[SDKevin]

Originally Posted by Romo

Well, what can I say..........

Please tell me that's not your house

[Romo]

Originally Posted by SDKevin

Please tell me that's not your house

haha, no it is not, the cars are mine.......

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by buumer

I've seen that video too. There a brief comment in there that pretty much sums up the two cars as a true sports car versus a BMW with a slightly more powerful engine.

There is also an older drive video that pits a tuned S4 against the base 981 on the twisty road, and despite all the torque in the S4 it still doesn't come close to putting as big of a smile on your face as that cayman.

Im sure there are going to be lines for the M2 at release driving up the price, which may serve as just another reason to go the Porsche route.

Agreed - and I won't have to wait a year or whatever to start enjoying the new ride either.

[auf Deutsch]

Porsches just don't lease well. M3 and Cayman S both around $65k with minimal options....the M3 I spec'd came to $800/mo. The S came to $1000 (plus routine maintenance, unlike BMW).

Is the S a $200/mo better car? It's obviously debatable. M3= more power/utility. S= better at everything else.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Romo

Well, what can I say.........






I love them both............

1M and Blue Cayman! Perfection!


It's nice to have grown up thread on here too!

[BMW335iOn18s]

How does the M235i compare to the 1M and Cayman?

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsche

Porsches just don't lease well. M3 and Cayman S both around $65k with minimal options....the M3 I spec'd came to $800/mo. The S came to $1000 (plus routine maintenance, unlike BMW).

Is the S a $200/mo better car? It's obviously debatable. M3= more power/utility. S= better at everything else.

Check out the post I had on the first page - not sure how accurate the info I was given, but it makes some sense.

It's more a question of whether the Cayman S is worth purchasing instead of perpetually leasing - I think that answer is yes, at least for me.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

How does the M235i compare to the 1M and Cayman?

Distant, distant 3rd.

But I might not be the person to ask - I don't like my car.

EDIT - here's the video I referenced earlier - note this is the base Cayman, which is down 60 BHP and 100ish ft/lbs

And not that I take reviews like these as the gospel, but this one sums up the differences in my mind - the Cayman is a true sports car and the 235 has had the engine and suspension fiddled with a little bit...

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Check out the post I had on the first page - not sure how accurate the info I was given, but it makes some sense.

It does make sense. The residuals are most likely artificially high, whereby the car's value is lower at lease end. But you're never stuck in a leasing cycle. Just pay the $595 (I think) disposition fee. I did this with my old C300 and may do it again if I test drive the Cayman S and its as great as you say. By that time though, the the new turbo 4 should be sitting right behind the driver. Not sure how I feel about that but Porsche are the masters of FI.

[W///]

Originally Posted by abp689

My reaction to this thread: what dealer gave you free reign to the inventory?! Assume you are a frequent customer

Agree on the cayman as well. I highly doubt the M2 is going to touch the Porsche. However, it only has 2 seats and I really want a DD that can pull the family.

But... Depending on the reaction to the M2, I am clearing out the garage for a potential weekend driver (Cayman).

You don't have to be, but I guess it depends on the dealership. The one locally are super nice and they let me test drive multiple Boxster/Cayman as well as a $125k C4S.

As for the Caymans, I'm a huge fan of them as I said before. One of my favorite cars out there, but they are just too expensive new. The M2 just works better for me at low $50k's. If it came down to it, I'd also be able to make a low optioned M3 work as well.

But I've never been able to spec out a Cayman S for under $70k. I've driven a base Cayman and like it, but I think for the price, I'd rather go M2.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by Die ///M Rakete

Interesting as just in the last 6 days we took in two Porsche 991's and one 987 in on trade for shiny new BMWs.

I am also a huge Porsche fan and have owned many in my years. They are rewarding to drive in a way that no one has been able to duplicate. That being said, there is no perfect happiness and all isn't unicorns and rainbows in P-land. Hence people get tired of them and flip them just like any other car.

Agreed, was happy to get rid of my 991, had all sorts of problems, in fact everyone I know with a new Porsche has problems. 3 weeks to get a loaner from my dealership, and they have a fleet of 22 loaners.

Cars are great when they work, and I really really wanted it to work, but for now I'm done with Porsche until they get the reliability up.

[M2BMW]

Originally Posted by Pparana

Agreed, was happy to get rid of my 991, had all sorts of problems, in fact everyone I know with a new Porsche has problems. 3 weeks to get a loaner from my dealership, and they have a fleet of 22 loaners.

Cars are great when they work, and I really really wanted it to work, but for now I'm done with Porsche until they get the reliability up.

I have not owned a 991 but the reliability of the Porsche's I have owned has been pretty good and in most cases better than BMW.

[gtr]

Originally Posted by Pparana

Agreed, was happy to get rid of my 991, had all sorts of problems, in fact everyone I know with a new Porsche has problems. 3 weeks to get a loaner from my dealership, and they have a fleet of 22 loaners.

Cars are great when they work, and I really really wanted it to work, but for now I'm done with Porsche until they get the reliability up.

Was that the first year model in 2012? Usually their .2 cars are good.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by gtr

Was that the first year model in 2012? Usually their .2 cars are good.

Yes next gen is 16 which should arrive later this year, truth is there just overly complicated. It took the dealership 22 man hours and 2k in parts to flush and bleed the coolant system because Porsche did not ever think it would run dry, so there is no way to bleed the coolant out of the heater core. my friends 991s has been in 3 times for ac leaks, freon and they can't figure it out, all of our cars have rattles that come and go. I can't imagine having one out of warranty. The used market pricing reflects this, the 991 model is deprecating worse than any other 911.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by m235i

I have not owned a 991 but the reliability of the Porsche's I have owned has been pretty good and in most cases better than BMW.

997 bulletproof, 991 not so much, cayman not overly familiar with the reliabiliy lots of shared parts.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Pparana

Yes next gen is 16 which should arrive later this year, truth is there just overly complicated. It took the dealership 22 man hours and 2k in parts to flush and bleed the coolant system because Porsche did not ever think it would run dry, so there is no way to bleed the coolant out of the heater core. my friends 991s has been in 3 times for ac leaks, freon and they can't figure it out, all of our cars have rattles that come and go. I can't imagine having one out of warranty. The used market pricing reflects this, the 991 model is deprecating worse than any other 911.

Good grief. So what's the procedure to bleed the system, do you know? Are the Boxster /Cayman the same? I'm just curious.

For me, I need my cars to be somewhat DIY friendly. And even though BMWs have also gotten complicated, I feel like they are still somewhat manageable

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by W///

Good grief. So what's the procedure to bleed the system, do you know? Are the Boxster /Cayman the same? I'm just curious.

For me, I need my cars to be somewhat DIY friendly. And even though BMWs have also gotten complicated, I feel like they are still somewhat manageable

Well I can tell you there is nothing do it yourself in there. My friend is a tech so I got to see some of it. There are over 16 yes 16 different electronic valves controlled by the computer for the cooling system, So unless you have some serious computer software and hardware good luck. They end up jacking the front up opening a bunch of valves, hoping for the best, then the back, all while running. Then a bunch of manual disassembly of hoses. Rinse repeat.

The other issue is the thermal dynamics on that car are so good, it just won't heat up idling. So they have to drive it around, and do it again.

Did I mention this is all improvised, since again there is no procedure from Porsche since again this situation is impossible in there eyes.

The techs all hate those cars, because it's all mostly warranty work, which Porsche pays very little for.

[Karmic Man]

Cayman being mid engine and with the engine bay not assessable from the top (like a Toyota MR2 does) it will be a nightmare to own as a DIY car.

An oil change is probably all you can do realistically. Even changing spark plugs and coils is a nightmare.

I would consider owning a 911 as a DIY car. not a Cayman or a Boxster.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Pparana

Well I can tell you there is nothing do it yourself in there. My friend is a tech so I got to see some of it. There are over 16 yes 16 different electronic valves controlled by the computer for the cooling system, So unless you have some serious computer software and hardware good luck. They end up jacking the front up opening a bunch of valves, hoping for the best, then the back, all while running. Then a bunch of manual disassembly of hoses. Rinse repeat.

The other issue is the thermal dynamics on that car are so good, it just won't heat up idling. So they have to drive it around, and do it again.

Did I mention this is all improvised, since again there is no procedure from Porsche since again this situation is impossible in there eyes.

The techs all hate those cars, because it's all mostly warranty work, which Porsche pays very little for.

That's completely silly if that's the case. Changing out fluids is basic maintenance. Even though the Germans insist on so many fluids being lifetime (such BS), it's completely crazy to me that they don't think something like a water pump failure, which of course would require to bleed the system afterwards.

Looks like the 997 is still the Porsche for me

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by W///

That's completely silly if that's the case. Changing out fluids is basic maintenance. Even though the Germans insist on so many fluids being lifetime (such BS), it's completely crazy to me that they don't think something like a water pump failure, which of course would require to bleed the system afterwards.

Looks like the 997 is still the Porsche for me

It's really not a problem unless it runs dry, but I agree. The reason this one did and many others is the overflow valve. Instead of just being at the top of the expansion tank like every other car, well you guessed it, it's an electronic valve and shorts open.


One thing I can tell you is Porsche is never building a space shuttle. Got rid of mine after 9 months and 6k in miles, was prob at the dealership 2 of those months. Just way too much headache and time wasted for my taste. It was a lease at a very very good rate, so I just swap leased it to someone else. Problem solved.

They did give me a cayman s loaner for a month, I liked it, too small for everyday use for me. I have driven the caymans on track and there very well balanced. A very predictable and good car to learn in.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Cayman being mid engine and with the engine bay not assessable from the top (like a Toyota MR2 does) it will be a nightmare to own as a DIY car.

An oil change is probably all you can do realistically. Even changing spark plugs and coils is a nightmare.

I would consider owning a 911 as a DIY car. not a Cayman or a Boxster.

You can actually get access to the top, the panel is removable (at least on the earlier cars). But you are still right, it would be more work to own than the BMW's.

I was looking at some of the DIY's for a 997TT and some of them looked like a nightmare (plug and coils being one of them)

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by m235i

I have not owned a 991 but the reliability of the Porsche's I have owned has been pretty good and in most cases better than BMW.

This is along the lines of what I have heard as well - with that being said, I have had mostly good luck (knock on wood) with all of my BMWs, and when something has gone wrong, my local dealers have typically figured it out pretty quickly.

This would actually matter more to me in this potential situation, because I am thinking I would just buy the thing if I am going to spend 1K a month in payments.

Originally Posted by W///

You don't have to be, but I guess it depends on the dealership. The one locally are super nice and they let me test drive multiple Boxster/Cayman as well as a $125k C4S.

As for the Caymans, I'm a huge fan of them as I said before. One of my favorite cars out there, but they are just too expensive new. The M2 just works better for me at low $50k's. If it came down to it, I'd also be able to make a low optioned M3 work as well.

But I've never been able to spec out a Cayman S for under $70k. I've driven a base Cayman and like it, but I think for the price, I'd rather go M2.

Price-wise, the M2 is definitely going to be the "better buy" in terms of what performance you are getting at that price point. I think I might have spoiled my own experience by getting the 235 and not liking it very much - I indeed have high hopes for the M2, but I can't imagine that it would be on par with what I was driving yesterday.

As far as the dealer goes, it makes sense for them to want you to drive stuff - they let me drive the Cayman twice, and told me to come back as many times as I needed - I mean, it is a 70, 80 or whatever purchase. It works to their benefit for people to get comfortable with how each car feels. I am glad they were cool to me yesterday.