you go and tune it... you run it rich and something happens. Would you be "Fine" then? No I think you'd be paying a pretty penny to have the car fixed. That would suck in my book. And that would be a direct result of going cheap.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

Not sure I agree with "you'll be fine". Hey in the end its your car and you can have the guy next door tune it if you'd like. I personally think its not a wise decision but that's just me.

I think an assumption you are making is that all cars are the same which is not the case. What if there was a defective part accidentally installed on the car. Then you go and tune it... you run it rich and something happens. Would you be "Fine" then? No I think you'd be paying a pretty penny to have the car fixed. That would suck in my book. And that would be a direct result of going cheap.

Sure. Possibly. Maybe I end up paying five grand out of pocket and still end up keeping more of my money than if I had gone with Dinan.

[BLK235iNJ]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

I don't really get your comment. You seem to have no interest in tuning, so what does it matter if you theoretically prefer the safer, more expensive option over the cheap piggy back tune?

If I wanted a bit more power for $6,000 more money, I would have bought the AMG.

The reality is if you love BMWs AND you're a little drunk with power the N55 engine with a piggyback is easy, cheap and reversible. People might see Dinan at time of resale and say "oooh!", but more will say "uh-oh"... Nobody even has to know you ever had a JB4 on the car.

I'm an architect and deal with technology all day... has anyone proved this to be the case? When you manipulate or bypass an OS my assumption is it will cause 1 of 2 things. 1. When you switch back there will be a gap of events in the onboard data log (meaning you ran jb4 and bypassed for 3 months you will be lacking 3 months of data). 2. JB4 integrates and still needs to leverage the onboard ecu and writes to the db differently. (I'm wondering if this is done through an API). If so I'm betting a good software developer will find evidence of JB4.

With today's technology I dont see how this is possible. But I'm not a BMW engineer. I would love to hear from one on this topic. Maybe JB4 is basing this on a basic check.

[BLK235iNJ]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Sure. Possibly. Maybe I end up paying five grand out of pocket and still end up keeping more of my money than if I had gone with Dinan.

My first BMW.... you are saying a Dinan tune will be $5000+? If so I keep the car stock. I'll continue playing with my american cars and my subaru.

found this on the site
Dinan Stage 3 Performance Engine Software for BMW 135i 135is 335i 335i xDrive N55
Get 373 horsepower & 408 lb-ft of torque out of your turbocharged BMW engine while keeping everything you love ab
View Models $2,499.00


If its $2500 I'll go with it for the security.

[ska///235i]

Lets get back on topic

Every Dinan thread ends up like this...lame

[vinny84]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

I don't really get your comment. You seem to have no interest in tuning, so what does it matter if you theoretically prefer the safer, more expensive option over the cheap piggy back tune?

If I wanted a bit more power for $6,000 more money, I would have bought the AMG.

The reality is if you love BMWs AND you're a little drunk with power the N55 engine with a piggyback is easy, cheap and reversible. People might see Dinan at time of resale and say "oooh!", but more will say "uh-oh"... Nobody even has to know you ever had a JB4 on the car.

I actually do have interest in tuning my car down the line after warranty, so there goes your theory.

The reality is that I'll never put a cheap, piggyback tune on my car, ever. I don't care how safe and reliable it may be. Just don't trust them. It's a workaround and easy for a tuner. That rubs me the wrong way, sorry. Some people seem to agree with me here.

And for you to say that no one has to know that a jb4 was on the car is just absurd. Why wouldn't you tell someone that? I thought you had complete confidence on piggybacks?

[BLK235iNJ]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Lets get back on topic

Every Dinan thread ends up like this...lame

Agreed. I'll shut up now.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

My first BMW.... you are saying a Dinan tune will be $5000+? If so I keep the car stock. I'll continue playing with my american cars and my subaru.

found this on the site
Dinan Stage 3 Performance Engine Software for BMW 135i 135is 335i 335i xDrive N55
Get 373 horsepower & 408 lb-ft of torque out of your turbocharged BMW engine while keeping everything you love ab
View Models $2,499.00


If its $2500 I'll go with it for the security.

If you want the same level of gains as you get with the piggyback tunes, you will have to go Stage 3, which will include software reflash along with cooling hardware (I don't think those are included in the $2500 quoted) and installation of all. So, factoring everything in, you will likely end up somewhere in the $4000 vicinity.

I lease my BMWs, so $4000 for something I'll get nothing back from at lease end (and won't be used to calculate residual value) is a lose for me. If you keep your car, MAYBE you'll find someone that finds value in a Dinan tuned car, but more likely you'll limit your audience of buyers unless you then go ahead and pay to have the car reflashed back to stock and pretend it never happened.

I just personally find it an expensive either way. Arguments about how if I can afford a BMW, I should be able to afford a few grand for piece of mind. I think it's burning money. If you have money to burn, go for it. Being able to drive a BMW doesn't equate to having money to burn. If I could afford a Veyron, then I could afford paying an excessive amount of money on an overpriced tune.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by vinny84

I actually do have interest in tuning my car down the line after warranty, so there goes your theory.

The reality is that I'll never put a cheap, piggyback tune on my car, ever. I don't care how safe and reliable it may be. Just don't trust them. It's a workaround and easy for a tuner. That rubs me the wrong way, sorry. Some people seem to agree with me here.

And for you to say that no one has to know that a jb4 was on the car is just absurd. Why wouldn't you tell someone that? I thought you had complete confidence on piggybacks?

I'll stop responding to what's better than what, but I will say this:

http://www.dinancars.com/warranty.aspx

Dinan covers jack sh** after the 4 year BMW warranty expires. So if you're going to tune after that, guess what? Your engine blows up, you pay for it, not Dinan. How's that for standing behind your product?

[BLK235iNJ]

I want the JB8 instead of the Dinan Stage 3. It's top secret coming out later this year.

[kerm1t]

Originally Posted by vinny84

I actually do have interest in tuning my car down the line after warranty, so there goes your theory.

The reality is that I'll never put a cheap, piggyback tune on my car, ever. I don't care how safe and reliable it may be. Just don't trust them. It's a workaround and easy for a tuner. That rubs me the wrong way, sorry. Some people seem to agree with me here.

And for you to say that no one has to know that a jb4 was on the car is just absurd. Why wouldn't you tell someone that? I thought you had complete confidence on piggybacks?

the level of paranoia in this forum is awesome. its a piggy back/reflash ffs. you shouldn't trust anyone unless its tuned specifically to you're car, but i don't see anyone running a EMS for these cars. if you're worried having a proper tune, buy yourself a set of gauges and monitor you're AFR and not rely on reputation.

[BLK235iNJ]

Originally Posted by kerm1t

the level of paranoia in this forum is awesome. its a piggy back/reflash ffs. you shouldn't trust anyone unless its tuned specifically to you're car, but i don't see anyone running a EMS for these cars. if you're worried having a proper tune, buy yourself a set of gauges and monitor you're AFR and not rely on reputation.

I think an AFR gauge would make me more paranoid.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Wow this thread got ugly and deteriorated quickly.

[BLK235iNJ]

Originally Posted by Bennu

Wow this thread got ugly and deteriorated quickly.

I can't wait for the tune to be available! Have others used Dinan before? What should I expect?

Stage 1 support mods needed?
Stage 2 "
Stage 3 "

Will they support add on mods and issue an updated tune?

cheers,

[mmmmm235i]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

I lease my BMWs, so $4000 for something I'll get nothing back from at lease end (and won't be used to calculate residual value) is a lose for me. If you keep your car, MAYBE you'll find someone that finds value in a Dinan tuned car, but more likely you'll limit your audience of buyers unless you then go ahead and pay to have the car reflashed back to stock and pretend it never happened.

I just personally find it an expensive either way. Arguments about how if I can afford a BMW, I should be able to afford a few grand for piece of mind. I think it's burning money. If you have money to burn, go for it. Being able to drive a BMW doesn't equate to having money to burn. If I could afford a Veyron, then I could afford paying an excessive amount of money on an overpriced tune.

This is just hilarious. The point he is trying to make is that it would be unwise to tune an expensive car that is expensive to maintain with a cheap tune that has no warranty and will void yours if it is discovered. Obviously this is a personal choice and you can do whatever you want to your car. Don't get me wrong I am considering the jb4 as well, but can clearly see that there is a calculated risk involved. You should be far more concerned if you lease your BMW, not only would you be in violation of the lease, but the warranty on a vehicle that you do not own would be voided. You would likely have to pay the lease termination penalty as well as the cost of repairing the car. Most people considering a tune would have the supporting mods so the fact that a modded/tuned car might turn off a future buyer is moot whether it is jb4 or dinan. Like blk235iNJ said you either protect yourself up front or roll the dice and go with the jb4. Those are the only two choices and you are entitled to choose for yourself.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by mmmmm235i

This is just hilarious. The point he is trying to make is that it would be unwise to tune an expensive car that is expensive to maintain with a cheap tune that has no warranty and will void yours if it is discovered. Obviously this is a personal choice and you can do whatever you want to your car. Don't get me wrong I am considering the jb4 as well, but can clearly see that there is a calculated risk involved. You should be far more concerned if you lease your BMW, not only would you be in violation of the lease, but the warranty on a vehicle that you do not own would be voided. You would likely have to pay the lease termination penalty as well as the cost of repairing the car. Most people considering a tune would have the supporting mods so the fact that a modded/tuned car might turn off a future buyer is moot whether it is jb4 or dinan. Like blk235iNJ said you either protect yourself up front or roll the dice and go with the jb4. Those are the only two choices and you are entitled to choose for yourself.

Well I'm pretty sure we all understood each other's points, but thanks for rehashing what is

I don't think the point of resale value is moot. If we were talking niche markets for cars that appreciated in value from expensive custom work, it'd be different. A modded car is not going to appreciate in value just because it's FBO. A car with no mods is going to have a much wider audience of potential buyers looking that won't even know what FBO means... much less will they offer you a dime for it.

[Pray for Mojo]

Always return to stock and sell off the bolt-ons.

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

If the other tunes are just as good then why are they not backed by the tuners? Common sense imo.

Word.

Easy to say,"just as good". Harder to back it.

BMW covering all maint for 4yr/50k was a big selling point for me.
Adding a low-priced tune to it that potentially voids my warranttee is not appealing…regardless of how many hp it makes. Pay more for more peace of mind? You bet.

If I want cheap/crazy fast, I'll buy a WRX and save a lot of brass.
If I want quality/crazy fast, I'll buy an M4 and pay the price.

But putting an expensive part on a Subie seems wrong to me. Just like putting a cheap part on a Bimmer does.

I got nothing against folks grabbing a $400 tune for their rides.
I just don't feel it's better than the company that backs their product with a 4yr warrantee.

[FunRevn]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

A modded car is not going to appreciate in value just because it's FBO. A car with no mods is going to have a much wider audience of potential buyers looking that won't even know what FBO means...

What does FBO stand for

[BLK235iNJ]

Originally Posted by FunRevn

What does FBO stand for

I think it means... Full Bolt On

[mmmmm235i]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Well I'm pretty sure we all understood each other's points, but thanks for rehashing what is

I don't think the point of resale value is moot. If we were talking niche markets for cars that appreciated in value from expensive custom work, it'd be different. A modded car is not going to appreciate in value just because it's FBO. A car with no mods is going to have a much wider audience of potential buyers looking that won't even know what FBO means... much less will they offer you a dime for it.

Well I guess you didn't get my point, but I'll address that. The effect on the resale value would probably be moot because someone interested in a tune is much more likely to have supporting mods or FBOs. Like someone else said its always smarter to return the car to stock when selling because even someone interested in modding would like to do it themselves to their taste and the dealer could care less in terms of resale value about what extra/performance parts you have even if they are OEM. My main point was that when you said you have to factor in supporting mods when considering the Dinan tune raising your estimated price to 4-5k, you seem to overlook that most people pushing their cars with the stage 2 jb4 would likely have the supporting mods as well or at least they should.