[silverstone_ttlz4]

A bit soon for this probably, but what is the ordering process like? I have a lease due to end in February and intend to buy a 228i as my next car. I'd contacted dealers a week or two ago to see what they'd say (knowing that the car hadn't been shown and prices not revealed), and only one contacted me back saying that they were taking orders.

I'm reluctant to put $1000 down anywhere even if it is refundable without knowing what my end cost is going to be with the dealer. I've read elsewhere that anywhere between $1,200 and $1,800 over invoice is reasonable for a new model? Thoughts on this?

When can we expect invoice/msrp prices for everything?

[F1fletch]

Will we get the HK sound system as an option?

[Ganxxta]

Originally Posted by F1fletch

Will we get the HK sound system as an option?

According to the german optionslist: Yes

Shouldn't be different for the US..

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Technically the B48 is debuting with the new F56 Mini Cooper S although obviously that's in FWD guise and a lower state of tune than a *28i BMW will use.

Right. In this case I specifically meant the F2x line.

That seems somewhat unlikely to me unless the B48 is only to be used in *20i/*25i models at first. But then I'd still expect to see it in the 320i here.

However unlikely it may seem, I see all F30 LCI versions transitioning to B-series engines in Europe, but the US versions are B48 in 320i, N20/26 in 328i, and B58 in 335i.

Why of you think the B58 will only replace the lower output N55

Because that's what I see. 335i LCI - B58B30M0, M135i LCI - N55B30O0. I'm not saying there won't be B58B30O0 or T0, I just don't see them yet, even though the list is full of various other LCIs. Only B58B30M0 in 335i LCI and G11/12 740i.

BTW, from your questions I'm guessing you missed this one: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901686.

[Lucky13]

Did anyone see any information of a launch date for the convertible? I'm going to get a 228 M Sport w/manual but I've owned 5 BMW convertibles and have to make it 6.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

However unlikely it may seem, I see all F30 LCI versions transitioning to B-series engines in Europe, but the US versions are B48 in 320i, N20/26 in 328i, and B58 in 335i.

I guess we'll see. My bet is still that if the N20 is still used for some models then it will be so for those models everywhere they are sold.

Because that's what I see. 335i LCI - B58B30M0, M135i LCI - N55B30O0. I'm not saying there won't be B58B30O0 or T0, I just don't see them yet, even though the list is full of various other LCIs. Only B58B30M0 in 335i LCI and G11/12 740i.

Fair enough. I'm sure you are aware that engines can change up at any time, not just at model introduction or LCI. So, even if things start that way, it doesn't mean they'll be that way for the whole run.

BTW, from your questions I'm guessing you missed this one: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901686.

Interesting information, thanks for sharing. Like the VIN database information (remember the 415hp F82?), its obviously all tentative and subject to change as I'm sure you know since you said:

"- Can you tell me which of these models will come to market, and which ones we'll never see?
- No."

I am not dismissing this of course. Certainly the general engine and model codes are sound. It's a good reference point and certainly something to keep an eye on. So again, thanks for posting.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The new engines will be introduced with the 2er Active Tourer in regards to BMW.

SCOTT, why is the Active Tourer being labeled a 2 Series? Doesn't this somewhat undermine the naming system that BMW has been working to establish?

[Bam226]

Originally Posted by F1fletch

Will we get the HK sound system as an option?

How much better is this system over stock I've never heard it?

[Greenkirby21]

Anyone know if the "M Performance Kit" which was referenced by someone at BMW to be available for the M235i will be at launch? I assumed the LSD would be part of that kit. Not sure what else would be included as part of it? I know the LSD will be available at launch!

Any guesses or assumptions? : )

[Bam226]

Originally Posted by I am Earl

So this sounds like a cheaper 1M, which was basically the same car as 335i in a smaller chassis. Doesn't this sound boring? I mean BMW has been using the same N54/N55 engine for like what 7-8 years now? What happened to innovating? Even the new M3/M4 has the same old 335i engine.

Ya it's old, but man is it awesome

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by I am Earl

Even the new M3/M4 has the same old 335i engine.

It's not the same engine. This has been discussed ad naseum.

[leesat]

has anyone put $5k deposit for the spot?

[Greenkirby21]

Originally Posted by leesat

has anyone put $5k deposit for the spot?

mine was $1,000, refundable. Won't even process the check until the car arrives .

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I guess we'll see. My bet is still that if the N20 is still used for some models then it will be so for those models everywhere they are sold.

The situation with 328i is slightly confusing indeed. EU LCI has it in both versions: B48 and N20. US is N20 only. My guess that we'll keep N20 is based on the comprehensiveness of the list I have. Every single existing version of F30 has its LCI counterpart already, but there's still no US 328i B48.

Fair enough. I'm sure you are aware that engines can change up at any time, not just at model introduction or LCI. So, even if things start that way, it doesn't mean they'll be that way for the whole run.

Based on the evolution of this data and subsequent official introductions, I believe the list I have is the superset of production. Meaning there'll be no production cars that are not on this list about a year ahead of official intro, but some listed cars won't make it past testing stage.

Interesting information, thanks for sharing. Like the VIN database information (remember the 415hp F82?),

Yes, the number was off, but the car exists and is going to have the features just like those dumps showed.

It will actually be interesting to revisit the VIN database when M3/4 goes into production, to see if BMW changed the hp values after the fact.

its obviously all tentative and subject to change as I'm sure you know since you said:

"- Can you tell me which of these models will come to market, and which ones we'll never see?
- No."

I could add this: "Do you think there are other MY2015 models that you haven't listed? - No."

I wish I could explain where my info comes from, it would be much easier to show what kinds of data are available. But you remember how it all worked out when I started talking about my source of VINs. What I have today is pitiful compared to that, I don't want to lose it too. Even though I'm pretty sure it would be much more difficult for BMW to block this one.

[arthur1920]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

BMW M Performance mechanical limited-slip differential available as retrofit option

yeah baby

Retrofit??
after you pay 44K, they want you to spend another 1500. yanking out the rear end and putting a LSD in?

[heavystarch]

Originally Posted by arthur1920

Retrofit??
after you pay 44K, they want you to spend another 1500. yanking out the rear end and putting a LSD in?

It sure would be nice if you could select those as a Factory Installed option.
Seems silly to force the retrofit.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by Neph

That looks so bad that its almost wiped out all the good feelings from the 2er debut.

I agree.....wasn't expecting BMW to start making granny-wagons

I'm really beginning to seriously question the direction BMW are taking.

About time they dropped the Ultimate Driving Machine tag, as 90% of what they are now making isn't deserving of that tag.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Based on the evolution of this data and subsequent official introductions, I believe the list I have is the superset of production.

I'll certainly watch in anticipation to see how things line up and match up.

Yes, the number was off, but the car exists and is going to have the features just like those dumps showed.

Devil is in the details, I supose. To me the number is extremely important. We already knew what to expect from the F8x on a qualitative basis. Heck we even knew the engine code, displacement, etc. Not to diminish the rest, mind you, but the power number was the main piece of info that triggered skepticism in all of that for me, and it appears not to have been misplaced.

I wish I could explain where my info comes from, it would be much easier to show what kinds of data are available. But you remember how it all worked out when I started talking about my source of VINs.

I honestly did not even recognize you as the same member who posted the VIN info. As was the case with that source and as I said before this is definitely relevant info and certainly not to be dismissed or ignored, so I am filing it away for reference.

At a high level my personal thinking is that we'll see the B48 and B58 sweep through the BMW lineup in a fairly whirlwind fashion just as the N20, N55, and N63Tu have in recent times (and still are). Parts commonality is driving the business case and they'll want to get ROI in timely fashion. If there is foot dragging and what appears to us "outsiders" to be strange decisions and inconsistencies then certainly the details you've dug up deserve the focus. If we could learn in advance about situations like we have today with the N54 holding on tightly in the Z4 LCI not just in the 35is model but even the 35i that's certainly a win.

Just as important, perhaps more so, is the power levels and so forth. These things are typically popular questions around the forum. We've seen reports of the potential for up to 133hp/L for the new engine family in regular series cars. I am sure it won't be there initially, especially for the B58, but it is of keen interest to everyone where things land for the first release. There's going to be a degree of disappointment if the standard N55 is replaced with a 300hp B58.

[GFK007]

Originally Posted by Neph

That looks so bad that its almost wiped out all the good feelings from the 2er debut.

Spot on. That thing is hideous. MB R-Class all over again.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

At a high level my personal thinking is that we'll see the B48 and B58 sweep through the BMW lineup in a fairly whirlwind fashion just as the N20, N55, and N63Tu have in recent times (and still are). Parts commonality is driving the business case and they'll want to get ROI in timely fashion. If there is foot dragging and what appears to us "outsiders" to be strange decisions and inconsistencies then certainly the details you've dug up deserve the focus. If we could learn in advance about situations like we have today with the N54 holding on tightly in the Z4 LCI not just in the 35is model but even the 35i that's certainly a win.

It is possible that B-series require more extensive rework than BMW is willing to do out-of-band. New model intros and LCIs are the more attractive points for that, because there's a lot of new engineering outside the engine. If that's the case, we may see some models like F10 and F15 stick with N engines for a while. US 328i is likely a different story: BMW is more cautious about new tech in US cars, so it's possible they just want to burn in the higher output B48 before bringing it here.

Just as important, perhaps more so, is the power levels and so forth. These things are typically popular questions around the forum. We've seen reports of the potential for up to 133hp/L for the new engine family in regular series cars. I am sure it won't be there initially, especially for the B58, but it is of keen interest to everyone where things land for the first release. There's going to be a degree of disappointment if the standard N55 is replaced with a 300hp B58.

On the other hand, it seems BMW no longer cares about power numbers as much as they used to. There's no pressure for them to do so: the market is asking for less pollution and fuel consumption, not more power. Look at all recent model introductions: with the exception of N63Tu, all new cars come with really modest power bumps, but much better mileage and lower weight. I won't be surprised if B engines' focus is also on efficiency and not power.

And here's my evidence. however flimsy (still relying on the old VIN search results, even with that F82 thing, there's nothing better still):

B38B0M0 will be used in the new Mini Cooper and the 316i LCI. Mini Cooper was listed in the VIN database as having 100kW or 134hp. The current 316i is 134hp.

B48B0M0 will go into Cooper S and 320i LCI. Cooper S was listed with 140kW or 189hp, while the 320i has 180hp.

When the new Minis are out in a few weeks, we'll know for sure.

[Ganxxta]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

It is possible that B-series require more extensive rework than BMW is willing to do out-of-band. New model intros and LCIs are the more attractive points for that, because there's a lot of new engineering outside the engine. If that's the case, we may see some models like F10 and F15 stick with N engines for a while. US 328i is likely a different story: BMW is more cautious about new tech in US cars, so it's possible they just want to burn in the higher output B48 before bringing it here.

On the other hand, it seems BMW no longer cares about power numbers as much as they used to. There's no pressure for them to do so: the market is asking for less pollution and fuel consumption, not more power. Look at all recent model introductions: with the exception of N63Tu, all new cars come with really modest power bumps, but much better mileage and lower weight. I won't be surprised if B engines' focus is also on efficiency and not power.

And here's my evidence. however flimsy (still relying on the old VIN search results, even with that F82 thing, there's nothing better still):

B38B0M0 will be used in the new Mini Cooper and the 316i LCI. Mini Cooper was listed in the VIN database as having 100kW or 134hp. The current 316i is 134hp.

B48B0M0 will go into Cooper S and 320i LCI. Cooper S was listed with 140kW or 189hp, while the 320i has 180hp.

When the new Minis are out in a few weeks, we'll know for sure.

Well according to this german article about the new Minis the engines will have following numbers:

B48: 192hp, 280Nm from 1250RPM, 300Nm "Overboost"
B38: 136hp, 220Nm from 1250RPM, 230Nm "Overboost"

Up-to 7% less CO2 emissions, nothing about fuel consumption unfortunately...

[Fugly M3]

are we going to get the alcantara/fabric option on the M235i here?