[hector]

I'm between a 230 and m240 for this fall or winter and hate sunroofs!, but also hate paying for something and not getting it(as would occur by deleting the sunroof on the 240 and receiving no discount. so 2 questions: 1)who actually makes the extra profit due to lower production costs when someone deletes the sunroof; parent BMW or BMWNA(I'm guessing the latter)? and 2) is there anyway to extract some of that money in one's negotiated price for the car? thanks!

[overcoil]

I think your analyzing is skewed in that for a production line if the delete is not 'the ordinary' then that in itself means it may not be an unearned profit for the company. Also as many point out, Porsche and other sportcar manufactured charge more for there hardcore decontented cars.
Strictly, the fact no sunroof glass or labor or electrics means you pay more for less...and its worth negotiating that fact into your offers but don't feel that it is something your due.

[EEBreh]

You should be buying it because there is less stuff to break plus less weight on the car. Most dealers wont negotiate with you because of a sunroof delete.

[jamiey]

In the rest of the world the Sunroof is an option so the production line would be more likely to be without than with...

I like the light it brings into the cabin so I have added it - in the UK it's a £800 option.

(but then leather is standard, as is basic navigation amongst other things)

[hector]

Originally Posted by EEBreh

You should be buying it because there is less stuff to break plus less weight on the car. Most dealers wont negotiate with you because of a sunroof delete.

those ARE the reasons that I don't want it, not to save the money per se, but given that, it seemed to me that even a nominal reduction in price would be reasonable.

[XutvJet]

Yeah, BMW US doesn't look at it that way unfortunately. I helped BMW make a ton of money with the purchase of my M235i with a 6MT and sunroof delete. A 6MT (all parts) is about $5,000 all in (customer pricing). The 8AT is $7,300. A sunroof certainly costs BMW a few hundred bucks. They made out like bandits but I got the car I wanted.

When I was ordering it, my sales advisor said he had never heard of someone specifically ordering a 6MT, sunroof delete, and no NAV M235 at his store. He respected it because he does road racing and saw where I was going with the car. When it showed up, all the male sales advisors loved the way it was optioned and had no idea that you could get one without a sunroof. Yes, BMW made good money on me, but I got the car I wanted with about 40lbs less off the roof and in total weight. I also wanted the head room.

[hector]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Yeah, BMW US doesn't look at it that way unfortunately. I helped BMW make a ton of money with the purchase of my M235i with a 6MT and sunroof delete. A 6MT (all parts) is about $5,000 all in (customer pricing). The 8AT is $7,300. A sunroof certainly costs BMW a few hundred bucks. They made out like bandits but I got the car I wanted.

When I was ordering it, my sales advisor said he had never heard of someone specifically ordering a 6MT, sunroof delete, and no NAV M235 at his store. He respected it because he does road racing and saw where I was going with the car. When it showed up, all the male sales advisors loved the way it was optioned and had no idea that you could get one without a sunroof. Yes, BMW made good money on me, but I got the car I wanted with about 40lbs less off the roof and in total weight. I also wanted the head room.

you and I are totally on the same page my friend!(I'm considering the manual as well; didn't realize there was that much disparity in cost, I would've guessed about $1500 based upon what it USED TO cost, lol, as an option. anyway, I'm happy for you! enjoy! not sure what I'll do when the time comes! 230 w/auto, lol, life could be worse,lol, and I am getting older,lol!

[MikeT]

It's very unusual in the car business for a 'delete' option to involve a credit/discount. Not aware of any manufacturer currently offering something like that.

I get what you're saying about paying for something you're not getting, but the automaker's view is that if you don't want standard equipment, they're doing you a favor in not forcing it on you. In a sense, they're right. I deleted the moonroof on my m235i, and the truth is that I probably would have paid extra to delete it. I'm in the same camp of hating moonroofs. Don't use 'em, don't like 'em, hate the way they ruin the clean look of the roof, don't want the sun on my head, don't want to worry about rattles, leaks, etc. So, yeah, even if they wanted to charge me extra $500 or so to NOT have a moonroof, I'd have gladly paid it.

[Beartato]

Originally Posted by jamiey

In the rest of the world the Sunroof is an option so the production line would be more likely to be without than with...

That's what I was thinking. The roof itself I'm sure is shared between the entire 2 Series line, and at the volume BMW makes these I seriously doubt they gain much, if anything, by someone ordering one without a sunroof.

Another sunroof delete guy here, all dat headroom. I don't mind sunroofs, but in this car for my height the sunroof pushed the headliner to non-helmet fitting levels of space, so the sunroof delete was a must.

[EuroDude]

That's just the way the Germans do it. I have a Porsche Cayman S. Theoretically, a Boxster should cost more because it's a convertible........not in Porsche's book though.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by EuroDude

That's just the way the Germans do it. I have a Porsche Cayman S. Theoretically, a Boxster should cost more because it's a convertible........not in Porsche's book though.

Porsche charges a LOT for deleting stuff, look at the race-spec R. Pay a lot to get less stuff

[BentZero]

Given that robots install the sunroof you're not gonna be able to get any labor costs out of it. if anything you're costing them money for a machine to sit there as your chassis rolls by. I guess you could look up the cost of a replacement sunroof and then request some portion of the retail cost off as a wholesale price discount. :/

That said, figure out your bottom line and go in with that. The dealer isn't gonna give a crap about the fact that you don't want to pay for a non-existent sunroof. Especially if you have to order vs buying something already in stock.

[remedys]

I don't know if the machine sitting would be an issue. The sunroof is a pay option in Canada, along with the auto transmission. I thinking the pricing structure in the US is such that they can get away with charging for things a few customers may not want. The Canadian cars cost so much more than the US ones, they almost have to put the sunroof and trans in as an option.

[MikeT]

Originally Posted by remedys

The Canadian cars cost so much more than the US ones, they almost have to put the sunroof and trans in as an option.

How do you figure? From what I can tell, the m235i starts at around CA$50,000, which would be the exchange-rate equivalent of US$38,000 (substantially less than the US msrp of US$46,000).

[remedys]

You're right, the starting pricing is very close, but the Canadian car has a manual and no sunroof, plus delivery is $1,200 more. I was just looking at the US car vs the CDN one and the option selections are very different. In Canada you can't get Nav without sunroof, they have to be bundled together. The way the packages are though, most m235i's I have seen are close to $60,000, but I guess that could be because they are almost always xdrive here.
Just talking dollars, the cars are more expensive in Canada, but taking the exchange rate into account, there could be a big savings over the US car buying in Canada, could be over $10K depending on options

[ORIGIN M.]

It is called a Moonroof for a reason.

Leave it closed, or if you decide open it to look at the Moon.

[hector]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Yeah, BMW US doesn't look at it that way unfortunately. I helped BMW make a ton of money with the purchase of my M235i with a 6MT and sunroof delete. A 6MT (all parts) is about $5,000 all in (customer pricing). The 8AT is $7,300. A sunroof certainly costs BMW a few hundred bucks. They made out like bandits but I got the car I wanted.

When I was ordering it, my sales advisor said he had never heard of someone specifically ordering a 6MT, sunroof delete, and no NAV M235 at his store. He respected it because he does road racing and saw where I was going with the car. When it showed up, all the male sales advisors loved the way it was optioned and had no idea that you could get one without a sunroof. Yes, BMW made good money on me, but I got the car I wanted with about 40lbs less off the roof and in total weight. I also wanted the head room.

you could have gone for the maximal screwing and tried to delete the power seats

[Poochie]

It's nice that BMW gives you the option to omit the sunroof but I really believe you're short-changing yourself by checking this option. This is a "sporty" car that already weights 3500 pounds and although the handling is good for the streets, there is still too much body roll to classify it as a "track rat.." The only way it would make sense to not get the sunroof is if they threw in a carbon fiber top or some sort of credit for leaving it off the option list.. I say keep the sunroof/moonroof and just leave it close..

[Lucky13]

Two major errors in ths discussion, there is a sliding sun shade so there is Zero sun on your head, there is actually less head room without a sunroof. The glass thickness is probably 1/8th of an inch with the shade open and the glass s flush with the top and with metal you get all all the lining in addition to the metal top. 99% of lower resale value because 99% of people want a sunroof. The entire unit adds about 35 lbs so umnless your a Formula 1 driver this is a meaningless exercise. If you don't want a sunroof that's fine but don't make up shit that's not true.

[MikeT]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Two major errors in ths discussion, there is a sliding sun shade so there is Zero sun on your head, there is actually less head room without a sunroof. The glass thickness is probably 1/8th of an inch with the shade open and the glass s flush with the top and with metal you get all all the lining in addition to the metal top. 99% of lower resale value because 99% of people want a sunroof. The entire unit adds about 35 lbs so umnless your a Formula 1 driver this is a meaningless exercise. If you don't want a sunroof that's fine but don't make up shit that's not true.

Well, yes, of course you can keep the sun shade closed. But if you have the sun shade closed all the time, why even bother?

As to the headroom, though, you're 100% wrong. The issue isn't the thickness of the glass. The fact is that the headliner is lowered by approximately 1"-1.5" to accomodate the moonroof motor/mechanism.

As to 'lower resale value'... it's speculative. Your assertion that 99% of folks want a moonroof is likely more opinion-based than fact-based. The moonroof is optional on the 228i (and on the m235i in some countries). I'd be surprised if 99% folks ordering 228s (m235s in places where it's optional) are opting for moonroofs, but I'm open if anyone has firm statistics. Ultimately, though, I personally couldn't care less about some reduced resale value. I buy my car for ME--for what I want--not for the next guy.

[hector]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

A 6MT (all parts) is about $5,000 all in (customer pricing). The 8AT is $7,300.

my understanding is that both the manual and auto trannys are different units between the 228/230 and M235/240. If I am correct the autos are a Aisin/ZF respectively and the manuals are Getrag/ZF respectively;please correct me if I'm wrong! Would you happen to also know the price/cost difference between the manual and auto trannys in the 228/230?

[Beartato]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Two major errors in ths discussion, there is a sliding sun shade so there is Zero sun on your head, there is actually less head room without a sunroof.

That's not even close to true. Deleting the sunroof adds 1.5-2 inches of headroom, which as a tall guy makes a difference. The M235i I test drove had a sunroof, and the one I bought doesn't; the additional headroom is noticeable.