[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Y0tsuya

Them's fightin' words!

I'm sure many MT drivers here would agree that there's not much difference in effort driving in heavy traffic between MT and AT. Once you're used to it it's all just muscle memory.

If you are in stop and go traffic an hour+ to work and then an hour+ from work everyday then I suppose there is a small difference, but I would feel sorry for myself and for my car ))) I've been driving manuals for 10+ years and have zero issues driving them. Plus manual transmission in M235i is really nice, and I am coming from driving S2000 for last 5 years

[Tpeterson]

Originally Posted by Rayscott

Wow, I learned more about these 2 series in this post than all the months of reading reviews and car mags. Nothing better than getting real world experience and I really appreciate all the great input. I will be 74 when I get one of these so it is at the top of my "Bucket List".

If it's a bucket list thing get the M235i.

[pz619]

Also came from a S2000. Definitely recommend driving both. 228i will likely have the same-ish straight line speed. I think where these cars will lack is driving dynamics compared to the S. Honestly, it's just not as good. But there are pluses! For starters, it's way more comfortable. The torque on the m235i is intoxicating as well.

I voted the M235i with my money. Although, if you don't need the raw power, like better mpg, and like to keep a little extra spending cash in the wallet than 228i can be a great choice. Drive both though, you'll know afterwards.

[RoundelM3]

Originally Posted by Y0tsuya

Them's fightin' words!

I'm sure many MT drivers here would agree that there's not much difference in effort driving in heavy traffic between MT and AT. Once you're used to it it's all just muscle memory.

Really...so you can work that clutch back and forth for over an hour or more and there's "not much difference in effort"? Especially if you're a small-framed female? Not sure which planet you're on, but it can't be the same one I've been driving on for 50 years. Even my left leg used to start to ache after about 30 minutes of clutching and de-clutching to move from a dead stop every 10 seconds in first gear. Not at all the same thing as going through the gears on a track.

While we both enjoyed our 6-speed previous cars when we lived where there wasn't quite so much traffic congestion (we have bridges and causeway to cross when going to and from downtown here), they're just not practical in our location. If all you're going to use the car for is road (non-traffic) or track driving, sure, a 6-speed is fine. Just not for commuting to and from work in stop-and-go traffic.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by roundel335

Really...so you can work that clutch back and forth for over an hour or more and there's "not much difference in effort"? Especially if you're a small-framed female? Not sure which planet you're on, but it can't be the same one I've been driving on for 50 years. Even my left leg used to start to ache after about 30 minutes of clutching and de-clutching to move from a dead stop every 10 seconds in first gear. Not at all the same thing as going through the gears on a track.

While we both enjoyed our 6-speed previous cars when we lived where there wasn't quite so much traffic congestion (we have bridges and causeway to cross when going to and from downtown here), they're just not practical in our location. If all you're going to use the car for is road (non-traffic) or track driving, sure, a 6-speed is fine. Just not for commuting to and from work in stop-and-go traffic.

Commuting in stop and go daily in BMW is not that great either. Not only it defeats the purpose of everything BMW stands for, but it also builds up that carbon in DI engines on much faster rate.

[Rayscott]

Originally Posted by pz619

Also came from a S2000. Definitely recommend driving both. 228i will likely have the same-ish straight line speed. I think where these cars will lack is driving dynamics compared to the S. Honestly, it's just not as good. But there are pluses! For starters, it's way more comfortable. The torque on the m235i is intoxicating as well.

I voted the M235i with my money. Although, if you don't need the raw power, like better mpg, and like to keep a little extra spending cash in the wallet than 228i can be a great choice. Drive both though, you'll know afterwards.

A friend of mine just got a sales job at my BMW dealer. I will be contacting him for a couple of test drives.

[Y0tsuya]

Originally Posted by roundel335

Really...so you can work that clutch back and forth for over an hour or more and there's "not much difference in effort"? Especially if you're a small-framed female? Not sure which planet you're on, but it can't be the same one I've been driving on for 50 years. Even my left leg used to start to ache after about 30 minutes of clutching and de-clutching to move from a dead stop every 10 seconds in first gear. Not at all the same thing as going through the gears on a track.

While we both enjoyed our 6-speed previous cars when we lived where there wasn't quite so much traffic congestion (we have bridges and causeway to cross when going to and from downtown here), they're just not practical in our location. If all you're going to use the car for is road (non-traffic) or track driving, sure, a 6-speed is fine. Just not for commuting to and from work in stop-and-go traffic.

BMW clutches are actually pretty easy to work. They're not truck clutches. And small-framed females have no trouble working the clutch. They've been doing it for many decades when MT was "standard transmission".

I'm in one of the worst regions in the US (SF Bay Area) and am stuck in stop-and-go commute everyday for 15~30min even when I avoid rush hour. During rush hour it's easily over an hour. My legs don't get tired. It's more about getting frustrated and that's the same in MT as in AT. But that's just me. Been driving for 30 yrs. Sure if I'm 20yrs older like you and knees are giving out I'd go with AT. But for now MT works fine even in traffic. I consider the slight increase in effort, if any, a nice exercise. And when the traffic clears up, it's a blast.

[Rayscott]

My neighbor who owns a 4 cyl 4 series stopped at our local BMW dealer and took a test drive in the M235i with a young guy who is their product mgr. My neighbor said the guy races BMW's and the test drive was eye opening. The guy drove first and showed my friend the capabilities of the car then let him drive and he couldn't believe the difference between his 4 series and this car. He was planning to order the M2 but now is considering the M235 or the M240. I am going to hook up with this guy and get him to take me out in the 228i and M235i. I think that is better than going out with a salesman. Your thoughts.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Since your specifically comparing vert to vert - I would recommend the M235.

The 228 coupe is a pretty light car around 3300 lbs. You take a ~300lb weight penalty with the convertible top, so you've always got ~2 extra passengers with you at all times. The extra power of the straight 6 helps to make up for that and as mentioned, it sounds much much better when the top is down and you get to open it up. That alone is worth it to me.

This! If you're going RWD coupe, the 228i is mighty quick and fun when spec'd with all the handling options but add the 'vert weight and it slows down too much for my taste.

As has been mentioned, make sure to read up on the 230i and 240i coming soon. At this point I wouldn't get a 2016 unless I got a screaming deal.

[BimmerLOVER1234]

Test Drive the 228i hard for 10 minutes. After that , when the engine idles at 600-700rpm, the vibration be felt in the seat and the steering wheel. quite an unrefined engine, unlike the inline sixes. I found this pretty unbearable. In fact i even approached my workshop to ask if they could make it idle at 750 instead, where vibration was far less. they told me its not possible.

In the end, sounds like your just looking for something fun and practical, the 228i should be good enough if your able to put up with this and the lack of a good engine note. I guess better MPG is a plus.

However, if your priority is power, tuning headroom and the overall feel, the m235i is a better car for not that much more. Like some others have mentioned the 240i is coming and if possible you could even wait for that. I got a 228i 3 months ago, and am already planning to swap as it just dosen't feel powerful enough even with a tune and full bolt ons.

My vote goes to the m235i/m240i

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by BimmerLOVER1234

Test Drive the 228i hard for 10 minutes. After that , when the engine idles at 600-700rpm, the vibration be felt in the seat and the steering wheel.

Sorry to read you're having this experience. Not sure what engine calibration is for Singapore, but I have had none of these issues. It would be disconcerting if my car did the same as yours.

[Steven1077]

I'd always go for the M240i with a vert for the torque more than anything, the 228/230 just isn't as effortless at lower revs

[Rayscott]

I'm set on a vert. Live at the beach and we love driving with the top down. Since I am about a year and a half away the 240i might be the best choice. As mentioned before the test drive will clear up a lot of uncertainty. Thanks.

[BimmerLOVER1234]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Sorry to read you're having this experience. Not sure what engine calibration is for Singapore, but I have had none of these issues. It would be disconcerting if my car did the same as yours.

I think the issue is there for you too and all N20 powered cars, Perhaps its not enough to bother you. I feel its more obvious in the 228i. THe n20 sounds like diesel after-all as well which other owners i have spoken too are annoyed by. i tested a 328 and 528 and the annoying vibration was there too at specific rpms just to make sure. I Literally WALKED into the BMW showroom here, and ASKED them to let me compare to other N20 cars. during this, EVEN the 528 vibrated on the steering wheel when going from 1250 rpm -1400 rpm, ugh not expected from a "premium engine" for me at least. Maybe your just not so sensitive to these things. I'm ULTRA sensitive about such things. Most other drivers that have used my car don't notice it but face is. some users do demand perfection and i think its good to share this with potential owners.

Perhaps calibration could be different for the idle rpm, since the seat vibration is not there above 730 rpm idle, but the 1250-1400 rough spot is always there regardless.

One things for sure. i've spoken to 328i, 428i owners and 228i owners from the local cars and coffee. and almost everyone i know has regretted like me, not going for the N55.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by BimmerLOVER1234

I think the issue is there for you too and all N20 powered cars, Perhaps its not enough to bother you. I feel its more obvious in the 228i. THe n20 sounds like diesel after-all as well which other owners i have spoken too are annoyed by. i tested a 328 and 528 and the annoying vibration was there too at specific rpms just to make sure. I Literally WALKED into the BMW showroom here, and ASKED them to let me compare to other N20 cars. during this, EVEN the 528 vibrated on the steering wheel when going from 1250 rpm -1400 rpm, ugh not expected from a "premium engine" for me at least. Maybe your just not so sensitive to these things. I'm ULTRA sensitive about such things. Most other drivers that have used my car don't notice it but face is. some users do demand perfection and i think its good to share this with potential owners.

Perhaps calibration could be different for the idle rpm, since the seat vibration is not there above 730 rpm idle, but the 1250-1400 rough spot is always there regardless.

One things for sure. i've spoken to 328i, 428i owners and 228i owners from the local cars and coffee. and almost everyone i know has regretted like me, not going for the N55.

You raise a reasonable theory, as I have used the same lack of sensitivity to possibly explain why 235i or XDrive owners can't feel the difference in steering feel, feedback, or nimbleness of the additional weight and mechanicals at the front end. I'm not sure it applies as much, given my history with another vehicle manufacturer doing development ride/drives of mules to early builds, assessing NVH, among other attributes before volume production started. OTOH, that was years ago before I retired so maybe some sensitivity was lost. Also, at those elevated rpms above idle (where I sincerely do not have steering wheel nor seat cushion vibration), I have one hand on the stick, so the input would be less than yours and competing for sensation with the gearshift lever. I will pay more attention to those specific engine speeds in the next few days, but I will need to, as they haven't made themselves as obvious to me as you experience. Since retiring, I must admit my vigilance may be less than before.

All in all, the lack of regrets results from test driving both and making a considered choice to build one to spec. I do not care about engine sound, personally; the radio is always on Sirius, the AC is running, and I'm inside with the windows up. The additional performance can't be exploited often in my daily environment, and I don't track, so quite satisfied and staying alert to remain below triple digits on the highway commute. I could get in plenty of trouble with the N20. I respect the opinions of your colleagues, but must realize the multiple biases in asking for and taking their opinions as generally representative of all 2 Series owners.

[Kiwi]

I don't understand the reason anyone would put extra dollars down for a 240i convertible. Its a cruising machine with top down enjoying the fresh air and surroundings not ripping around corners and leaving rubber on the road.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Kiwi

I don't understand the reason anyone would put extra dollars down for a 240i convertible. Its a cruising machine with top down enjoying the fresh air and surroundings not ripping around corners and leaving rubber on the road.

Not sure I follow that logic - the 235/240 are extremely capable, to treat it like a luxo-barge for cruising is fine, but my M235i vert is much more fun on back roads than my 335i was - a little extra chassis jiggle does not ruin the handling of the car and you get to actually hear the engine rev to 7k without the fake stereo noise in the way.

[internetguru]

Originally Posted by Kiwi

I don't understand the reason anyone would put extra dollars down for a 240i convertible. Its a cruising machine with top down enjoying the fresh air and surroundings not ripping around corners and leaving rubber on the road.

Driving around in a C7 vert makes everything else I drive feel slow. The M235i vert while not feeling super fast, it does feel very quick, agile and something I can live with. The 228i vert was not zippy enough for me. I was more than happy to throw more money on the fire to get more HP. As sick as it sounds when the M240i's get here after I test drive one we will see if I need to make a deal for a new one or I can live with the M235i... I am guessing that the M240i vert will not be enough extra HP to motivate me to change.

I suppose if your other car was a commuter box it would not be an issue.

I would guess that others here who drive four second or faster 0-60 cars need as much horsepower as possible or things feel slow.