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      02-12-2017, 03:44 PM   #45
Lucky13
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Just another point, 65% of Porsche sales in the US are SUV's and their sports cars declined in sales in the US in 2016. They don't compete with BMW in cars so I don't know why a Porsche sales guy would have input about BMW prices. Anybody and everybody knows most luxury brands subsidize certain products, GM would be out of business if it didn't sell trucks because they basically lose money on cars.

If you look up retained value actually the Mustang has about the highest retained value of sports cars. They sell a lot and they are popular so people are always looking to buy a used one, a 128 not so much. Car retained values have dropped because the recession meant there was a low supply up until the last 2-3 years and everyone is buying SUV's and trucks now and not cars. BMW was late to the party because they maxed out capacity at the plant in South Carolina and they were just pushing 3 series long after people wanted X3's or the new X1.

Bad news is the M235 isn't going to hold value like a Mustang. Cars are depreciating assets and if you want to lose less you have to buy a cheaper sports car. Its a lot bigger market for a $10K used Mustang than a $35K M235.
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      02-12-2017, 09:47 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky13 View Post
Just another point, 65% of Porsche sales in the US are SUV's and their sports cars declined in sales in the US in 2016. They don't compete with BMW in cars so I don't know why a Porsche sales guy would have input about BMW prices. Anybody and everybody knows most luxury brands subsidize certain products, GM would be out of business if it didn't sell trucks because they basically lose money on cars.

If you look up retained value actually the Mustang has about the highest retained value of sports cars. They sell a lot and they are popular so people are always looking to buy a used one, a 128 not so much. Car retained values have dropped because the recession meant there was a low supply up until the last 2-3 years and everyone is buying SUV's and trucks now and not cars. BMW was late to the party because they maxed out capacity at the plant in South Carolina and they were just pushing 3 series long after people wanted X3's or the new X1.

Bad news is the M235 isn't going to hold value like a Mustang. Cars are depreciating assets and if you want to lose less you have to buy a cheaper sports car. Its a lot bigger market for a $10K used Mustang than a $35K M235.

Could always be worse, I bet your turbo customers are a sad group at trade in time. M235i for driving off the lot. I heard Porsche stopped residulizing some options, is that true?
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      02-12-2017, 09:49 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by v4257 View Post
Fellow 2 series I6 lovers - I've test driven 14 performance vehicles recently - and I have fallen in love with the M235/240x.

Unfortunately - as an aspiring used M235x (cash) buyer - I have the opposite problem. The market is very thin. I'm in Boston and there is 1 car within 100 miles and 5 within 500 miles. Prices are all over the map - with sellers often having unrealistic expectations and taking a while to adjust. For e.g. the 2 cars nearest me: the 2016 (5K miles) wants 49K and the 2015 (25K miles) wants 45K. I've seen cars further away sell for much less - so I know those prices aren't right - but how do I convince the seller?

I'm afraid until more cars come in the market and stable prices emerge - this problem is going to stay with us.

Just buy new and do pcd or Ed. Should not be too far off the mark.
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      02-13-2017, 05:18 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pparana
Quote:
Originally Posted by v4257 View Post
Fellow 2 series I6 lovers - I've test driven 14 performance vehicles recently - and I have fallen in love with the M235/240x.

Unfortunately - as an aspiring used M235x (cash) buyer - I have the opposite problem. The market is very thin. I'm in Boston and there is 1 car within 100 miles and 5 within 500 miles. Prices are all over the map - with sellers often having unrealistic expectations and taking a while to adjust. For e.g. the 2 cars nearest me: the 2016 (5K miles) wants 49K and the 2015 (25K miles) wants 45K. I've seen cars further away sell for much less - so I know those prices aren't right - but how do I convince the seller?

I'm afraid until more cars come in the market and stable prices emerge - this problem is going to stay with us.

Just buy new and do pcd or Ed. Should not be too far off the mark.
You need to wait if you want xDrive for a good price. They just came out Q4 2014 as 2015 models. Those leases haven't started rolling off yet. Nov/Dec your life will be MUCH easier.
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      02-13-2017, 11:46 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
You need to wait if you want xDrive for a good price. They just came out Q4 2014 as 2015 models. Those leases haven't started rolling off yet. Nov/Dec your life will be MUCH easier.
I think you're exactly right.

I can afford to wait as my current vehicle has 0 issues. Till then I am 'enjoying' the process of waiting and watching.

Might just spring for an M2. Love that long beach blue....
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      02-15-2017, 09:05 AM   #50
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TLDR: 2015 prices converging to $35K. 2016 still all over the place


More cars are coming into the market in last few weeks.

2015 model: dealer retail pricing is converging to $35K (no accidents and clear title; ~20K miles or less; options seem to have little impact on price). Less if there are mitigating circumstances like accidents or high miles. Private sales and trade in will be less of course.

2016: still a lot of variation but a good deal for dealer list is 38-39K. Several listing for used 2016s at dealers for 41-43K - but dealers are also blowing out new 2016s that are still in stock for similar price - so only reason to buy used is sparse availability.
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      02-15-2017, 06:26 PM   #51
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Very nice reply - thank you!

Yes, I agree about the change in 2017. There was a news item just the other day about it being a buyer's market right now for used cars.
IM me your number if you still want to sell your car. I might have a buyer in California. He actually upped his offer for my car by 1K.

Also send me a lot of good quality pictures.

I told him about your car and your location. We can work out the transportation.
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      02-15-2017, 08:33 PM   #52
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Don't know about your area but I inquired about buying out my 2014 and was told that it would be around $30k + tax (pretty much residual value). MSRP was around $48.5k so RV is about 63% of MSRP. Did Euro Delivery so I think purchase price was around $42k. For the 36 month lease the total payments are $15.5k. I was expecting it to be worth around $27k at lease end and possibly get a little discount on top to buy it out. Will wait until last payment is made as it's standing at about $30k right now to buy it out.
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      02-20-2017, 12:07 PM   #53
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I just gave my 2015 M235i to a friend who works at an auction facility. If it sells I'll post what it went for.
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      02-28-2017, 12:36 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by bartginger View Post
I just gave my 2015 M235i to a friend who works at an auction facility. If it sells I'll post what it went for.

Update: After three separate auctions, there was only one offer: $32,750. Obviously, I took it.
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      03-02-2017, 06:02 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartginger View Post
Update: After three separate auctions, there was only one offer: $32,750. Obviously, I took it.
Based on my research - that's a fair auction price.

Car will probably be listed for 35-36. But the dealer will have to detail it, market it and potentially wait 3-6 months for a sale to happen.....
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      03-05-2017, 09:17 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by bartginger View Post
Update: After three separate auctions, there was only one offer: $32,750. Obviously, I took it.
Update No. 2: I was informed that the buyer was a BMW dealership in the Bay Area (Northern California).
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      03-06-2017, 08:26 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by bartginger View Post
Update: After three separate auctions, there was only one offer: $32,750. Obviously, I took it.
So a car with an msrp of prob. 45k sold for 72% of its original value at 2.5 years old, wholesale?

If you got an average discount your car sold for 77-78% of what you paid less tax.

I do not know what world that is horrible depreciation on a car.
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      03-06-2017, 08:59 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Pparana View Post
So a car with an msrp of prob. 45k sold for 72% of its original value at 2.5 years old, wholesale?

If you got an average discount your car sold for 77-78% of what you paid less tax.

I do not know what world that is horrible depreciation on a car.
Thats not terrible

If BMW continues to do well in terms of reliability/JD power AND the 2 series, particularly the M240 demonstrate a low rate of issues.....AND M2 avail continues to be challenging I think these cars will do better in coming year/two wrt value retension.......it also means msrp may go up
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      03-06-2017, 09:32 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Pparana View Post
So a car with an msrp of prob. 45k sold for 72% of its original value at 2.5 years old, wholesale?

If you got an average discount your car sold for 77-78% of what you paid less tax.

I do not know what world that is horrible depreciation on a car.
I bought the car in July 2015 and I paid $47,000 with tax and license. After the costs and fees are deducted for the auction, I will end up with about $31,500. That's a drop of almost exactly one-third in just a year and a half. That to me is serious depreciation. Have a great day!
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      03-06-2017, 10:55 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by bartginger View Post
I bought the car in July 2015 and I paid $47,000 with tax and license. After the costs and fees are deducted for the auction, I will end up with about $31,500. That's a drop of almost exactly one-third in just a year and a half. That to me is serious depreciation. Have a great day!

Yes I will agree your cost of ownership was extreme, at about 950 a month, however 7.5% or about 3k there is tax, that is not deprecation. You also bought a 15 at the end of the model year at msrp or close to it. Not that there is anything wrong with that, CA market is stonger than everwhere else, it is the just the timing hurt you on this one on both ends.

My 15 has 18k on it and would probably fetch close to the same as yours at auction, and I had since 10/14.

Most new cars depreciate 25-30% of MSRP year one, years 2-5 are about another 30-35% total (loaded towards the front).

So your 18 months is the some of worst, and truthfully not that bad from the figures you gave. I know it sucks, but could have been worse.
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      03-06-2017, 03:47 PM   #61
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Silver lining: my next car is an M2 and it is built and waiting for a ship at Bremerhaven right now. Hard to regret the past when the future looks so promising!
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      03-06-2017, 04:18 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by bartginger
Silver lining: my next car is an M2 and it is built and waiting for a ship at Bremerhaven right now. Hard to regret the past when the future looks so promising!
Welcome to the land of first world rich people problems. It's nice here, enjoy your stay
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      03-06-2017, 04:36 PM   #63
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I prefer to keep my cars a long time so things work out better. Bought a loaded 335i in 2007 for $43K. Sold it 10 years later for $12K. That's $258 month "straight-line" depreciation. I pay cash for my cars so financing fees are not part of the equation. Buying new and trading every couple of years will keep you poor. I also take outstanding care of my cars and sell them privately with complete records. Great cars get top dollar to an educated buyer. Just picked up a new M240i to start the cycle again. Nice car...
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      03-06-2017, 06:37 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartginger View Post
I bought the car in July 2015 and I paid $47,000 with tax and license. After the costs and fees are deducted for the auction, I will end up with about $31,500. That's a drop of almost exactly one-third in just a year and a half. That to me is serious depreciation. Have a great day!
Obviously you are not familiar with the car market in the USA. Sedan and coupe sales for all manufacturers were down double digit last year and ytd. People are buying SUV's and Trucks and the average discounts are over $3500 off retail even on strong categories. BMW residuals are probably at least average regarding sedans and coupes. An auction is your guideline for value really? Dealers buy at auction to turn around and sell for retail, you sold at wholesale not retail. Yes any car driven off the lot take 20% off unless your a dealer, 20% depreciation in a year is normal and 30-35% after 2 is normal.
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      03-06-2017, 06:50 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Lucky13 View Post
Obviously you are not familiar with the car market in the USA. Sedan and coupe sales for all manufacturers were down double digit last year and ytd. People are buying SUV's and Trucks and the average discounts are over $3500 off retail even on strong categories. BMW residuals are probably at least average regarding sedans and coupes. An auction is your guideline for value really? Dealers buy at auction to turn around and sell for retail, you sold at wholesale not retail. Yes any car driven off the lot take 20% off unless your a dealer, 20% depreciation in a year is normal and 30-35% after 2 is normal.
An auction was my "guideline for value" for the following reasons. I tried to sell the car privately (on this site, Ebay, and BMW CCA) for almost two months and the highest offer I ever got was $30,000. CarMax also offered me $30,000. For me, the $31,500 I will net after the auction was by far the highest offer I had received, so I took it.

My point is, when a dealer is willing to pay more for the car than private buyers are, something is "askew." There just seemed to be very little interest in the car at all, regardless of price. I had dropped the asking price to $35,000 in the final two weeks, which I assume is less than or similar to what a dealership would ask for it, and there were still no bites.

Last edited by bartginger; 03-06-2017 at 07:20 PM.. Reason: Additional thoughts.
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      03-06-2017, 08:57 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartginger View Post
I bought the car in July 2015 and I paid $47,000 with tax and license. After the costs and fees are deducted for the auction, I will end up with about $31,500. That's a drop of almost exactly one-third in just a year and a half. That to me is serious depreciation. Have a great day!
Sounds like you didn't get much off sticker. What was MSRP + destination, $45145? That's part of the big hit. And having the manual may have actually helped appeal to the purists. I know originally, I was only planning on adding HK sound and heated seats, but in the end, I caved and added leather and navigation. I can do without all the BS driver assists however.
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